1999 Voyager - raising engine results

family affair

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This is step 1 of maybe 2 in the quest of a better ride. We decided to do this after being frustrated with the poor ride characteristics of this hull and the configuration we have: single 225, no hard top, no second fuel tank. As for the ride issues, this is what we were experiencing:

- Unless heavily tabbed, the boat would constantly porpoise at cruise speed.
- In 2 ft chop with 4 adults on board the bow would ride high, porpoise constantly and pound unless fully tabbed down with the engine trimmed almost fully down.
* What was even more frustrating was watching numerous 20ft ish boats run the same water consistently flat with little movement and no pounding.

Grady customer service was perplexed by our complaint and did not think it had anything to do with freshwater operation. The only idea they could offer was to try a brand new prop like the one we already had. The speed vs. rpm of our prop was very close Grady's factory test #'s, so I was reluctant to go this route. Yes it is the factory Yamaha prop.

Ken at Prop Gods had never experienced a prop causing the issue I described. He thought the culprit might be fresh water and the engine being mounted too low. At the factory mounting height at WOT, the cavitation plate was buried. We moved up one hole (no more to go) and the plate is still under water at WOT and not exposed per Ken's recommendation. The boat did seem to run flatter in the chop and did not porpoise, but we only had 2 adults on board. I finally had some satisfaction knowing the boat would run as stable as the 20 ft Bayliner with 4 adults aboard running next to me! :praise

I think going higher with the engine is out of the question. I am not going to drill new mounting holes to go higher. The only other option is try a 4 blade, but I would hate to drop $500 to find out I gained nothing. Another option might be to add ballast to the bow.

Anyone out there got a better idea?
 

Curmudgeon

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What is the WOT range for your engine, what is the actual, what is the make model of the engine, what is the shaft length? Engine mounting holes have been standard for a great many years, there's something else amiss ... :?:
 

VeroWing

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Where is the cavitation plate in relation to hull bottom directly in front of it? "Rule of thumb" is cav plate even - 1/2" higher if mounted directly on transom, and up 1" for every 1' back from transom if mounted on bracket. If you are not close to these measurements you should probably try to be. Once you are certain height is in the right area, then run and find rpms at wot and see if they match manufacturers specs. Normally a 4 blade will give better grip and out of hole shot, but slightly less top speed. You would normally drop 1" of pitch for a 4blade over a 3. You would also normally drop 1" of pitch going from aluminum to stainless steel material too. You can determine what prop you need by using numbers you have with existing prop. I do believe that some Gradys did indeed had ballast material up in the bow from the factory.

You can buy a new aluminum 4 blade prop for around $100-150, I'm pretty sure. I'm not a big fan, but some others say that hydrofoils help to stop porpoising.

Here is one of many guides to selecting a prop. http://www.mercurymarine.com/propellers/prop-selector/#
 

gradywhite248

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I have the same boat same year.. I have the Yamaha 250 and have been happy with ride and performance. does take quite a lot of power to get on plain but bow does come down quickly with engine trim. Tabs also help to stabilize the ride. I normally have 4-5 people on board. three blade installed.
 

Curmudgeon

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"Rule of thumb" is cav plate even - 1/2" higher if mounted directly on transom, and up 1" for every 1' back from transom if mounted on bracket.

:uhm I always thought of that rule as the initial mounting, which is moot for the OP. His plate is buried when mounted as high as possible. Something else amiss, here, the motor isn't generating enough torque to hold the bow up ...
 

VeroWing

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Curmudgeon said:
"Rule of thumb" is cav plate even - 1/2" higher if mounted directly on transom, and up 1" for every 1' back from transom if mounted on bracket.

:uhm I always thought of that rule as the initial mounting, which is moot for the OP. His plate is buried when mounted as high as possible. Something else amiss, here, the motor isn't generating enough torque to hold the bow up ...


You need to read what you are writing. "Rule of thumb" does mean "an initial mounting point" as you state, AND the first place you would look when having porpoising problems, and is not a moot point. What in OPs statement tells you that this "rule of thumb" has been checked to be OK? Just because OP states that engine is mounted in top hole doesn't tell anyone that leg of outdrive may still be too deep in water. There may very well be a problem other than cav plate location, but I stand by what I stated as a possible cause for OPs problem. There is an orderly system of steps that need to be followed to get directly to the flaw in the setup.
 

wahoo33417

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Does seem like something else is going on here. This boat is available with twins or single engine. My experience is that, with a single engine, the cabin model of this hull is a tad nose heavy. That's the opposite of what the OP experiences. Also, having the engine mounted too low would seem to have the effect of adding drag to the engine, further bringing the nose down.

Maybe this is a weak and heavy 225 that can't get itself over the hump to bring the nose down? Some speed and rpm numbers might help answer that.
 

family affair

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This is the original engine rigged by the factory. I achieve 5500 RPM's WOT and actually have a slightly better top end speed compared to what Grady got in salt water: our result 45mph (GPS) at 5500rpm vs 43mph and 5500rpm. W/ 4 adults this boat doesn't jump on plane, but it is far from being a dog. I don't think power is an issue. Again, my results across the RPM range are very close to GW's.

I haven't measured recently where the cavitation plate is in relation to the hull, so I don't recall. Again this boat was rigged at the factory to the factory specs... unless someone drilled the holes in the wrong spot!

I have thought about trying an AL 4 blade, especially considering I don't have a spare. Currently I am running a 15 1/4 x 17. Ken at PG's did mention that if my prop is still buried, a 4 blade won't help much.

Grady White 248, I have to run the engine trimmed ~3 bars from full down and full tabs to get a good ride w/ 4 adults. Where do you run your engine? Any idea how close you are to full down on the tabs? Have you ever stuck your head over the back of the boat to see where the cavitation plate is?
 

VeroWing

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family affair said:
This is the original engine rigged by the factory. I achieve 5500 RPM's WOT and actually have a slightly better top end speed compared to what Grady got in salt water: our result 45mph (GPS) at 5500rpm vs 43mph and 5500rpm. W/ 4 adults this boat doesn't jump on plane, but it is far from being a dog. I don't think power is an issue. Again, my results across the RPM range are very close to GW's.

I haven't measured recently where the cavitation plate is in relation to the hull, so I don't recall. Again this boat was rigged at the factory to the factory specs... unless someone drilled the holes in the wrong spot!

I have thought about trying an AL 4 blade, especially considering I don't have a spare. Currently I am running a 15 1/4 x 17. Ken at PG's did mention that if my prop is still buried, a 4 blade won't help much.

Grady White 248, I have to run the engine trimmed ~3 bars from full down and full tabs to get a good ride w/ 4 adults. Where do you run your engine? Any idea how close you are to full down on the tabs? Have you ever stuck your head over the back of the boat to see where the cavitation plate is?

Running those numbers, Curmudeon and Wahoo are probably correct in stating something else is most likely going on other than engine height.
 

gw204

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That boat takes a 30" motor so we can toss out the idea of there being an XXL where an XL should be....unless for some screwy reason someone put a 5" extension on. Stranger things have happened...

I think in '99 Grady was still allowing dealers to install whatever power they wanted so it's possible the dealer botched the install. The dealer should have a jig to make hole drilling fool proof, but that implies the installer isn't careless about jig placement.

From what I can see of others online, the running bottom of the hull stops short of the transom. So you essentially have a bracket boat and every single bracketed Grady I've seen/analyzed has the motor mounted too low from the factory/dealer. Even if you are in the "right" spot per Grady, I bet it's still too low. Can you post of pic of the boat out of the water, engine trimmed down and a straight edge held up to the bottom and extending out to the engine? You might need a simple static jack plate to get the motor up a bit more.

Has the fuel tank ever been replaced? Maybe you have one that doesn't meet specs and lack of baffles are allowing fuel to slosh fore and aft.

How does she sit at rest? Bow up or pretty level?
 

Curmudgeon

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What in OPs statement tells you that this "rule of thumb" has been checked to be OK?

Revised: We have a disagreement based on comprehension of the problem. I'm still betting there's something he's missing, motor mounting is pretty much 'plug and play' within a hole, maybe two. He won't get 5500 and expected speed if it's too deep, the plate will be readily visible if it's too high, and full trim to eliminate porpoise makes no sense regardless of mounting position ...
 

bayrat

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wahoo33417 said:
Does seem like something else is going on here. This boat is available with twins or single engine. My experience is that, with a single engine, the cabin model of this hull is a tad nose heavy. That's the opposite of what the OP experiences. Also, having the engine mounted too low would seem to have the effect of adding drag to the engine, further bringing the nose down.

Maybe this is a weak and heavy 225 that can't get itself over the hump to bring the nose down? Some speed and rpm numbers might help answer that.

Yep..something else going on. Do you have a bracket? Is it full of water ?
 

magicalbill

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I thought the same thing as Bayrat.

My 232 Gulfstream porpoised a lot in 2013 and Grady customer service determined I had a bracket full of water which indeed was the case. We drained the water out..problem solved.
 

wahoo33417

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Family: Run a straight edge from the bottom of the hull, just below the drain plug to the anti-cavitation plate on the outboard. If those two line up, I suspect the engine mounting is good, or at least doesn't account for the problem. Certainly isn't engine power, from your numbers.

Beyond that, I'm at a loss. I run my boat with the engine trimmed up quite a bit in order to keep the bow up.

Your boat does have a notched transom which provides less buoyancy at the stern. I'm beginning to wonder if that is just how this boat rides with the weight of an F225.
 

The_Chain

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is it possible for you to post a pick of where, what holes your engine is mounted...im beginning to think my engine is to high. I only have three trim bars on the gauge from the bottom before my prop washes out, the previous owner has in on the third hole, ie there's one last more higher position...prop is 17, RMPS seems good. My ox66 sits on a grady bracket.
 

Curmudgeon

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im beginning to think my engine is to high.

Most I've seen are in one of the two middle holes. My last Grady (Springfield bracket) was in the second, the top hole caused ventilation in anything but straight flight. Run it up to speed, and look at the vent plate. If it's just skimming the surface, it's OK, if not on the surface, it's too low. If it's above the surface, try some sweeping turns, if it blows out you're too high. All are 'rule of thumb' observations, mind you, you're results may vary ... :wink:
 

family affair

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Thanks for all the ideas.
The Voyager has a euro transom, no bracket. The transom is dry. The tank is original.
I will get a photo with some measurements, but it likely won't be till the weekend.
 

family affair

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Amongst the furry to get in the water and under way, I didn't get any measurements or photos. I did however have the chance to run with 3 adults about 20 miles round trip through about 1.5 ft chop following and 2 ft chop head. With the engine trimmed 3 bars from full down and no tabs, the boat performed well. It ran flat, no porpoising, and no pounding even when crossing wakes.
I will be installing a Garmin GFS10 fuel meter soon. If I see that I'm burning a lot of fuel to run as I'm set up now, I will make more changes, but so far the ride seems to have improved.

I will still try to get photos in the near future with measurements.
 

family affair

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I don't have measurements, but you can see the bottom of the hull is just above the water intake or about 1.5-2" below the cavitation plate.
 

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