Advice on Modifying Bow Cleat for Mooring

[GradyZ]

I have a 1995 Islander 268. This past tropical storm that came up confirmed that the current configuration is not going to last. See pictures. It appears the pendant lines from the mooring damaged the pulpit as the boat was bouncing due to there only being one central cleat at the base of the pulpit just after the anchor locker... not long after that I was rafted up with a neighbor who has a much bigger boat and one of his dock lines popped off one of the guides that leads to that one bow cleat.

Ive noticed other boats in the field with cleats on either side of the pulpit anchored into the boat (picture with red circles indicate general area I would mount new cleats) which looks like it would make more sense and have better separation. Im thinking of doing the same thing but was wondering if anyone else has done this themselves... would need to pull down the lining in the berth as I think I would also need to install backing plates under the new cleats and not just drill them into the fiberglass and forget it.

Questions -

1) backing plates a neccessity vs just an underside bolt?
2) Is there a difference between an open based cleat and a hollow based cleat?

- reason I ask this I couldnt find a definition and judging by pictures I could not see a significant difference. I need a 6" cleat Im thinking however, need enough clearance off the deck so the thick pendant line can slide through.

Thanks for reading.

 

[seasick]

Open based will work better with spliced loops. Measure you aft cleats and match the size and heft. 6 inch sounds small to me for the lines you should be using. General rule of thumb is 1 inch of cleat for each 1/16 of line diameter. So if you are using 1/2 line, the appropriate cleat would be 8 inches. Now that rule applies to dock cleats that have wrapped lines not looped ones but fatter dock lines need bigger cleats You should use backing plates and they should be heavily bedded with 5200 to insure an even distribution of load

 

[DennisG01]

It kinda looks like your pendant is way too short. Longer lines should make a difference. Think of this... the boat is 25 years old and this is the first time it's suffered this damage? Surely the boat has seen high winds before.

However, the placement of the skene chocks is only mildly helpful. Move them out to those red circles and you don't need to buy new cleats. To the best of my knowledge, though, open base vs hollow base are simply two terms describing the same thing - generic names for Herreshoff cleats.

 

[seasick]

It kinda looks like your pendant is way too short. Longer lines should make a difference. Think of this... the boat is 25 years old and this is the first time it's suffered this damage? Surely the boat has seen high winds before.

However, the placement of the skene chocks is only mildly helpful. Move them out to those red circles and you don't need to buy new cleats. To the best of my knowledge, though, open base vs hollow base are simply two terms describing the same thing - generic names for Herreshoff cleats.

I was unsure what the terms hollow base versus open base meant so i did some searching and I wasn't able to find clear examples of hollow versus open base cleats. It seems that in general as long as there is space on the bottom to slip a line though, it is an open or hollow cleat. It wasn't until I searched for closed base cleats that the difference was obvious. Closed base cleats don't have an opening in the base. Lines cab only be wrapped and not pulled through and wrapped. Learn something new every day.
Here is an example

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[GradyZ]

Thanks everyone so far for the advice. Im going out today consider all of them.

Ill measure the mid and aft cleats first for a guide for any new cleats but I have to say I like the idea of mounting new guides in those spots on either side of the bow instead. The pendant lines are 10 foot lines which I think are ample. The previous two owners had the boat in a slip in well protected areas so go figure...

Whether I do new cleats or guides I still need to assess if Ill have access to where the screws would exit the bottom of the fiberglass so I can reinforce with mounting plates or washers. Hoping its as easy as reaching into the ceiling of that anchor locker.

Cheers

 

[DennisG01]

10'? Yeah, that's very short. Starting at the height of your bow, it's a pretty steep angle. It doesn't allow for much play/give in the rope. The way the ropes come (close to) straight down, I can see how that would put a lot of stress on the pulpit - which is quite obvious based on the damage. I would double those lines. Longer lines will allow for a gentler swing back and forth. If they were longer, you wouldn't have had this problem. Still move the chocks, though.

 

[GradyZ]

Roger. The only reason I can think they're 10 then is due to the field being so dense and them packing us in?

 

[DennisG01]

Roger. The only reason I can think they're 10 then is due to the field being so dense and them packing us in?

Oh, they're not your own pendants? I didn't realize that. That very well could be the reason for the shorties. For all of the boats I have had on moorings (coastal Maine) over the years - including family members - we have always made our own (including setting our own anchoring systems). I've had shorter pendants - and definitely causes the boat to swing more wildly. Add in the bouncing the boat will go through with high winds and waves and you can see how that damage would happen.

But... this may all be a moot point if you're not allowed to change the length. With the chocks mounted more outboard, though, that should relieve a lot of the stress on the pulpit - even though it will effectively make the pendant angle a little more steep, still.

 

[SkunkBoat]

I'm confused.Educate me here. I look at those pix and think "the lines from the mooring (ie anchor) should go thru the anchor roller and directly to the cleat".
The chocks are for running dock lines to the cleat...no?

 

[GradyZ]

I'm confused.Educate me here. I look at those pix and think "the lines from the mooring (ie anchor) should go thru the anchor roller and directly to the cleat".
The chocks are for running dock lines to the cleat...no?

honestly I wouldn't know. I ended up putting one through the roller though after losing one of the chocks!