Engine not getting fuel?

[phazzard]

Hi All;
I have a 93 Adventure with Yamaha 150 (2S) of the same vintage. My marina just switched to E10 fuel and I was planning to use most (if not all) of the MBTE fuel left in my 82 gallon tank before refilling. Since my fuel guage shows "out of fuel" with about 20 gallons left in the tank, I planned to use the boat for 2-3 hours and had an emergency 5 gallon supply on board to get closer to finishing the "old" fuel. I must have miscalculated fuel usage because I pumped 65 gallons of E10 into an 82 gallon tank before it ran out the vent.

Once underway, I had the familiar loss of power associated with a clogged fuel filter, so I spun a new (10 micron) on and went on my way. Less than 15 mintes later, THIS filter clogged - uh-oh.

Long story short, apparently the MBTE and E10 mix created a water-filled sludge for fuel. The mechanic suggested I replace the fuel filter with a water separating unit and said he'd pump fuel out from the bottom of the tank until he saw "good" fuel. He did so and luckily I only "lost" 7 gallons of fuel. So I took the boat out with the clean E10, a new water-separating filter, and high hopes. I saw my gas guage reading empty but thought maybe when the mechanic pumped the bad fuel out, he may have hit one of the sender wires, so made a mental note to tell him about it when I got back.

15 mintes out, the motor ran out of fuel and would not restart. There was no fuel in the glass bowl of the fuel filter so this led me to believe the engine was not getting fuel. I got a tow back in and here I sit... Ideas? Is there anything he could have done - easily - that would explain this? He is a qulaity mechanic and only spent 45 minutes installing the filter and pumping out the bad fuel, so it doesn't FEEL like he touched a lot of moving parts. Anyway, he's on the case and will give me a call, but I was wondering if anyone was willing to hazard a guess as to what might be going on. Thanks to all - this is a great forum.

Pete H

 

[richie rich]

Pete, that fuel mix is really bad news...the MTBE and E10 did cause a problem which should have been taken care of when you pumped out the fuel, but unfortunately, the mechanic only went until he saw good fuel.....How do you know that? Sometimes you get pockets of this formation swashing around in the tank...what he thought was goog was not everything. Secondly, if you've been running MTBE until now..(I have no idea how thats possible as its been off the market for a few years now) the MTBE has left a layer of varnish on the insides of your tank....the E10 is a solvent and is now cleaning the varnish off your tank and getting into your entire fuel system and engine.....what's happening to you now is what happened to most people when E10 first came out...this is not going to be an easy task.

Short of replacing or cleaning (not just draining) the existing tanks, you will need to be very diligent on filters changes, both inline and on the engine, and possibly a carb overhaul as the residue gets stuck in there and it ain't coming out on its own. Been there, done that. You should also replace the anti-siphon valves coming off the tank because they are probably gummed up and the little check ball is stuck. Clean out the fuel tank diverter valve, if you have one. The fuel lines, if they are original to the tank/boat should also be changed as they are not designed for E10 and will slowly degrade from the inside. This will be painstaking work until its all gone. Using some additives like Marine Stabil and/or Startron keep the new E10 from going bad, but won't help in the clean up....and too much snake oil in the tanks (heavy duty cleaners) is not good for the engine either. Keep using the freshest fuel if possible. There is no simple way out, but you will have to prod through it and live with some poor performance at times until its all gone, probably through the rest of the season.

 

[LI Grady]

Pete

I wish I could be more positive but its ging to be a real PITA. I know first hand having bought a boat that sat for 4 yrs with MTBE fuel in it (luckily it never had E10 put in). I had a sludge/gel on everything fuel related just from the old MTBE.

My suggestion. Call a fuel polishing company to see if you can salvage the fuel in your tank. They generally filter down to 1 micron so there is a chance then can clean out the E10/MTBE gel.

Have your mechanic go right to your carbs (of injectors) since they are probably clogged up with the gel as well.

 

[Strikezone]

15 mintes out, the motor ran out of fuel and would not restart. There was no fuel in the glass bowl of the fuel filter so this led me to believe the engine was not getting fuel.

Sounds like you have a blockage somewhere upstream from the filter. I would guess the goo has totally blocked your fuel flow.

 

[BobP]

The fuel pickup in the tank and/or antisiphon valve may be clogged, you can remove the antisiphon valve and use a regular fitting until the fuel condition clears, but the pickup may be welded in place, or it may screw out, if so, it's a long tube with a screen filter in the tip. It un-threads if so, clean it out. The antisiphon valve looks like a regular hose fitting but has a spring loaded ball built into it.

The alcohol is cleaning (scrubing) your gas tank, and also collecting and combining with heavy water that stays on the bottom usually, so called phase seperation.

See if you can get the tube out, and valve out, then repeat the process.

You can hire a mobile processor to come and clean up your fuel. As far as the tank cleanliness goes, that will take a while until the scale is cleaned out. If you get the tube out go ahead and remove the screen so it doesn't clog again.

 

[phazzard]

Hey guys - thanks for all the input. Very helpful. the mystery DOES seem to be how the first tank of E10 could create such an immediate and dramatic mess. I only had 10 gallons left in the tank and consensus was is couldn't be MBTE since I always fill at the marina.

You should see the test fuel he pulled out of the carbs - ouch. Anyway, I'll keep you posted with solution. Mechanic wants to try a couple more cycles through the Racor because what he is seeing there looks good. If we don't see consistent clean fuel after that, it's time to drain the tank and start over again. Wish me luck. This week is the first time we've seen the sun in a month here in the Great White North and it stinks being stuck at the dock. Thanks again for your comments - helps me feel like the mechanic knows what he's doing.

Pete H

 

[richie rich]

The dirty carbs are gonna piss you off for a while...the little passages just won't get clean very easily just through use....best of luck...but I smell a rebuild kit on the horizon.