Gas prices

Ed Bukala

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Hi Everyone
I am a bit surprised at so little conversation falling gas prices has generated on the site. Here in Canada I am expecting to pay 40% - 45% less for gas at our marina compared to last summer, which is huge. I expect to see more boats leaving the docks this summer and actually boating and fishing , a good thing i feel. What are your thoughts out there on this sudden but welcomed change in one of boating's most expensive components.
Bukster
 

Daman858

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Non ethanol 89 octane was $2.28 a gallon here in SC the other day. I just wish I had a giant storage tank so I could stock up before the price goes up again.
 

mboyatt

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The low gas prices are obviously great. Huge difference at the pump in North Carolina. I think the problem is, we all know it wont last. Also troubling is the fact that they are pushing to raise the amount in tax we pay per gallon. Anyway, I have a 200 hp v6 looper that loves the juice. I will take whatever I can get! Will it mean I will use the Grady more often? No. Unfortunately, with work and 3 kids (who all play sports and do other activities) my problem is finding the time to get on the water, not the price of gas. Bummer!
 

DennisG01

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Yeah, for me it's a "cart before the horse", "counting chickens before they're hatched" thing. It's nice to see them falling, and hopefully they continue. But I'm not holding my breath until I actually see the prices this Summer. As soon as demand goes up...
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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I second what mboyatt says. I mark the bulk of my living in the travel and tourism sector and I have noticed an up tick in bookings in my vacation homes and I suspect it is a result of cheaper energy. If there was confidence in the lower prices staying low I think we could see a real economic recovery for Main Street not just Wall Street. I will take the lower prices but I wonder if they wil remain low over the summer when it matters most for my boating time?

This forum is pretty civil and largely not political. I dont want to poison it either. With that said every member here who lives in the states should email and or call there Congresman and or their state representstive and voice their concerns about raising fuel taxes. Energy costs have slowed down our economy as much as anything and now that we are getting some relief at the pump the notion these idiots want to increase costs on us again is insane. I am going to let my state and feds people know where I stand and why and i encourage yall to do the same.
 

Doc Stressor

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OK Bob, so how do you propose to pay for highway and bridge work that is needed after the Highway Trust fund goes negative in a couple of months?

The federal gas tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon and hasn't been increased since 1993. Interestingly, one of the major causes of the decline of the fund is the increased fuel mileage of newer vehicles. Even electric cars use the roads and somebody has to pay for maintenance of the federal highway system.
 

DennisG01

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Doc Stressor said:
Even electric cars use the roads and somebody has to pay for maintenance of the federal highway system.

That's an excellent point - that has never occurred to me. Now that you mention it, I can't believe that hasn't been addressed, yet. Although, I suppose with the current government's agenda/push to try and get us all away from oil, they're probably just "keeping quiet" on that issue so as not to scare people away from buying electric cars. I guess "road taxes" for electrics would have to be tied in somehow to inspections and taxes (year end/IRS) and 'miles driven'?
 

River Rat

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Electric cars pay no fuel tax...by Doc's logic we should add a surtax (in addition to the taxes that we all pay) to electricity delivered to the car pods...why should they get away w/o "paying their share" to the transportation fund?
 

captain swag

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Unfortunatly the price of fuel will be most likely based upon near future demand. Once the kids are out of the schools and parents as well as those that vacation begin their travels, the price will increase. To the poster that mentioned storing up...you can only keep it for so long, even if you stabilize it.
 

mboyatt

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18 cents a gallon in tax does not fully account for what we are taxed. The average fed and state tax is approximately 48 cents a gallon. In my home state, it totals 56 cents in tax. Also, that 18 cents in federal tax generates about 34 Billion annually. Unfortunately, only 60 percent of that goes to roads and bridges. The rest goes to earmarked projects. Although I don't know this for a fact, I bet the Feds are double dipping. What I mean by that, is I am sure they are taxing the oil companies per barrel, then turning around and also taxing the consumer. I am for keeping the federal tax where it has been for decades. Put the 40 percent used in pork projects back into the roads.
 

GreatWhite23

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I was under the impression that OPEC was lowering the price keep the US market unprofitable so we keep buying our oil from them. IE fracking in the north west. As far as increasing federal tax. With the current bleeding of tax dollars out of this country I feel they could start putting funds back into our country to rebuild our infrastructure and education.(just my two cents) Hell we get taxed for flushing the toilette. Fuel goes up and down. When the cost of fuel rises so does our cost of living. When it drops nothing seems to follow then it raises again. :evil: With gas at 2.20 a gallon I have an extra 1000 per month. Gas in boat is 100 less per trip to the stream. No doubt it adds up fast. I am under the impression fuel prices are to stay below 3.00 for the next year. :wink:
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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Doc, I am a reovering environmental planner/biologist and I once did a stint at the Volusia County MPO ( daytona beach area for the folks not from Florida). I see your points quite clearly and the way highways are funded it occurs on a 7 year cycle for projects in the transportation improvement plan (TIP).

The problem is as the costs of fuel increases it takes more money out of the pocket of the poor and middle class. Thus money for travel or running a boat or what ever is shifted to what is needed and the other stuff is cut out. Thus demand for fuel drops because travel takes a hit, fishing takes a hit, camping takes a hit and so on and so on. When gas was $1.80 or so I would trailer my boat to my brothers place in Titusvile and I would fish 3 or 4 times in the spring. Now I fish once in the spring and it is largely due to fuel costs to fish and the fuel costs to drive around my home town to get to work and so forth because my budget does not allow for so many trips. Also when folks travel less here, my income drops too which compounds the effect of me being able to travel to other places. Then think about 30 to 50 million people all making similar choices in the travel behavior because of their financial situation changes. Think about the economic impact of marinas, bait stores, tackle supply places, and on and on when gas is cheaper. The more money those guys make, the more they higher, the more taxes their businesess pay and the more money they have for their own lives The impact of cheaper energy here is significant.

The gas tax is based on consumption and when consumption drops due to high prices, keeping the gas prices does not make since. I say help the economy recover and you will see improved revenue from increases in demand for fuel. Adding more coss to the middle and lower income folks will only keep our economy stagnant. Guys like you and I Doc have to make choices. Guys like Frank here who just bought a brand new Freedom 307 I suspect dont have to make similar choices when it comes to travel and purchasing things. So higher fuel costs impact us all, but as one makes less and less the costs of fuel hits the budget more and more.

Want more revenue, then stimulate demand for a consumption based tax and you do it by making the product affordable and cheap, not by making it more expensive. Art Laffer has that cool little curve about taxes and revenue. There is a sweet spot for taxes and gas taxes that sweet spot is clearly not $3.50 a gallon as evidence by total highway miles traveled is down over the past 5 or 6 years as a direct result of the price of fuel.

If we need more revenue for roads the solution to me is get the economy back on track, get demand for labor up, then salaries will naturally rise in a competittive job market. The more money people make, the more they spend which means more tax revenue for the government overall with greater economic activity. Adding more taxes to fuel simply because we are use to paying $3.50 a gallon is nonsense. The coawards in the Washington DC ( both parties) did not have the courage to raise the gas tax when it was $3.80 a gallon and the roads needed it then ( as in a few months ago), now are floating this idea out there because they think Americans can just pay it. Well, we can pay it, but raods and bridges are not an economic development plan for the nation. Organgic job creation based on genuine demand for products and services is the solution and affordable energy makes it all possible.
 

billyttpd

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I live in Pennsylvania. We have one of the highest state taxes on fuel in the nation. that coupled with registration fees and every other fee that Penndot throws our way all in the name of "transportation funding". I hope I live long enough to see the bomb drop when they investigate where ALL that money went. Any Pennsylvanian knows exactly what I am talking about
 

SmokyMtnGrady

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So Billytpd, I have driven in your fine state many times and you guys have the worse roads in terms of potholes and overall condition. So, yes I know what you mean and are saying....
 

Ed Bukala

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Hi Everyone
It has been a very interesting discussion to-date and I am not surprised politics is prominent in the discussions. It is also interesting to see despite the big drop in prices in Canada we are still way above the US in actual price at the pumps (can you say taxes,taxes,taxes). Yesterday the price of regular 87 octane per liter was .85 (84.9) Canadian. This translates to $3.85 US with the currency exchange presently at 1.21 per US dollar. A big part of our pricing are fixed taxes per liter then the final big one being the GST or HST (depending on which province you live in) which adds 5% to 15% per liter.....so we get hit very hard on our gas purchases. If the price is lower in theory people will holiday more, use their boats more, haul their travel trailers more, etc.etc. Is this a good thing?, depends which side of the fence you sit on. I think the positive effects far out way the negative. We have stopped or greatly slowed spending on these discretionary things and that has hurt tourism, marinas, parks, lodges, restaurants etc.etc. Yes many of us still have to commute to our jobs so the lower costs are great but we still need to do it regardless of gas prices but what a boast to the other sectors, even if we think it will be short term. The environmentalists will worry that lower gas costs will result in more consumption which in their minds is a bad thing....but that is a huge topic on its own.
Maybe just an over generalisation on my part but putting more money in the pockets of ordinary people is not a bad thing is it? If we use some of that "extra" money towards paying down personal debt, part to savings and the rest to spending, sounds pretty darn good to me.
Bukster