Naked AND Skinny

[Salinity Now]

My 265 that is!!! Sold my engines and ready to start the long drawn out process of putting new power on her. Im VERY much interested in the Suzuki 175's, Ive read alot about similar repowers, talked with a few guys that did it to similar sized Gradys, not exact, but similar. And im just really impressed by all the good feedback and positive info I read about these engines. The Yamaha's came off with ease, only hang up was getting the main bolt off the motor steering arm from the SeaStar cylinder, wiring and cables were easy to pull. The transom looks to be in really good shape, I need to put new scupper drains in the splash well, one of them is rather swollen compared to the others, there is a crack at the top where the aluminum cap meets the transom notch and opposite corner there is a crack about 3inches running down the transom at about a 45degree down angle, all of which are very thin and I think easily repairable. I will certainly want to replace the aluminum cap.

I took the boat to the scales today to get an idea what she weighs, with full gear, full water, 1/2 waste, 4 batts, 40gal of fuel, she weighed in a 8,880 pounds (on a triple axle trailer). So Im guessing 1880 for the trailer, leaving the boat at 7000, add 1000 for motors, 1260lbs for full fuel, 4x200lb crew, and 200#misc, leaves me a 10,260#s loaded down.......wow, when you add it up like that, its kinda scary?

Well.....lets not get hung up on the math!!!! Either way, Im excited about the potential for new power, Im not hung up on the Zuks just yet, but definitely leaning that way.

 

[Fishtales]

It would be interesting to see if and what it would cost to have a glass guy could take off the aluminum cap and glass the top. I still don't understand why GW uses that cap. Screws will allow water in eventually. Pretty crappy design if you ask me....

 

[Parthery]

The early returns on the new Merc 150 4S are very positive....

I don't recall what you had on there before, but I'd go Yami again and save some $$$ since you can reuse some stuff. A pair of 200 HPDIs?

 

[Salinity Now]

I gutted it completely, no Yamaha parts left on the boat, really want 4strokes, but ETEC looks to be an option is price is right (just don't like white motors on a Grady)

 

[Sea Shift]

Why only 175's? Most of the 265's I see have 225's. Mine has 250 x2 but that seems a little much and is not as fuel efficient I wold guess. I would just be concerned with power. that is allot of weight.

 

[bc282]

i like the zuke 175 motors, but for a 265, i don't think they are enough for the heavy boat. Yes, they are 4 cyl motors and lighter and cheaper than a v6, but I'd think you'd be much happier with 200+ Hp twins.

The new Yami 4.2L v6 200-250Hp units are pretty light weight and have performed well with very little issue since release. The digital controls would be sweet.

Perhaps a pipedream, but i'd always wanted a 265 but stretched out an extra 2 - 2.5 feet for a larger cockpit and cabin, but love the general layout.

 

[fishingFINattic]

I am very interested in how you make out.

Can you confirm what year your boat is?

I subscribe to the principle that bigger is better.

I think if I repower it would be with the new yamaha twin 250's, but I am not convinced they will fit when lifted up and turned all of the way to the side, I think the motor cover will hit.

I love my HPDI's and they are running strong so hopefully I still years of fun boating with the current power!

Good luck!

Tim

 

[Sea Shift]

I think if I repower it would be with the new yamaha twin 250's, but I am not convinced they will fit when lifted up and turned all of the way to the side, I think the motor cover will hit.

I can confirm that 250's are tight but doable. I manage the width at fill tilt with the brackets on the rams. Keeps them from turning. When tilted down there is not problem and the power goes without saying. My Engines are 2006 though and I think the newer ones are much lighter and more narrow.

 

[Salinity Now]

Im not truly sold on any engine....yet. Having read ALOT about the Suzys, talked with an installer, he was first to recommend em, then I followed up on it, found several THT guys that have done it on various models from Contender 27s to a Chaperall 30, then there is the few performance reports on Suzuki's website. On top of Sinclair on here that did it with a 25 sailfish (ironically in the same area, Chesapeake, just havent had a chance to meet up with him yet) and another guy here in VA that did it to a similar sized Grady, all say hole shot is great, top end lost about 4mph and economy is superb.

Seems to be a lot of Mako owners having done it, even on their mid-90s 26ft models, still getting mid 40s for speed, 2mpg + cruise. My ideal is 45mph and 30mph at 10gal/hr ie 3mpg. I see a few, not alot, but a few not so great repowers with the 265size boats, but for the most part, all OK.
I had 2-250 EFI's, economy dock to dock was a steady 1.1nm/gal, I think the trolling, idle time along will improve that.

Weight is a concern, my boat is a 2001, I compared to a 2002, the rear deck scuppers are clearly lower than the splash well scuppers, I think the running trend of 3inches is pretty spot on. Granted I dont keep my boat in the water, I worry about any negitive side effects with less than 200hp. But given my timeline of 9months or more, i'll have some time to keep searching, talk to current 175 owners and see how thier performans are compared to what I think is ]

Appreciate any input, I realy

 

[ocnslr]

My ideal is 45mph and 30mph at 10gal/hr ie 3mpg.

I was with you until you went into dream land with your ideal...

When we repowered from a single 250HO OX66 to twins (in Oct 2005), I was very interested in the DF175 Suzis, but couldn't get any firm prices or availability, so went with the F150 Yamahas. We have over 1200 hours on them and they are fine on our Islander.

I don't think the 175s are enough for your 265.

I wish you the best with your project.

Brian

 

[Grog]

The Makos also weigh at least 1000# less. They're either running a single 250 (mid 40's) for economy or twin 225's which top them out near 60. Even with your twin 250's you'll never see 60. I don't see that hull getting 3 MPG except with maybe a single diesel but you'll be nowhere near 40 MPH for a top end. I don't think you'll be happy with 175's, there's tons of other options out there only 2 weigh too much for you Honda's and V6 Verados.

 

[Salinity Now]

I do have reservations on the 175's, I'll be first to admit that. The idea was first started by a local Suzy dealer, he swears by them, but he also sells them (insert grain of salt.....) I certainly dont want to be a $28,000 guinea pig.

I have some ideas to move weight off the transom, thought about moving the batteries (2-27's port and stbd) from the current location to where the oil tanks used to be, not a massive change, but notable I would think (Ive already converted that aft small deck lid to a hinged hatch, the access to the bilge area with that is NIGHT AND DAY better) leaving me lots of room to work.

The bottom bolts stayed fixed in the transom, ie leaving the hull water integrity intact. Im thinking when I get the time, I may do a water bag test in the splash well of 1000-1400#s to really see what the weight will do to the scuppers. I dont currently, nor plan on leaving the boat in the water, it will stay trailered so that may not be as much of an issue for me, not to disregard it, but a variable worth noting. Ive never noticed a draining issue or backwash problem with the deck scuppers to date, but at the same time I didnt look at it specifically either, in hindsight I should've done alittle "pre-testing" prior to removal of the engines.

When I first bought the boat, no gear, +/- 75gal of fuel/water/waste, she weighed 10300#s on the trailer, when I weighed her this weekend, same trailer, full gear, +/-40gal fuel, full water, 1/2 waste, the boat weighed 8880, a net loss of 1420#s.

If that were true engine weights, I could get by with a set of Suzy 250's (published weight of 580#s). My local VA dealer quoted me 28k installed for 175's with SMIS gauges, using Diamond Marine's published price of 37k installed its not a bad increase for the additional power. I plan on keeping this boat for a while.....long while infact, so I want to do this right. The thing I want the most is economy, the 1nmpg is just something i couldnt use the boat and enjoy, granted 3mpg is not great in the overall scheme of economy, but if you look at it relative, its a 200% improvement, combined with less fuel idle and trolling I think an overall average of that is possible (dock to dock, trip odometer vs fuel consumed kind of numbers)...........again, thats "ideal"!!!

Im still very much in the design stage of this idea, obviously Im committed to it now (since the engines and rigging are gone!!), so I guess I have nothing but time and opportunity to see whats best.

I certainly value the feedback, I know this idea has been discussed before, I think I have Googled every site on the web referring to 175 repowers, I would like to talk to some 265 owners that repowered but didnt change the scuppers, that would make me feel alot better knowing it could be done without waterline issues for the scuppers.

 

[family affair]

What is unfortunate about outboard power ratings is that the numbers leave a lot to be desired. Examples on both ends of the spectrum are 225 Yamaha 4-stroke zuk 175's. Inline 4's can make much better torque than a similar displacement v6. The zuk's likely make better midrange torque to get you on plane, but that much weight and girth will certainly need more top end HP to crack 40.
Try finding someone with twin zuk's on a boat with the same beam. See if they have ever loaded it with enough people to be similar in weight to what your typical condition would be. How did it perform? Without a 28k gamble, I can't see how else you will be able to know if it will work.

 

[fishingFINattic]

I would truely not consider the 175's

The boat NEVER came with 350hp so I think it would be a mistake.

Have you considered the new Yamaha 250's w/ fly by wire?

They are lighter than the F250's

Tim

 

[Bill_N]

Im not truly sold on any engine....yet. Having read ALOT about the Suzys, talked with an installer, he was first to recommend em, then I followed up on it, found several THT guys that have done it on various models from Contender 27s to a Chaperall 30, then there is the few performance reports on Suzuki's website. On top of Sinclair on here that did it with a 25 sailfish (ironically in the same area, Chesapeake, just havent had a chance to meet up with him yet) and another guy here in VA that did it to a similar sized Grady, all say hole shot is great, top end lost about 4mph and economy is superb.

Seems to be a lot of Mako owners having done it, even on their mid-90s 26ft models, still getting mid 40s for speed, 2mpg + cruise. My ideal is 45mph and 30mph at 10gal/hr ie 3mpg. I see a few, not alot, but a few not so great repowers with the 265size boats, but for the most part, all OK.
I had 2-250 EFI's, economy dock to dock was a steady 1.1nm/gal, I think the trolling, idle time along will improve that.

Weight is a concern, my boat is a 2001, I compared to a 2002, the rear deck scuppers are clearly lower than the splash well scuppers, I think the running trend of 3inches is pretty spot on. Granted I dont keep my boat in the water, I worry about any negitive side effects with less than 200hp. But given my timeline of 9months or more, i'll have some time to keep searching, talk to current 175 owners and see how thier performans are compared to what I think is ]

Appreciate any input, I realy

It's great to have stretch goals but I think you're really stretching it at 3 mpg on a 265. That is a good number on a single engine 22 footer.

I have a 2002 265 with F225's and I average approx 1.75 mpg which is much better than some guys I know that are running Etecs on similar size boats. I don't know anyone running anything under 200's on a 265. You could be underpowered with the 175's and kicking yourself for it later.

 

[Salinity Now]

Just to be clear, Im absolutely not expecting 3mpg at cruise, im thinking more total avg, ie including idle and trolling. I would think the DF175s could avg a a good 2.2-2.4 avg cruising (speed est 24-28mph) but thats just my thoughts from comparable boats and internet readings, just a hunch, nothing concrete.

All that being said, I think today was a good wake up call, finally got the true tare weight for my tri-axle trailer, 1800#s, ie my boat loaded with gear, light fuel, no people or engines, weighed in at 7080#s......that pretty dang heavy for a 26ft boat.

I sent in an inquiry to Grady, haven't heard back yet, but they did acknowledge the email quickly. Id like to know what they recommend as absolute max weight per engine for my 2001 (hoping they dont just reference old reviews with the SX/LX 250s and match the #s) even though the OX66 250s were published at 493#s the Suzy V6s are published at 580#s so a total of an extra 174#s on the transom.......I really dont know if thats too much or not? (maybe removing the oil tanks and shifting the batteries would counter the difference?)

On top of the fact Im deploying the the IKE next week, spending the summer dealing with annoying Iranian Patrol Boats, coming home to a new baby in Nov......I'll have several months to dwell this one over!!!

 

[Bread]

As far as the engine type goes I will second the positive experience with the Suzuki DF175. I have been very pleased with my DF175 (single on my 1990 Overnighter). It was installed in 2008 in the CT area & my dealer is one town away. Good luck with your re-power.

 

[Grog]

I can't see how you expect to average 3 MPG. Your cruise may be 2.2 and idle time is 0. I'm not sure what you expect to get when tolling but you better troll with the current, a lot.

 

[Dieler]

More opinion for you;
I have a 265 w/ 2 x 200 HPDI's, love the boat and love the motors, best I have dialed in is about 2.1-2.2 mpg at relatively moderate cruise, would say I avg 1.8-1.9 mpg best for general use (varying rpm range through day), likely about 1.6-1.7 mpg when zipping along at 32-33mph cruise
Heavy boat, think I would be unhappy under 2 x 200hp
Slip neighbor has a 175 Suzuki setup, says he loves it - single screw, lighter / smaller boat.
Saw a twin Honda 4 stroke setup just the other day, think they have a higher HP out now as compared to prior model years?
Good luck