Problems with Seastar helm.

R

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I have had my Sailfish about a year now and I have had to bleed the hydraulic lines 3 times now due to diminishing steering response (much play at the wheel). The steering will get to the point that I have to turn the wheel 3/4 turn before it responds and it usually favors to port, turning to starboard however, is not nearly as bad. Not sure why. The boat is equipped with a Simrad AP 26. What is puzzling is I can't find any indication of a leak anywhere. If air is getting in I would assume fluid is getting out ? I have checked for leaks at the helm, the ap pump, the steering cylinder but can not find anything unusual. Should I start with a rebuild of the helm first? I did this on my last boat due to the front seal leaking and it took care of that obvious problem but not sure about this one. I have also had problems with the ap tracking properly and I'm wondering if these two issues might be related. My first boat with the ap and twins. Thanks for any insight.

Ron
 
If air comes out of your bleed hose (making bubbles in container), then air is getting in.

If no air, perhaps helm internal valves are defective.
 
Yes, that would be my first question too; are you getting air bubbles out of the cylinder when you bleed it?

Are you losing fluid level at the helm - do you have to top up? If the helm gets too low it will pump air into the lines. And yes, if you have air in your lines then your auto-pilot isn't going to work properly. (Sorry I think you already knew that.)

Sure sounds like a leak somewhere to me and air is getting into the system.

I like the long hose method of bleeding. Get one long enough to go back to the helm and recycle the fluid 'till it's clear of bubbles. I use a funnel at the helm instead of a pierced bottle. Only works with good fluid though. If it's contaminated it needs to be replaced.

BTW, a standard air-hose chuck will screw into the helm plug, then you can connect a short length of hose and a funnel to the chuck.
 
Seastar

Sometimes its the valves in the helm station, depends on the age. Mine was noisey (10 years old) but if they don't close properly you will get other problems. New pump was smooth as silk.

How old is the helm unit?
 
No leaks at the helm, I use the pierced bottle method at the helm and while working the wheel back and forth you will occasionally see small air bubbles. I believe there may be some air coming from the cylinder at first, I crack open the bleed screw while someone is turning the helm over and close it before reaching center and at times I'm not sure if I am releasing air or not. I'll stop once i am confidant there is no more air. Two or three times from port to starboard and the steering is back to normal. I have not tried the long hose method, how does that work with the 2 bleed screws?

Helm unit is an '05, original with the boat I'm sure.

If the internal valves were going bad could the problem be worse turning to one side and not the other? The steering is much less responsive turning to port than starboard when this problem starts to occur. Thanks for the replies.
 
3/4's of a turn, (before it moves) is pretty bad.

Did you check the seals on each end of the cylinder for leaks. They're usually the first thing to start leaking.

Make sure you are properly bleeding the system according to Seastar - http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD ... urge.htm&1

You may have had air introduced into the system when the ap was installed. Maybe that needs to be bled, (it might explain the poor tracking). Check the ap's lines for leaks too.

I also agree with Hookup 1, if there's no leaks and it's been properly bled, the check valves in the helm would be my next guess.

Wouldn't hurt to shoot an e-mail over to Seastar either - http://ww2.seastarsteering.com/SHARED/g ... tact.htm&1
 
Had the same problem with 06 330. I bled the cylinders and it helped for a while. Then I lost steering completely in 20 mph wind. Was able to get boat in safely with twin engines and bow thruster. Found the helm assembly was leaking at the rear gasket. Replaced helm assembly. Still leaking somewhere. Found the power assist was leaking and replaced also. This was actually the third power assist pump from SeaStar. Others did not leak just sporadic power outages. Have not paid for a power assist pump yet only labor. I have Simrad AP26 also not sure if related to problem, I was told the power assist pump must have had power surge which blew out helm assembly and pump at the same time. Who knows. In the 330 you can take out the electric panel and check the helm assembly. Not sure if this will help just thought I should let you know in case it does.
 
You can get a cylinder seal kit for right at $100 shipped. I would replace those first and see if that fixes it. That's where I would put my bet. If not then you know it's the helm.

At first glance they seem complicated, but once you dig into them they are really quite a simple system.

As mentioned, it wouldn't hurt to call SeaStar and see if you can get a good factory tech that is willing to troubleshoot over the phone. Failing that it's still cheaper to throw parts at it than it is to pay an incompetent field tech $100 an hour to tinker.

Oh, and the long hose bleed method...you do one side at a time, turning from lock to lock untill there's no air. BTW, if you're not using a hose on the bleed nipple then you'll most likely suck air before you get it closed. I had this same issue with mine at one time, replaced a leaky seal, and it's been fine since. It still leaks, I find fluid in the motor well, but it's only like a teaspoon full in a few weeks, I just top up the helm. I have a chip in the rod and it's never going to completely seal right. A new cylinder is like $500.

My bet is that you're not getting it completely bled out correctly. If there's any air in the system it will find it's way into the cylinder and you'll get that symptom. I found more air long after I thought all was bled out.
 
Searstar Helm

On your steering cylinder there are to glands one at each end. there is one o'ring inside with a hydraulic seal on top of it and one hydraulic seal on the outside. Sometimes the inside seal will loose pressure without noticing any fluid leaking. The seals can be rebuilt.
 
Did the AP ever work right from day 1?

If not, you may not be using the right procedure to get ALL the air out.

If ALL the air is out, and you can turn the wheel even a tiny little bit w/o the ram moving, the helm is shot.
That's presuming air is not entering once it is ALL cleared out, easy enough to watch for bubbles on a 2nd bleed.

These hydraulic systems just like the brakes in our cars are very simple and reliable, no need to be putting up with this.
 
Yep, I think I will try the hose method at bleeding the cylinder this time and take a good look at the cylinder seals as well. I feel certain there are no leaks at the ap pump and doubt the helm itself is leaking.

BobP, the ap is the only item that has not worked well since I bought her. The unit did not work at all during the survey and it was diagnosed as a bad rudder feedback unit. I replaced the LF3000 and it seemed to work OK but would still drift a bit and get the "off course warning". I did all of the dockside and sea trial settings, etc. Problem has gotten steadily worse and now I don't have much confidence in it and that's a drag as the is my first boat with an ap and it's pretty sweet when working properly. If I can solve the bleed down issue than I will move on to the ap unit. Thanks, Ron
 
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