Single versus double engine settup on Gulfstream!

[jpclarkie]

Considering a Gulfsteam with either a single outboard versus twin outboards. Like to go offshore to fish but with the cost of fuel nowadays, I'm wondering about the thought of just one engine or two.
I know having two is best for security and piece-of-mind but then again having unlimited towing option thru BoatUS can't hurt either. Just don't want to get into a twin situation then have to depend on others to help fuel the boat when using it. Looks like the cost of fuel is going to be around $2.25 gallon at least this summer on the water.
All various inputs on this issue appreciated.

 

[ElyseM]

i have an '02 with twin f200's. i do better than the posted performance numbers at cruise (i'm not a cowboy and i rarely run wot unless it's to blow out the engines). the f200's are a little heavy and result in the scuppers being about 3/4 below the waterline. i don't know if they rebalanced the new ones to account for that. the popular setup now seems to be twin f150's. if you look at the performance charts, i think you'll see that they work a little harder than the f200's. f175's would be perfect on that model (there's buzz that they are bringing the 4 cylinders up to that).

i think a single could be a mistake. that is a big boat and the close quarter handling will definitely be impacted. i suggest you try out a single to see how you feel in it. also, a dealer told me that, in general, they have a lot of trouble selling used bigger fishboats that are set up with only one engine.

ultimately your decision, but i would repeat my setup without a second thought. ron

 

[magicalbill]

I had a Seafarer with a single and a bracket. It was a pain to horse around a dock, especially in a windy situation.
I can only imagine I would have even more trouble docking my current Gulfstream with a single. I have twin 200's on mine and the twins make docking and close-quarter maneuvering much easier.

Power VS. fuel cost?

My 200's get 1.9 to 2.0 MPG in calm water..1.5 to 1.8 in rougher stuff. They also get the boat on plane with full fuel, multiple passengers and all my extra gear with no problem. Keep in mind they cruise effortlessly running my boat in the low 30's. I would opt for the 200's over the 150's. I have NEVER been sorry I powered my boats to the maximum. Has anyone ever wished they had LESS power?...Besides, I can't say for sure, but I don't think the 150 setup gets much if any better mileage than the 200's.

The scuppers? Mine are almost submerged..It doesn't matter..I hose off the deck regularly with my raw-water washdown system and the water always drains out anyway. Same with rainy weather..It drains fine.. I don't care or think about the scuppers.

I would go with twins and power to the max..I would do the same setup again..Good luck, the Gulfstream rocks..truly..

 

[Legend]

Can't speak to the twins on a Gulfstrem, however, I can say they are great on a Sailfish so I would assume the same on the Gulfstream. I can also tell you that I had a Gulfstream and it did not like to back up with a single engine. Not sure you would need 400. I has a single F225 and it was OK. I would think twin 150s would be ideal.

 

[BobP]

What choice of motors?

F350 vs. 2 x F150s?

Suzie 300 vs. F150s?

 

[lgusto]

I have a single 250 on my 2005 Gulfstream and have been happy. There are times I'd rather go faster, like on the occasional calm day fishing out 30 miles or so. Close quarter handling does take practice and a fair amount of nerve. But, even in the very strong currents of Maine's rivers we've been OK so far. I think it's made us better helmsmen. Just have to keep the engine trimmed up about halfway when reversing.

I'd like to find out how many two engine skippers have ever had to limp home on one as their only option. I've heard plenty of stories but wonder what the statistics are with modern four strokes.

In any case, running my single saved me several thousand dollars last year in fuel and maintenance. That's a card I can always pull out when the admiral starts adding up receipts.

Either way you'll be very pleased with the boat.

Larry

 

[Fishermanbb]

I had an 89 Gulfstream with twins and I ran an early 2000's with a single and I can tell you without a doubt they ride and handle totally differently. Around the dock the single was a real bear....And I consider myself to be a pretty experienced boater.....Under way the twin version on that hull rides much better....Must be something to do with the attitude on that hull with a single screw.....This is one hull I STRONLGY recommend putting twins on regardless of the extra fuel cost.....Try to run it both ways if you need more convincing.....

 

[ElyseM]

as far as fuel economy goes, go to the gw website and lay out the performance numbers side by side. you aren't going to see leagues of difference in them. it's going to come down to whether there is enough power for you and how hard or easy the engines work. and obviously take the numbers with a grain of salt.

now, that said, two engines will cost more to buy and service than a single. but as i said before, i wouldn't change a thing if i did it again. ron

 

[prodiver]

My grady tournament 275 is powered by a single 350 yamaha. I'm real pleased with it, and venture out to the gulfstream quite often. Over 50 mile ride. My thoughts are its cheaper to run, service, and has great power and speed. If you have bad gas, it will affect both engines. If you hit something, it will probably affect both props (maybe not, but who knows). I've got seatow, and they will cover out to 60 miles as I'm told by them.

The service techs said the 350 four stroke is very reliable. No problems yet!

IMHO

 

[gradyfish22]

Twin F150's are the way to go. You stated you fish offshore, although from Maryland the run is not super far, having the reliability of twins is almost a must. If an engine breaks down you can limp in on one. F150's are very fuel efficient and allow plenty of power and are still rather fuel efficient. An F350 would power the boat with plenty of power, but it gives you only 1 engine, tune ups and service are a lot higher on an F350 then an F150, I bet both F150's will not be a whole lot more to service then the single F350. I believe the F250 is roughly $200 more at my dealer to tune and service, maybe more, parts will cost more for sure. As for trolling offshore, twins are better, if you need to turn on a fish you have more manuverabilty and when you fight a fish you cna just keep one in gear and move slower to keep tension on a fish rather then moving faster with the F350. Manuveuring in the dock will be a huge benefit if you have twins, they spin a lot easier and will get into a slip a lot better. For near coastal fishing a single would be ok, although most guys I know who even fish near shore regret getting a single and wish they went with twins. F200's would be overkill on a 23 gulfstream, the F150's are the best package and the only way I'd by a gulfstream, especially if your running offshore.

also, if you do not plan to always run with a buddy boat, twins are warrented even more. If your running a single you really should have a buddy boat on all offshore trips. Another side note, the F350 has a very high cowling, which makes swinging a tuna even harder. Brackets are bad enough IMHO, but having a big cowling like an F350 behind the boat makes it even harder, the F150's aren't too bad to get around.

As for the difference in efficiency, your talking maybe .2mpg at most change between the 2 engines, at most speeds it is less during cruise so your range will not chnage a lot and your over all bill is not going to be a significant difference, If you were talking .4mpg or .5mpg difference I'd agree there might be reason to go with the more efficient one. There are a lot of rumors that the F350 is not really producing 350 hp, not sure if it is true or not, but for the hp they are heavy engines. If you go with twins you will have no regrets, if you go with the single you may wonder. I went from a single to twin powered boat boat during our last purchase and the difference in handling, manuverabilty and safety are well worth it. Had to limp in once last year on a single after braid got wrapped in the prop, limped with it raised, pulled it in the slip and got it off without any damage. Couldn't do that with a single unless you want to get very wet or kill yourself hanging over doing it upside down.

 

[Tashmoo]

Single F350 or Twin 150??? On my 275 I went through this mental masturbation and ended up with a single F350 for better performance, lower upfront cost and newer technology. That said I have/had no burning desire to own twins. I just wanted the best configuration for my use and that was a single.

I do not put heavy weight into the argument of a second engine as I have never needed one in 18 years on the ocean. I know I will probably sing a different tune when it happens. Handling will be better at low speed as will backing up with twins I found backing and docking a challenge at first but now it is OK. With twin 150's you will pay $3,000 more up front for 90% of the performance of the F350 and will pay more for service. Service $$$ on the 150's will cost more but the F350 will not be 1/2 the cost ether. You will have slightly more weight with twins. You will not get variable rate valve timing and fly by wire controls with twins.

If you dream of a boat with twins that's all that matters buy twins, if you want the best performance for your money and can live with handling at the dock buy a single.

The bottom line is buy the configuration that keeps you up at night thinking about it.

 

[wahoo33417]

Like Tashmoo, I prefer a single engine. We chose the 258 because, in my opinion, it was the most boat that I thought paired well with a single. We did run and consider a 232 with twin F150s, but I would not have ordered that boat with a single engine.

Rob

 

[jimintheair3]

I have a 2005 232 with twin Yamaha 150 four stroke.
I ran a 232 (250 four stroke) single in Newport, CA and was impressed (25 gals of fuel and empty bunks- empty gear/ empty coolers/2 people.
The dealer Shocks made me a wonderful deal (trailer and Furuno gear-owner used it in Loreto,MX) I said I would think about it for a couple days.
Found my present boat and am glad I did. A 232 weights 8500lbs loaded with fuel and nothing else!!
It is not a Seafarer!!
You add gear/coolers and then add up your passengers. 500lbs+600/800lbs and now you are 10,000lbs!! My boat and trailer, just towing to the ramp weights 10200 (trailer 1500lbs).
When I have four on board and the "stuff for the day, I add the power to get on plane I am glad I have the twins. Twin 200's for me on the west coast is not good, we like to troll slow and 200's won't do. My choice are the twin 150's and I am glad I did. Very economical and run great, like to run high speed, keeps them carbon free (certified mech says so/ print out backs that up). If you deal with rough weather/ugly seas you want responsive power!!
Good luck, make sure you have the rig to tow 10,500 LBS !!!
Jim

 

[catch22]

I have a 2005 232 with twin Yamaha 150 four stroke.
I ran a 232 (250 four stroke) single in Newport, CA and was impressed (25 gals of fuel and empty bunks- empty gear/ empty coolers/2 people.
The dealer Shocks made me a wonderful deal (trailer and Furuno gear-owner used it in Loreto,MX) I said I would think about it for a couple days.
Found my present boat and am glad I did. A 232 weights 8500lbs loaded with fuel and nothing else!!
It is not a Seafarer!!
You add gear/coolers and then add up your passengers. 500lbs+600/800lbs and now you are 10,000lbs!! My boat and trailer, just towing to the ramp weights 10200 (trailer 1500lbs).
When I have four on board and the "stuff for the day, I add the power to get on plane I am glad I have the twins. Twin 200's for me on the west coast is not good, we like to troll slow and 200's won't do. My choice are the twin 150's and I am glad I did. Very economical and run great, like to run high speed, keeps them carbon free (certified mech says so/ print out backs that up). If you deal with rough weather/ugly seas you want responsive power!!
Good luck, make sure you have the rig to tow 10,500 LBS !!!
Jim

" A 232 weights 8500lbs loaded with fuel and nothing else"!!

I'd like to know how you arrived at that number? :?

"It is not a Seafarer"!!

Really... wow... thanks. :wink:

"we like to troll slow and 200's won't do".

Huh? :? Try with 1 engine.

jpclarkie,

As you already know, pro's and cons to "single vs twins".

A single 250 will more than likely give you the same performance as a pair of 150's even with the additional 50 hp. The extra weight of a second engine, and the additional drag, (2 lower units) will eat up the difference. You might even see a higher top end with the single.

Twin engines means "maintenance times 2", so double everything when it comes time to replace parts for general maintenence. Instead of 1 filter/sepearator... it's 2. Instead of 4 or 6 plugs... it's 8 or 12, etc.

When operating, both engines better be in sinc, or the slower one will pull the other one down. Not to mention, if there's a problem with one engine... your pretty much screwed as far as getting anywhere in a hurry.

The best advantage, (imo) to having twins is.... when your negotiating heavey swells, or rough conditions, especially if your heavily loaded, the twin engines won't labor, (rpm's up and down) as much as compared to a single. The twin engines will share the load.

I had a Gulfstream with a single 250 OX66... and I had no complaints what so ever. Total wet weight was around 7000 lbs.

With all that's been said, If I were going with twins, I would go "ape-sh!t", so my choice would be twin 200 hpdi's. Much lower weight and the best speed/performance.

 

[magicalbill]

My trailer weight for my 232 is 10,100 LBS. It adds up in a hurry.

I have great respect for Gradyfish and enjoy all his posts..
I have to disagree strongly with him here, however.
Twin 200's are NOT overkill for a 232. I own one and they are the perfect powerplants.. I would've got 225's if they would've been an option.
I still say fuel burn between them and the 150's is close, the engines will not work as hard, they'll get on plane easier and faster, and you've got a fast cruise whenever you want it. Plus, I would think the boat would be worth more in resale, plus, as I stated the boat is the BIGGEST 23 footer out there.
Plus, as has been said, twins ride better at sea and I'm interested in having as much advantage as possible when I'm docking my six-figure boat in currents and wind.
I do concede that the cost is more upfront and in maintenance later.. It's always easier to spend someone else's money rather than mine..I will never go back to a single engine rig, however, and wouldn't advise anyone buying a Gulfstream with aspirations of going offshore to equip it with a single.

 

[lgusto]

It's neat to read so many well thought out responses, particularly since this issue is close at hand for me personally.

In the end I think it's kind of like discussing which is better, a snooty super model or the girl next door with a great attitude. I'll bet each of us would change his mind almost daily depending on what we wanted to do that day.

 

[catch22]

It's neat to read so many well thought out responses, particularly since this issue is close at hand for me personally.

In the end I think it's kind of like discussing which is better, a snooty super model or the girl next door with a great attitude. I'll bet each of us would change his mind almost daily depending on what we wanted to do that day.

Speaking of twins....

 

[GWcpa]

232 with twin 200s is a sweet rig. As said, it is a totally different boat with twin props providing thrust. With twins it will cruise in the low to mid 30s with very little effort, top out over 50 when desired.

I'm basing this on HPDIs.

Mine would plane on one engine without too much effort around 30 mph. Came home on one once when the water pump impeller spun its spline hub.

 

[jpclarkie]

Thanks for all of your input. I read the pros and cons and I think the way to go is definitely twin engines on that size boat. I had a Seafarer with a 225HP single, which is ok for that size boat, but I seen that even thou the Gulfstream is "only" a foot longer, the added weight and width of that size boat makes the use of twin engines inperative, to say the least.
And one of the best points is in resale value, which one day we all sell or whatever, is the aspect of having twin engine package compared to a single, makes it easilier to sell.
Thanks all!

 

[ElyseM]

Thanks for all of your input. I read the pros and cons and I think the way to go is definitely twin engines on that size boat. I had a Seafarer with a 225HP single, which is ok for that size boat, but I seen that even thou the Gulfstream is "only" a foot longer, the added weight and width of that size boat makes the use of twin engines inperative, to say the least.
And one of the best points is in resale value, which one day we all sell or whatever, is the aspect of having twin engine package compared to a single, makes it easilier to sell.
Thanks all!

good luck. you are also going into a great time to buy. ron