Confusing Leak in Cabin of '95 Sailfish 272

Jonah · Jan 10, 2018

Hi everyone,

I have a leak in my new-to-me Sailfish ('95 272), and am wondering if anyone might have some insight or advice.

As you can see in the photos below, water is collecting along the sides of the cabin, just below the rod holders. However, the carpeted ceiling just above those spots is dry. So, it's not dripping down from above. The wet spots are also not directly below any of the windows.

The photos also show wet streaks running down the side wall, from up behind the rod holders, where there is a gap in the carpet ceiling that leads up to the gunwhale (where the bow rail and 'bumper' rub rail both screw into the hull). I can put my hand up there, but I'm not finding any obvious leaks or loose screws, etc.

It's happening on both sides of the cabin. My best guess is that water is leaking through the screw holes of the bow rail or rub rail, and is dripping behind the carpet on the wall, and collecting at the bottom?

I will see if I can upload a video to explain things better. Thanks for any advice!

...

p.s. Update many weeks later: it turned out to be a leaking rub-rail. So, if anyone else ever sees leaks like those in the photos below, you might check there. See the rest of the thread for details.

Sharkbait282 · Jan 10, 2018

In our 282 Sailfish we get streaks up front depending on how wet the season is, and I'd agree with your guess that it's screws in the rub rail and/or bow rail assembly allowing some trace water through. Nothing on a boat is "permanently" sealed, especially with the beating these hulls can take. That's not a guarantee that it's exactly what's leaking, but there's a limited amount of hardware mounted up in that area of the boat.

For the time being we just chase it with some mildew and/or carpet cleaner and the hull sides come clean enough, until it gets bad enough for me to want to pull the rub rail center channel out and start re-sealing a bunch of fasteners.

Jonah · Jan 10, 2018

Thanks Sharkbait. Is it easy to describe how to remove the center channel? Do I just peel back the outside layer of the rub rail?

Also curious whether others think the bow rail screws could be the culprit?

Jonah · Jan 10, 2018

Or ... could I temporarily run a bead of silicon along the upper inside edge of the rubrail, to stop water from sneaking behind it?

DennisG01 · Jan 10, 2018

It sounds logical that the most likely culprit is the bow rail stanchion screws or the rubrail screws. When the weather dries up, have someone squirt a hose on the suspect areas and see if you can duplicate it. Start with the rubrail and temporarily "seal" the stanchions with tape so you test one area at a time. You can then tape over the entire rubrail and repeat. And at 23 years old, it's overdue for resealing anyways (both spots). By your comment about your rubrail insert, I take it you have a vinyl insert? If so, yes, it is just a friction fit. You put it back in with a rubber mallet.

What's your choice for sealant brand?

Edit... we were typing at the same time and I didn't see your question about silicone. I prefer to NOT use silicone since what you use it, you pretty much always have to use it as it soaks into the gelcoat and prevents other (usually better) types from sticking. Besides, that won't be a conclusive experiment since water could seep in through the slight gap of the insert. Tape is better for an experiment.

Jonah · Jan 10, 2018

Thank you Dennis.

I'll see if I can duplicate the leak by isolating parts of the rub-rail or the bow-rail. But since, as you mention, it's overdue for re-sealing anyway, I might just go ahead and do it in both areas.

In the meantime, I do still wonder if I could seal up the tiny space between the rub-rail and the gunwhale by putting some kind of clear sealant over the upper-inside edge of the rub-rail, so that water can't seep behind it and reach the screws. When you ask what my choice of sealant is, you can tell that my answer would have been silicone! If you can recommend other products, I'd be grateful. I'm still a newbie on this site.

DennisG01 · Jan 10, 2018

Water could still leak in through the slight gap between the rubrail and the insert. Don't get me wrong, silicone isn't necessarily a bad choice, per se, but I've had such good experiences with non-silicone products that I don't see the need to tie my hands down the road. There's any number of products that can work, but I've been using the Boat Life products for 15+ years and they are very reliable. I work part time in the marine industry and the shop uses that brand as well. Plus, you can call that company and you'll get a real, live person. Whatever you decide, do not get lulled into using 3M 5200 - regardless of what you read throughout the 'net. Totally wrong application for that stuff.

If you want to 'step up your game', look into butyl rubber tape. That's pretty much the best stuff out there for this type of sealing application.

Or, quick and dirty... buy some "hull preservation tape". It's a lot like shrink tape but is even better at not leaving residue. You can leave that on there for months, or longer. The only thing you might notice when you remove it is that the blue vinyl could end up turning a darker (more "new" looking) color. Not permanent, though.

Also consider re-sealing other items (cleats, lights, etc).

ROBERTH · Jan 11, 2018

I found over the summer, that I had the same issue which was causing everything to get wet in the cabin. I pulled off the port side rub rail from pulpit back to just past midships and tightened screws, which mostly were all ok and just used the clear silicone to reseal and re-installed. No more leaks on that side.
When I get a warmer day, will need to do the same on the starboard side as I get some water in there also.

It took me a while to find my leaks. Mine were not as bad as what is showing you have, but was enough to soak up everything and helping to cause some mold/mildew issues due to the hidden wet areas of carpet, etc.

I did enough reading around and found this seems to be a common issue.

Jonah · Jan 11, 2018

Thanks everyone, very helpful as always.

Last question for now: any tips on pulling back the rub rail? Sounds like I can re-attach it to the center channel with a rubber mallot, but how about removing it? Just peel it off?

DennisG01 · Jan 11, 2018

Yup, just pry it out. Start at an end cap, remove end cap, pretty straight forward from there.

ROBERTH · Jan 12, 2018

On mine, I just pulled it out from the mid section and worked forward to pull it out up to the bow as I just wanted to work that area. Putting it back, it does stretch so have to take care to ensure it will go back in as same length. During hot summer it was stretching, but working it back in different areas trying to be even with it, it made it is with some influence and a rubber mallet, screwdrivers and WD40.

I don't think it is worth trying in cold weather though! This rubber is pretty heavy duty so does not work with you in cold temps.

Jonah · Jan 12, 2018

Thanks everyone,

As I'm in the Bahamas, it's still pretty warm here at the moment! (Robert, I was in Raleigh for Christmas, so I know what kind of weather you've had lately!)

I had a look this morning, and I think I have a good sense of how to go about the project. The closer I look, the more places I find that need re-sealing (front cabin windows, etc.). I even found some water sneaking behind my chart plotter and into the wire box.

Thanks again everyone.

ROBERTH · Jan 12, 2018

Good luck Jonah! Wish I was with you in Bahamas! :mrgreen:

My windows also leak. I have a contact I need to call and get the replacement window rubber channels/trim. Just need to measure how much I need. Hoping when I do this, will fix the leaks in the channels. That is a small leak though. However, the outer frame needs sealing also as I did find it was leaking last year. Just a small thin strip around the perimeter fixed that issue.

Jonah · Jan 15, 2018

Robert and Dennis,

Thanks again for the advice. I have now removed (part of) the 'insert' from the center channel, and I can see that some screws are indeed loose—even before I reach the area where the leak is occurring. This is a bit unsettling, since I can see from the paperwork that a reputable Grady dealer repaired both sides of the rub rail about 5 years ago.

Anyway, do you have any advice on re-sealing the screws? None seem to be stripped (they still grab/bite when I tighten them), so I suppose they just need to be re-sealed. Do I just remove the screw, squirt some BoatLife sealant into the hole, and then tighten the screw back into place? Is there anything more complicated or strategic than that?

And if I find any bent screws, which have torn out of place (I think I see one further up the rub rail), should I just use the same sealant to patch up the hole?

Thanks again.

ROBERTH · Jan 15, 2018

Jonah, I think from time to time you can find a screw loosening up under the rubrails as the boats flex over time working hard in the heavy seas. I have had 3 different boat brands and all 3 had this happen but very infrequently.

Not sure why some screws backout but had one backing out on the transom a couple years ago and it was actually pushing the rubrail out. I pulled the screw, it looked ok, but put in a different screw and put on some blue loctite and it has never backed out since.

Like you said, it was not stripped out, just loose.

Once I removed the rubrail to fix the leak, I checked tightness and most all were very tight but might have gone in a 1/4 turn or so. If you have a real loose one, add some loctite to the threads and re-install it and that should help it from coming out.

Not sure loctite is the right stuff for fiberglass, but so far, it has worked ok. In the area absent of air, it will cure and hold, so have to believe it is working so far for me.

If you are finding constant loose screws, then something more serious is going on and needs to be checked out. Make sure the hardtop is tight in all mounting locations so it can reduce any flex, etc. Check your stringers to make sure they are not in trouble, etc.

DennisG01 · Jan 15, 2018

Like Robert said, things get loose on boats. It's not uncommon at all to expect to have to tighten things on a somewhat regular basis. I've never tried the Loctite, but yes, you can squirt a little of the BoatLife stuff in the hole and on the threads and then tighten. Both LifeSeal and LifeCaulk are an "adhesive" sealant, with LifeCaulk being stronger (but takes a little longer to cure and is messier).

FYI, you might find that many of the screws have NO sealant on them. Many (good) manufacturer's simply zip screws in without applying sealant. In theory, this works just fine since the two halves of the boat are sealed to each other and the screws are going through that sealant. Plus, when the screws are tight, they seal quite well into just fiberglass. But over time, things vibrate and loosen up... so "theory" get's thrown out the window in lieu of "real world"... which leaves us tightening things and sealing things. For what it's worth, those loose screws that you found will stay tighter, longer, now that you will put sealant on them.

Suggestion... just take the whole thing off. It's not a whole lot more work right now. But if you don't, you KNOW what's going to happen... later this year or next year you'll get a leak in another area. Do it once, do it right and you'll be set for a long, long time.

Jonah · Jan 15, 2018

Thanks again; this is all very helpful.

I will go ahead and remove the entire insert, and will check all screws holding the rail in place. Unfortunately I have no trailer, so this is going to involve a lot of lying down on the dock or leaning over the gunwales.

And how about that last question: if I find any bent screws, which have torn out of place (I think I see one further up the rub rail), should I just use the same sealant to patch up the screw hole? Since these aren't really load-bearing screws, I wonder if I could get away with just using the same kind of material to patch a hole, then screw into it?

DennisG01 · Jan 15, 2018

To an extent, manufacturer's do rely on the screws as well as the goop between the two boat halves. The goop seals and glues, but boat builders often tout "X" number of screws per inch to hold the deck to the hull. Now, will missing one or two here or there cause an issue? Doubtful. But I'd replace them with new screws.

Do you have a nice area where you can beach the boat? Bring it in at high tide - should give you plenty of time till the tide comes in again.

Jonah · Jan 16, 2018

Thanks again,

And sorry, I wrote that question badly: I definitely plan on replacing any damaged screws, as you advised. I was mainly wondering how to patch up the damaged hole in the fiberglass, if the screw had torn out of the threaded hole. But it sounds like the same sealant will do the trick.

Very grateful for this forum.

DennisG01 · Jan 16, 2018

If the damaged area doesn't affect the ability of the screw to "hold", then I wouldn't worry about it. For good measure, just squirt a little sealant over any bare fiberglass. If it does affect the ability of the screw to hold, then it's a matter of how many areas are damaged and how you want to go about fixing it.... with fixes ranging from sticking a toothpick in there to filing the area with thickened epoxy and re-drilling the hole. Or even filling the area with sealant and drilling a new hole nearby (don't hit the hidden screws under the rubrail).

Confusing Leak in Cabin of '95 Sailfish 272

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