Fixing rusty balljoint on end of seacock pushrod

C

choogenboom

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GW likes to use a steel ball joint on the end of the pushrod used to open/close the seacocks that are deep in the bilge. Both by 1994 228 G and my 2004 330 Express had exactly the same steel balljoints and they all failed the same way - they rusted out. In fact the 2004 boat rusted out after only 4 years. They will first seize up and then when you push hard on them they break off. Unless you have really long arms (which I luckily do) you will not be able to reach your seacocks. In the case of the 330 Express best case that means you can't use the generator or AC and worst case is your boat sinks.

Rhetorical question - what experienced boat builder use steel for a critical mechanical component in the bilge? GW should be ashamed of themselves. I called and complained pointing out that if it fails catastrophically after 4 years and both my 1994 and 2004 had the same part they must have known for at least 6 years that the part was unsuitable for marine use yet they kept using it. They said they were aware ofthe problem but they said that no one made the part in stainless. It took me all of 10 minutes to find a nice stainless steel direct replacement for the GW standard steel ball joint. Cost is $11. I just installed these in my 330 Express. Here is the link to them

http://www.mcmaster.com/itm/find.ASP?ta ... =59915K483

Not only do they have them in stainless they have them in nylon as well.
 
Good to know they have fixed this. Such a small $ item that can cause big headaches. I wish that when I called GW customer service about this they had offered to send me replacements.
 
I was bringing a 29 Blackfin FB diesel up from Wilmington, N.C. some years ago. On the trip, while backing into a spot between two other boats at the fuel dock, when I went to take the engines out of reverse, one wouldn't budge! Stuck in reverse. Talk about exciting! Pucker factor went from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds.

With brute force, and a lot of luck, I got it out of reverse with not a foot to spare. The problem turned out to be badly rusted steel balljoints on the ends of the shift cables, at the transmission!

Made temp repairs, and about 2 hours later I was on my way. Blackfin! Who would have thought? Check everything. Twice.
 
GW did change both the design and material for the bottom ends of the reachrods.

I have a pair in hand now and will be changing them this weekend, when I replace the livewell pump. Both jobs are in the same area, and are a PITA to access.

Brian
 
FTR: I spoke to David Neese about these. They were supposed to be SS and work fine in the bilge. After many failures GW switched to a more simple Y clip which doesn't use a spring load ball. David shared several stories about OEM parts that did not meet the required specs.

The difference with GW is that they replaced mine at no cost.
 
I had mine break, but I can reach it with my arms on my 265 Express. I called Grady and my local dealeer, both were worthless in getting me a part number, both said I needed a whole new sea cock when I only needed the steel joint, I gave up for the time being and decided to enjoy the boat and do the leg work when the boat is out to get the part. The girl I spoke with at Grady was clueless to what I was talking about and my local dealer said that is not uncommon, unless you send a picture and your HIN they often cannot figure anything out. I figured McMaster had something that would fit, I will have to check them out. The link does not work for me, do you have a part number by chance? Thanks.
 
ocnslr said:
GW did change both the design and material for the bottom ends of the reachrods.

I have a pair in hand now and will be changing them this weekend, when I replace the livewell pump. Both jobs are in the same area, and are a PITA to access.

Brian
Click to expand...

A bit tired and sore from hanging down through the aft seat to work, but changed both rods and the livewell pump today. About five hours, and I'm sure it would have cost me a LOT of $$$ to have it done.

Very difficult to get the old pin assembly out of the lever on the seacock. Found that it was far easier to remove the lever, with one 11/16 nut holding it on. But it was a LONG reach down there... :D

Brian
 
gradyfish22 said:
.. do you have a part number by chance? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Here is the GW part for the new rod assemblies, everything from the ball on the top to the new fork and pin arrangement on the bottom.

This is from an email I received from GW Customer Service.
"The G-W part number for the new style rod and connector is 11-524 and can be purchased through Norfolk Marine."

Brian
 
Brian, Thanks I will check that part to see if it mathceds mine, if not I may replace it to the new style if I can.

Tom
 
Sorry my link did not work.

A stainless ball joint can be found at

www.mcmaster.com and part # is 59915K483

pretty sure this link will work - http://www.mcmaster.com/itm/find.ASP?ta ... =59915K483

Brian - I had to do the same thing. I removed the seacock lever by removing the 11/16 nut and then wiggling the lever off. Long arms are a must for this! I also removed the aluminum bracket/guide (two phillips screws into the bulkhead) and took the whole thing to the vise in my garage to get it apart. I used a socket to back it up and the jaws of the vise to force the old ball joint out of the seacock lever. It came out with no trouble. To get the old ball joint off the end of the pushrod I used a pipe wrench on the ball joint and my vise to hold the pushrod; this also came apart without much trouble.

To attach the new ball joint to the seacock lever I used a 5/16" bolt, some washers and some nuts - all SS of course.

I don't buy GW's finger pointing at their supplier (part is a Conbraco "Apollo" valve I think). Assuming no one at GW did incoming inspection or approval inspections (which they should have) then GW could have unkowingly installed the steel parts. But given they were in my 1994 GW 228G and they failed after 4 years in my 2004 330 Express I think its fair to say they were getting reports of failures by 1998. I suspect they were used in years prior to 1994 so likely they knew well before 1998. Bad enough to let it happen in the first place, regardless of cause, worse yet to do nothing about it, but worse yet to not simply say "yup, we screwed up, we're sorry, and here is a free replacement part that is marine quality" and instead claim its someone elses fault.
 
I am simply repeating what the Director of Engineering told me. The part was supposed to be stainless steel or a nickle alloy IIRC.

And FTR, I've had two parts replaced in the past year at no cost due to defects. The ball joints (all four) and a cockpit shower head which had a crimp failure and would not stay on the hose.

I fully agree GW makes engineering mistakes as all builders do. The customer service when issues are identified is what sets the brand apart from many others. :D
 
choogenboom said:
Brian - I had to do the same thing. I removed the seacock lever by removing the 11/16 nut and then wiggling the lever off. Long arms are a must for this! I also removed the aluminum bracket/guide (two phillips screws into the bulkhead) and took the whole thing to the vise in my garage to get it apart. I used a socket to back it up and the jaws of the vise to force the old ball joint out of the seacock lever. It came out with no trouble. To get the old ball joint off the end of the pushrod I used a pipe wrench on the ball joint and my vise to hold the pushrod; this also came apart without much trouble.

To attach the new ball joint to the seacock lever I used a 5/16" bolt, some washers and some nuts - all SS of course.

I don't buy GW's finger pointing at their supplier (part is a Conbraco "Apollo" valve I think). Assuming no one at GW did incoming inspection or approval inspections (which they should have) then GW could have unkowingly installed the steel parts. But given they were in my 1994 GW 228G and they failed after 4 years in my 2004 330 Express I think its fair to say they were getting reports of failures by 1998. I suspect they were used in years prior to 1994 so likely they knew well before 1998. Bad enough to let it happen in the first place, regardless of cause, worse yet to do nothing about it, but worse yet to not simply say "yup, we screwed up, we're sorry, and here is a free replacement part that is marine quality" and instead claim its someone elses fault.
Click to expand...

I removed the levers by removing the same 11/16 nut. Held the lever with visegrips on the dock and used a hack saw to cut through on the bolt side. Old assembly came right out.

I didn't need to fight those rusty ends off the rods, as GW sent me the entire assembly.

When I spoke to them they didn't claim it was someone else's fault. They exhibited their usual fantastic customer service by sending me the pair of new assemblies, even for a six-year old boat. (I think part of their action was based on how poorly they had designed access to this area, for both preventive maintenance and repair.

Brian

P.S. New rods are about six inches longer than the old ones. Now we don't have to reach down so far to open them.
 
For whatever it is worth, I think I have the new design on my 283 release. There is a long rod with a ball on one end and a fork on the other. THese are used to work the seacocks for the head in the console.

I never use these rods and one day I started to notice a strange rattle or vibration when under power. To make a long story short, the hitch pin had fallen out of one of the clevis pins in the fork assembly and the rod was no longer attached. It is not too difficult to get to the assembly to fix it on the 283 but from what you guys are saying about needing long arms, I would be careful about using this assembly on your boats.

I would suggest you use a split ring or some other device as the hitch pin can be dislodged fairly easily leaving you with a repair to be done again.

I hope this is of help to some of you.

Bob
 
RDCGrady said:
I never use these rods ...

I would suggest you use a split ring or some other device as the hitch pin can be dislodged fairly easily leaving you with a repair to be done again.

I hope this is of help to some of you.

Bob
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. The pin was very tight, but a split ring might have been a better idea.

I hope your "never use" isn't because you leave them open all the time. Much better to make sure they get worked (i.e. cycled) fairly regularly, and a good bit safer to leave closed when not in use - at least if the boat is in the water.
 
Ocnslr...thanks for your response. You are correct about not leaving the seacocks open all the time if the boat is kept in the water. What I should have said was that the lever that fell off was from the seacock for the overboard discharge and I keep that closed all the time....I have never opened that valve. I have no idea why the hitch pin decided to fall off of that connection.
 
My 2001 265 does not have any rods and I have always had to do the long-arm approach. Did they not have the rods in 2001 and is there a recommended retrofit kit?
 
Enough Already said:
My 2001 265 does not have any rods and I have always had to do the long-arm approach. Did they not have the rods in 2001 and is there a recommended retrofit kit?
Click to expand...

I think they were there, but previous owner removed them maybe because they were rusted. An easy way to find out if they were there is check the handles of the valves; they should have a hole at the end of the handle. Also, right above the valves you should have aluminum L brackets with a big (1/2"?) hole in the middle for the rod to go thru. If the brackets were removed, check for a series of screw holes at the bulkhead.
 
Super happy I found this old link. I'm just now looking into replacement options for my rusted out original ball joint. Does anyone have a photo of the GW replacement set up? Or their DIY replacement set up?

Thanks,
Travis
 
update. Grady White will sell just the new replacement piece, this is the clevis pin version, to replace the steel ball joint. 14 dollars.
 
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