Engine Decision Assistance

[Tuna Man]

Recently a good friend had his 2000 Yamaha 250 EFI blow up (seized). He is considering all of his options;
A. Sell boat as is
B. Rebuild power-head himself
C. Purchase new or rebuilt power-head
D. Re-power with new technology
E. Purchase used identical engine

Boat is a 1992 Grady Explorer (SeaV2) in excellent condition. Engine is mounted on factory bracket.

Please offer ideas and suggestions, all are appreciated.

Thank you

 

[ElyseM]

i would check re-power options with 4stroke. if the hull is in excellent condition, i don't think you can get a better time to buy an engine. yamaha is still doing the promo, but notice that they backed down to two years YES. methinks times are starting to get better! ron

 

[Tuna Man]

Thanks for your thoughts.

I would think the Yamaha F250 or perhaps Suzuki 300 would be ideal, unfortunately also the most expensive option. I suspect the gauges, wiring harness (now buss system) and perhaps control will also have to be replaced.

If the new engine is out of the question, what would be your next choice?

 

[ElyseM]

i'm not real big on purchasing anything used, never had good luck. i would opt for a professional rebuild or replacement powerhead.

if he is done boating, i would just sell it as is. if there can't be a new engine, then selling his boat and buying a used one interjects the unknown, why do that?

 

[richie rich]

a new motor will probably cost around 15-20k......you can probably get a complete rebuild by a good engine shop for around 6 or 8k. Also, if your moving up from a 2 stroke to a 250 v6 4 stroke you're adding 100lbs or so of additional weight to the bracket! Check out the E-tecs as well, same weight, more power out of the hole than a 4 stroke...3 year warranty...because if you go new, you'll be changing all your cables and probably your engine gauges anyways so there's no savings sticking with a Yamaha. No maintenance for 3 years too!

 

[gradyfish22]

If he plans to keep the boat for 8-10 years , a repower is the best choice without a doubt, if he might only keep it 2-3 years, a rebuild is more practical, if it is somewhere inbetween, then this gets tricky and really comes down to what makes sense finacially and what hes willing to do. A repowered boat will never retain the engines worth is sold quickly, but will net some more cash then with the original engine is it were running, but will allow for a quicker sale. A rebuild is good, but for how long, and then what. It should get you 2-3 years without problems, then who knows anything is possible. A repower will last you 10+ years, possibly longer with todays new technology. The repower will likely run around $20,000 if staying with the same brand, if going to a new brand, maybe closer to 23k after new instruments and throttles and such. A rebuild would run around $4000 if done himself roughly, at a shop it would run closer to $8000. To me, $8000 is a lot into an engine with older technology, the $4000 is more reasonable but time consuming and nervewracking unless you've done it before. It seems liek your buddy is happy with the boat, if that is the case and hes going to keep it a while, a repower might be in line. To bad it isn;t the end of the season, left over deals would save him a nice amount of money if he was able to find what he is looking for.

 

[Bob's Cay]

I would also consider the condition of the lower unit of the blown engine. If it were high hours or having problems you can add $1500 to $2000 to the equation.

 

[Tuna Man]

He has mulled it over and is leaning toward a new four stroke engine. Most likely Yamaha F250 or Suzuki 300. He will probably do the install himself (he is very good with tools and has a lift at his disposal). Any recommendations where he should buy the new engine? He is willing to travel if the deal is worth it.

Thanks for all of your input!

 

[richie rich]

Tuna Man, installing yourself will save about 5 grand but when I asked the motor rep about that (this was Evinrude) they said the dealer needed to do the hook up not void the warranty...otherwise I'd be SOL if something happened. I was going to get mine through Ed's Marine Superstore.....it would be interesting to hear what the Yamy guys say about that...

 

[Grog]

Unless you go 4 stroke, #1 is find out why it siezed or you're back to your 5 choice question.

If you have the $, and will keep her a while, get a new engine.

If it siezed, I wouldn't rebuild the powerhead, let alone some other shop (I'm sure they will be MANY frozen/snapped bolts). Replacing the powerhead isn't that bad, take a lot of pictures when you dismantle it. If you do, go for a new Yamaha powrhead.

Since we're in the season and you're not going new I'd get a used motor. By the time the old motor is running, you'll loose at least a month of time. A used motor can be hung in a day and you're back on the water. You should be able to pick up another 250 OX-66 for not that much money, I'm not sure about the market for used F250's.

 

[Tuna Man]

Guys,
Thanks for the advise. He found an excellent deal on a brand new Yamaha F250 about an hour away from where the boat is kept. The price with new rigging, gauges, shifter, etc. is about $800 more than one of the best deals available online for just the engine only! With a little luck (and some creative financing on his part) he will be back in the water in about a week to ten days.

He will probably sell the old engine for parts, assuming almost nothing (but the prop) will fit on the new engine.

One other issue that came up was the 'Grady Drive' engine bracket. My friend was planning on having it redone by a local guy that specializes in powder coating as it is pitting pretty good and most of the paint is now missing or flaking off. The Yamaha dealer he will likely do business with offered a very reasonable quote on a new aftermarket bracket. Rough numbers are about twelve man hours labor (my friend would do this part) to remove the old engine, remove the Grady Drive and drop it off at the local guy, and finally pick up the painted drive and install same on the transom. The Yamaha dealer offered the new afteremarket drive for around $1500. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me to have them provide and install a new drive (assuming it is Stainless Marine, or the Hankins (sp) fibeglass type and not some off brand) after removing the old engine and bracket for about $1500. What do you guys think?

Sure is easy to spend someone elses money, I could get used to this...

 

[BobP]

A new F250 would have been the last thing I recommend, unless owner wants to keep boat for many years to come, or take new motor with him when he dumps boat.

Forget rebuild or new powerhead, plenty of used 250 OX66s out there from guys repowering, get them cheap, get two, one for spare parts.

Nonetheless, the used motor is worth plenty, expecially when someone blows a lower unit and dealer wants 3K and 3 weeks (3/3) for the rebuild, you will know when a potential buyer shows up breathing hard and in a hurry.

 

[Grog]

$1500 for the drive and installation? That seems too cheap, I'd be worried. The new drive will have diferent mounting holes so the old ones need to be filled, just that alone is a $100. It may be a D&D bracket they're pretty cheap, just be sure it's prepped the right way (etching primer and awlgrip paint). I'm not even sure if $1500 will even buy a Hermco bracket so I doubt it one of those unless they have a take-off.

 

[BobP]

So what's wrong with the Grady Drive, just needs paint ?

Get a 4-1/2 inch angle grinder with 50 grit paper and grind off all the remaining powercoat, corrosion, and anything else on it, interlux primocon it and topside it with off white above waterline, Trilux below water line.

Then take the family on a 1200 buck vacation.

As tough as powdercoat is, doesn't put up much of a fight and no match for the angle grinder. Wear safety glasses.

You will clear the entire drive to shiny metal in about half an hour. 1/2 hour more with some paper to get the corners, by hand.

On day 1, after clearing, solvent wash it and primocon right when dry, no need for etchant (per Interlux instructions). On Day 2, do topside and Trilux.

No need for sand, soda, or any other blasting services, get the 5 packs of 50 grit (or 36 grit) discs at Lowes, get two of them.

Think of me while enjoying your freebe vacation. Cruises are nice, plenty value in them.

 

[Tuna Man]

Grog and Bob,
He looked online and found that new o/b brackets are more like $2000 to $3000. He is supposed to visit the Yamaha dealer tomorrow and go over all aspects.

Maybe he'll be grinding and sanding instead of having a 'new' bracket installed?

The existing Grady drive is missing paint, pitted pretty good and fills with water after the boat spends a few hours in the water.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[BobP]

Tuna, if the pits are the source of water leaks, then it's probably shot - from unattended galvanic corrosion.

On the other hand, some pits may be more like teenage acne, it will survive just fine, and the leak may be an unsealed lower engine mount bolt, or loose cover plate.

Doesn't take long to figure this out, dealers (in general, especially this time of teh season) don't want to be bothered spending time to save the customer, they just want to get to it and therefore better at doing wholesale replacement work.

He's better off having a surveyer with Grady experience do the inspection and advise him first, then after the decision is made, he can specify the work order for the dealer to quote.

All that is at issue here is his wallet - how thin it's to become !
I prefer mine to stay on the chubby side!

 

[Grog]

If there are deep dimples in the bracket, it's done and time to replace (surface corrosion is OK, well not bad).

Most of the time the water leaks are from the engine mounting bolts. Since he's mounting a new engine that problem will be solved.

 

[Bill_N]

The cheapest way out is to look for a used 250 OX66 and keep the blown engine for parts. That way he keeps the same rigging etc.

Bill

 

[Tuna Man]

He decided on a new Yamaha F250, new gauges, harness, shifter/throttle, etc. He is also getting a new bracket for the engine, not sure what brand but it had to be ordered after it was measured.

After looking at the age of the gauges, wiring harness, oil tank/pump assembly, shifter, flow scan, and outboard bracket he decided he wanted to go new. Can't say I blame him as the boat is almost twenty years old and so are all of these items.

He is considering selling outboard parts online afte he breaks them down into individual components (lower unit, cowling, trim and tilt assembly, VST tank, etc). Any body ever do this?