Air Conditioning and Solar - curious

RussGW270

RussGW270

GreatGrady Captain
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I am just drinking coffee and browsing troub.. er.. thing.. lol

My neighbor got solar on her house a few months ago and was talking to me about it yesterday when the topic of A/C for the boat came up. She asked why not get solar on top of the roof for the boat...

Well, besides the fact it would look pretty ugly lol.. not sure you could add enough friggin panels onto a roof and, honestly... would probably be a nightmare to do, but.. out of morbid curiosity...anyone ever tried it or looked into it?

I do not think I need a/c that badly, but was just curious really. IMO... you would not want those big panels in the way... maybe.. MAYBE if you paid a ton of money and got some sort of ultra thin solar "sheet" (for lack of terminology" that laid out along the entire top....maybe, but imo... would be a heck of a cost.

So, my curiosity of the day :P

Russ
 
The AC is one of the largest loads . You would need a lot of solar panel area to generate enough power, more than you have deck space.
All in all not such a practical idea.
 
I looked up, albeit quickly, a new DometicA/C unit (6K BTU) to see it's specs. It's running wattage is approx 600W, but it's "kick-on" wattage can be as high as 4,300 watts. Google some solar panels and see what they put out. I have a feeling, like SeaSick mentioned, it's not feasible - or you would have seen it done, already.

However... are you planning on sleeping on the boat during the day? I thought you were going to fish during the day? Solar panels don't work so well during the night... ;)
 
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Oh, if it were "me"... would not get a/c at all. Wife is stubborn and will go anywhere I want to go to be with me (yes, she is nuts.. agreed..lol). I took her on a tuna run once.... 36 hour trip. Took us 12 hours to get to the tuna spot and she was sick for 2 days straight.. and then said she will gladly go with me again if I want to go.

The a/c is for her.. and for at night when at the dock.

I saw the wattage, was debating if starting it with a generator and then swapping over to solar would work.

Just thinking of ideas. My plan was to add a Honda generator that could sit on the Bow, eventually, if underway, and only use it when/if needed....Not sure if I would get the 6000btu and that would be enough. Personally... do not care about heat, just a/c. Not sure if I would need a 8000 or 10000 btu.

Anyway, about to get the kids outside and see if I can move the boat so we can clean it...after we vacuum it and get eeeeeeverything off of it.

The weather looks to be under 2ft waves Port Aransas tomorrow.. man.. going to suck missing that lol

R
 
So Russ, When are you going to float your boat? Have I missed something and you have already been out there on the brine? It seems the event so far is all about getting ready. You Must be on the water by now......winter is coming! Looking forward to a report of a wet hull. Cheers, trapper
 
Lol uh, not yet. Bit of contention. Replaced the trailer brakes and right now trying to bleed them and have not been able to get help doing so. Is a 2-person job right now and cannot seem to get the people that want to go out on it to assist. So, going to try to get the wife to help today, then if that does not work, will get a friend coming over tomorrow to help....so, maybe next weekend?

Tomorrow was looking sooooooo nice too.

R
 
If you think about it, your cabin really isn't all that big (cubic feet). A small bedroom at home is larger and a 5K window unit A/C works plenty well. From my world of "Sea Ray" boats (cruisers), 6,000btu is very common size on small cabin boats. If you go larger, I'd try to stick under 10K - like an 8K unit. You don't want to go too big as it becomes inefficient - constantly turning on and off too much.

Google for a 12V fan called "Endless Breeze". I once ordered about 12 fans to the store and tested all of them. Hands down, this was the best one in terms of sound level, airflow and amp draw. We used in on our Sundancer when overnighting.

I know you see people doing it, but PLEASE do not use a portable generator on the boat. ESPECIALLY on the bow. Every year there are people who die from CO poisoning from portable gennys. There are also fuel and electrical issues. I know there are people out there that say "I've been doing it for years and it's fine". But there are also people driving around in their cars without seat belts that say the same thing. Those that say that, quite frankly, are ignorant to the risks. Somewhere on this forum I posted the risks and a much better explanation of "why"... I'll see if I can find it.
 
I am not sure how having a portable generator outside, in the open, would cause asphyxiation inside an enclosed cabin. I mean, I hear ya....but people have generators on their Gradys.. there is no difference if it is installed on a Marlin 300 vs sitting on the bow, outside the cabin. That being said.. I am not sold on a generator at all atm...I am just saying, not buying a generator due to people that do it and die because they were not smart or cautions, is not right. Learning how to protect yourself is the key.

I had 2 portable generators at my cabin on the ranch, before getting electricity installed. We ran them both at night, one for the a/c and one for the lights etc. They were outside, we were not. The time I would run one, if we go that route, is while out fishing and stopped when there is not much of a breeze. The cabin would be sealed off, and we would be on the stern, it on the bow, atop the anchor box, probably.

I do not see a major risk in that... except maybe tripping on it or tying a kid to it and throwing it over :P

So, risks? Yes.... am I worried? not really, but thank you for mentioning it. Right now, a pipe dream and probably not an issue since I do not even have or need an A/C right now.

If I get an A/C, I will do so for the overnight dock, mainly... still not sold on the idea of a loud generator running when underway.

R
 
btw, endless breeze looks like a better solution for underway. Thanks


R
 
I agree that it's important to be aware of, and manage, your risks. But portable generators DO impose different risks than a properly installed genny. For one, when at anchor, boats will always face into the wind. Putting the genny on the bow means the wind will blow the exhaust toward the cabin, where you are sleeping. The exhaust will find it it's way in through - whether through small cracks in deck hatches or by the "station wagon" effect... down into the cockpit and will then actually go FORWARD through the cabin door. This EXACT scenario HAS happened in real life.

Second, an installed genny will exhaust out in one of two places: through the hull side, just above the waterline near the stern or underwater. Both of those locations allow for the breeze to carry the exhaust away from the boat.

Thirdly, you still have the electrical issues (read below).

Have you checked the condition of your CO monitor, by the way? They do expire.

These, below, are not my words... I had copied them from another forum and pasted here - written by a gentleman much more knowledgeable than me:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PORTABLE GENERATORS ON BOATS


Carbon Monoxide

Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.

Uncontained Fuel System Vents

The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.

Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices

The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in or disconnected.

Lack of Continuous Grounding

Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.


The Honda iU series generators are inverters. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not. Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.


The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.


In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume and ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.


If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and the relatively few deaths attributed to CO, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators on a boat. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.
 
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Not worth debating when I do not have one, am not sure if I will even get one, and not sure if I will ever use it if I do, or where it will mount.

That being said, good advice.

R
 
It's not something I'm intending to debate, either. There's just so much misinformation out there (and "I read it on a forum so it must be true" stuff) that I mention it simply for people to be aware of the actual risks. At least this way they know the facts and can better make their own decisions. Some will read information like this and take it seriously - others will read it and decide not to believe it... but I have to wonder if the reason they choose not to believe the facts is because those facts contradict what they would like to do. In other words, ignorance. I'm not speaking directly about you, Russ - just speaking in general, there.

All good, though.
 
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Oh, you are good, Dennis. I am adding this to my “Honey, we need to upgrade the boat to a Marlin or Express” list lol.

In all seriousness, doubt I will be adding an a/c for more than shore power, exploring all aspects, but will rarely need to use it underway.

R
 
Forgive me if I am being too forward, but can't your significant other help bleeding the brakes:)
 
DennisG01 said:
It's not something I'm intending to debate, either. There's just so much misinformation out there (and "I read it on a forum so it must be true" stuff) that I mention it simply for people to be aware of the actual risks. At least this way they know the facts and can better make their own decisions. Some will read information like this and take it seriously - others will read it and decide not to believe it... but I have to wonder if the reason they choose not to believe the facts is because those facts contradict what they would like to do. In other words, ignorance. I'm not speaking directly about you, Russ - just speaking in general, there.

All good, though.
Click to expand...
I am of the i rarwly ran my genny on the big boat cuz of the co2 issue. I opened that hatch and was good with that. Even in GA in July an open hatch at nght was good enough. Had a friend die of co2 poisoning. working on his engine at the dock, had it running but there was not enough wind to mve the exhaust out from under the roof f the dock.. Also a boatus member that have read more of those genny stories ver the years.. Just be aware
 
Mermaid Marine Air, 6,500BTU. I installed it under the aft end of the galley furniture on the port side. Lots of posts on here about it. You could hang meat in there, even in the heat of Virginia and southern Maryland. Worked fine at the dock, and from a Honda EU2000 on the swim platform.
 
Thanks, good to know a 6k will be plenty.
 
At first I got a chuckle from the question, but after thinking about it I began to feel it was somewhat of a dangerous question/post. As for the portable generator I urge you to just look at the restrictions/zoning requirements of installing a residential standby generator. Look at the window, door, overhang, and distance from house restrictions. You will quickly realize there is absolutely no safe place for one on a pleasure craft. Thats the dangerous part. As for using the generator to start and then solar to run, are you assuming the compressor will run continuously? Not sure what will get you first, CO poison or hypothermia. Using solar to generate electricity is complex. Panels generate dc which must be converted to ac ( unless you use a dc appliance) and unless you have a massive array they produce relatively small amounts which is stored and used later. Some panels do have microinverters attached and do produce ac but again a massive array is needed. As for storing most use batteries. I built an off the grid cabin upstate NY. 500 watts of panel, 4000 watt inverter, 400 amp/hr battery bank (8 six volt golf cart batteries wired in series/parallel for a 24v system. In the summer I can run led lights, power tools and a small dorm fridge ad lib. During fall and winter we must be much more careful about using things. Air conditioning is not remotely possible.
So unless you plan on towing a barge to carry your pv array, batteries, and generator you will have to go with a permanent install marine generator/ac system.
 
Wow....Guys, we ask questions to learn.

I have a lot of experience with solar.. so... I think "out loud"...

Also, I seriously doubt anyone would need to worry about a zoning restriction of installing some sort of monstrosity of a residential system on their boat... my guess is they would probably sink the damn boat.. heh

I was discussing a small portable Honda 2200 generator.. one like everyone uses.. and, no.. I do not plan to actually GET one as, frankly.. I do not care to have it running or take up space.. as "I" never plan to go down to the cabin vs fishing.

If I am at the dock, I plan to plug shore power in.

Can I install a solar system? Probably.. but, it would be bulky and a pita... honestly.. unless I pay an exorbitant amount for ultra thin solar sheets,...which I am too cheap to do.

So, relax.. breathe...I was just yakking. I have bigger fish to fry.

I would imagine someone has tried all of this, but they probably would not say anything, just like some folks have installed generators.. but refuse to discuss it for fear someone is going to tell them how dangerous it is.

I think the thing to remember is we can caution people, but we might not want to make it sound like the entire world will come crashing down if they decide to do it.

Generator - bad... fumes.. unpredictable.. people can and have died. Gotcha.

Solar - too expensive to get the amount of watts you need.. nowhere to actually put the panels.. gotcha.

done .. and no-one is the wiser.

Heh

R
 
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