19 year old fuel lines

[max366]

I pulled the gas tank cover on my 2004 265 Express to change the fuel lines. (Thanks to all the tips on my earlier posts about doing this)
I changed all the lines with new Shields A1-15 lines. Not too difficult to do.
After looking at the old lines, while the outer surface was dirty, the inside looked good and not a crack to be found. So I cut open a random segment to check the inside more closely - looks like new. See the picture. I was able to find the label on the old hose and, true to how Grady builds a boat, they used a high quality line. I think they would have worked for many more years, but with only $100 for new hose and about 4 hrs, I have peace of mind!

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Where are you located at? I oftentimes wonder about climates, freezing or snow and so forth as to how they effect things like fuel lines, cracking or rigidity.

 

[seasick]

I would think that heat is the bigger enemy in general assuming that the lines are blocked from sunlight in which case, UV rays are biggest factor.

Although the original lines look good , I expect they are more brittle due to aging. In addition, often the hoses become more permeable meaning that they don' exactly leak liquid fuel but can allow vapors to pass through the walls of the hoses. That is why many boaters often smell gas but don't see any leaks.
Same goes for sanitation hoses. That can cause bad odors way before they leak dirty water.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

The freezing cold winters that a lot of the country get seem to me like it would make the rubber fuel lines more cracked and brittle than the heat would, which is why I was curious where the OP is located.

 

[max366]

The boat is in Falmouth MA. The lines I pulled out were all very flexible and I checked all 4 and didn't see any cracks even when I bent them. I didn't yet do the lines from the selector valve to the primer bulb and I suspect that UV has affected them. That's a project for another day!

 

[DennisG01]

I agree Seasick - heat is worse than cold. Definitely. Cold doesn't hurt rubber - heat weakens it over time. The rubber would of course be stiffer in the cold - but not to the point of it being a problem... besides, once the hose is in the boat it doesn't really move. Even a hose that is exposed (on the outside of the boat) during cold weather would be just fine - plenty of boats get used through the winter.

UV would be even worse which is why one would use B1 fuel hose if it's exposed to UV.

You're right, Max, that the hoses probably would last longer but, as you said, it's piece of mind. Plus, one section of it being "good" doesn't always mean the whole thing is good. The interior liner can separate and make a "check valve" of sorts... causing you to pull your hair out trying to figure out why sometimes your engine gets fuel and other times it doesn't.

 

[max366]

Dennis, you're right, a 3" sample out of about 30ft isn't very representative!
You indicated to use B1 hose where it's exposed to UV but from what I can see, A1 is very good. Shields says A1 has a "Weather/UV resistant NBR/PVC cover". Is B1 a better choice? At least the exposed hose is very easy to monitor.

 

[Diad]

This is great! the survey on my 2003 265 showed cracking in the sanitation hoses so that’s where I’m going to focus first. I’m pulling the hatches over the fuel tanks because of moisture and will take a look at the hoses but if no cracks, I’m going to push that project out to next winter based on your findings. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Pfu]

I had issues earlier this year and replaced fuel lines to eliminate potential air intake (posted and assisted on the forum). New lines were peace of mind but did test old lines before disposal. Lines not visible tested OK but from tank selector valves to motors were suspect with one small section clearly having a small crack allowing for air intake (used low pressure air tank).

Gulfstream lived primarily in a rack in Maryland, last two in Vermont. Per a post, easy enough DIY fix, and super glad I did mine.

 

[DennisG01]

You indicated to use B1 hose where it's exposed to UV but from what I can see, A1 is very good. Shields says A1 has a "Weather/UV resistant NBR/PVC cover". Is B1 a better choice? At least the exposed hose is very easy to monitor.

I believe so, yes. But I could be getting the nomenclature wrong or just plain remembering wrong! Take a look at Trident's website or Shields' (I think Dometic bought Shields?). There should be definitive info on their sites about it. If I'm right, though, you would only need the B1 for any section directly exposed to UV.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I agree Seasick - heat is worse than cold. Definitely. Cold doesn't hurt rubber - heat weakens it over time. The rubber would of course be stiffer in the cold - but not to the point of it being a problem... besides, once the hose is in the boat it doesn't really move. Even a hose that is exposed (on the outside of the boat) during cold weather would be just fine - plenty of boats get used through the winter.

Actually cold weather, especially extremely cold weather is worse for cracking and having fluids seep out of rubber hoses than the hot temperatures. Most rubber fuel hoses are made with an outer layer that is heat resistant, though yes when exposed to UV it probably wouldn't help things.

 

[Fishtales]

I’d change them when I repower or 20 years whatever is longer. Maybe a little early but I don’t try to time maintenance activities.

 

[DennisG01]

Actually cold weather, especially extremely cold weather is worse for cracking and having fluids seep out of rubber hoses than the hot temperatures. Most rubber fuel hoses are made with an outer layer that is heat resistant, though yes when exposed to UV it probably wouldn't help things.

It may appear that way, but, no. That is only because the rubber is first weakened by hot temps. Hoses in a boat that is sitting for the winter stay at a relatively constant temperature... or at least are subject to a very slow expansion and contraction rate due only to temperature swings. In truth, all of the hoses we're talking about here don't really see any extreme temp swings (or not "fast" temp swings) like hoses on an engine would. Age gets to the hoses we're talking about before anything else (other than non-UV rated hoses, of course).

 

[max366]

I checked the Trident and Domestic sites and couldn't find a clear answer on the UV resistance for A1 or B1 hose. Both sites indicate that both types are UV resistant. Defender's info says A1 is UV and weather resistant while for B1 it's very resistant. Qualitative info but something. Sounds like B1 might be somewhat better. In my case, I have enough A1 to finish the lines and they're easily checked for deterioration, so I'm going to use it.

 

[DennisG01]

I checked the Trident and Domestic sites and couldn't find a clear answer on the UV resistance for A1 or B1 hose. Both sites indicate that both types are UV resistant. Defender's info says A1 is UV and weather resistant while for B1 it's very resistant. Qualitative info but something. Sounds like B1 might be somewhat better. In my case, I have enough A1 to finish the lines and they're easily checked for deterioration, so I'm going to use it.

I think you're right - any hose made today is certainly better than older ones. As long as it's not too much trouble to replace it?

Edit (hit reply too soon): I don't know that I would trust Defender's info - they're just simple re-seller. I do think you're good to go - but if you WERE interested in better info, I would call Trident directly. Go right to the horse's mouth, so to speak.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

It may appear that way, but, no. That is only because the rubber is first weakened by hot temps. Hoses in a boat that is sitting for the winter stay at a relatively constant temperature... or at least are subject to a very slow expansion and contraction rate due only to temperature swings. In truth, all of the hoses we're talking about here don't really see any extreme temp swings (or not "fast" temp swings) like hoses on an engine would. Age gets to the hoses we're talking about before anything else (other than non-UV rated hoses, of course).

Common sense as well as a quick Google search would prove otherwise. Rubber when it gets cold or really cold in the negative degree temperatures, gets very brittle and will crack, especially after being warm/hot and then cooling down outside in negative degree weather. Also, per Google the average temperature inside of an engine bay on current automobiles are going to be around 400 degrees, maybe even more. Of which the rubber fuel, coolant, heater and other hoses need to be able to deal with. Meaning that once again, the cold weather is going to have a more adverse effect on the rubber hoses than heat will and if the rubber can deal with the 400 degree temperatures inside of an engine bay, then it'll be able to deal with 100+ degree temperatures outside for the weather.

How Does Cold Weather Affect Car Hoses? | YourMechanic Advice

Cold winter temperatures can cause damage to car engine hoses. Inspect car hoses during the cold months to make sure they're in good shape.

www.yourmechanic.com

Taking the heat: plastics under the hood | Automotive World

Increased use of turbochargers, boosting technologies and smaller engines are pushing plastics suppliers such as DSM to their innovative limits. By Xavier Boucherat

www.automotiveworld.com

 

[seasick]

A1 has a fire resistant outside coating and is rated for below the deck applications.
B1 does not have that coating and is used above the deck, for example between a primer bulb and the motor.
Both have UV resistance.
What can be important is to look for the -15 rating meaning the hose is approved for 15% ethanol gasoline.
The requirements for hoses that are not filled with gas all the time can be confusing. Applications would include fill and vent hoses.

What makes things even more confusing is that the USCG requirement for A1 rated hose applies to engine rooms. Since outboards don't count as engine rooms, A1 probably isn't required. Nevertheless, that is what I use for tanks, A1-15 rated lines.

 

[DennisG01]

Common sense as well as a quick Google search would prove otherwise. Rubber when it gets cold or really cold in the negative degree temperatures, gets very brittle and will crack, especially after being warm/hot and then cooling down outside in negative degree weather. Also, per Google the average temperature inside of an engine bay on current automobiles are going to be around 400 degrees, maybe even more. Of which the rubber fuel, coolant, heater and other hoses need to be able to deal with. Meaning that once again, the cold weather is going to have a more adverse effect on the rubber hoses than heat will and if the rubber can deal with the 400 degree temperatures inside of an engine bay, then it'll be able to deal with 100+ degree temperatures outside for the weather.

How Does Cold Weather Affect Car Hoses? | YourMechanic Advice

Cold winter temperatures can cause damage to car engine hoses. Inspect car hoses during the cold months to make sure they're in good shape.

www.yourmechanic.com

Taking the heat: plastics under the hood | Automotive World

Increased use of turbochargers, boosting technologies and smaller engines are pushing plastics suppliers such as DSM to their innovative limits. By Xavier Boucherat

www.automotiveworld.com

Nope.

Rubber in an engine bay breaks down sooner than outside of the engine bay. That's not from any silly googling - that's from being around engines my whole life and working on them. In other words, real life experience. You're welcome to google some more and find more info to back up your thought - heck, you can find anything you want on the internet to back up any theory.

And... 400*? Ha! All of the plastic would melt... the windshield washer fluid would boil over... and more. Silly internet searches return silly answers. If you BELIEVE that the plastic cover pieces on your car engine will survive AT LEAST 400*, go ahead and take one of them and put it in your oven for 30 minutes at 400*. Post the video. Also post the video of your wife instructing you to now buy a new oven. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a case of beer.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Nope.

Rubber in an engine bay breaks down sooner than outside of the engine bay. That's not from any silly googling - that's from being around engines my whole life and working on them. In other words, real life experience. You're welcome to google some more and find more info to back up your thought - heck, you can find anything you want on the internet to back up any theory.

And... 400*? Ha! All of the plastic would melt... the windshield washer fluid would boil over... and more. Silly internet searches return silly answers. If you BELIEVE that the plastic cover pieces on your car engine will survive AT LEAST 400*, go ahead and take one of them and put it in your oven for 30 minutes at 400*. Post the video. Also post the video of your wife instructing you to now buy a new oven. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a case of beer.

I've been around engines my entire life as well and have yet to have a rubber hose line of any style hose go out on me from heat, especially in the engine bay. The few that I have replaced have been at the fuel tank in the rear of the vehicle that goes from the outlet on fuel tank to the hard fuel lines. After XX amount of years it usually gets kinked, stiff and brittle to where I replace it, but that doesn't really have to do with heat or the weather temperatures.

Also, it really depends on the plastic you're using. Check out the following link and you'll see how most plastics have a melting point at close to 200 degrees celsius and above, which is over 400 degrees Fahrenheit. Which you're wrong again, do a little research first as opposed to just going off of your opinion.

Melting Point of Plastics | The Ultimate Guide

Plastic melting point is a crucial factor must be known by every manufacturer and we have explained it here in a detailed manner.

plasticranger.com

 

[DennisG01]

A1 has a fire resistant outside coating and is rated for below the deck applications.
B1 does not have that coating and is used above the deck, for example between a primer bulb and the motor.
Both have UV resistance.
What can be important is to look for the -15 rating meaning the hose is approved for 15% ethanol gasoline.
The requirements for hoses that are not filled with gas all the time can be confusing. Applications would include fill and vent hoses.

What makes things even more confusing is that the USCG requirement for A1 rated hose applies to engine rooms. Since outboards don't count as engine rooms, A1 probably isn't required. Nevertheless, that is what I use for tanks, A1-15 rated lines.

That's interesting. I did a little more digging, as well, and you are right that it seems the primary difference is the fire rating with "A" being rated while "B" is not. Maybe it's the silver coating that some manufacturers use that is typically seen on B1 hose that gives it a better UV rating? You got me wondering, now!