19 year old fuel lines

[DennisG01]

Experience with hundreds of engines (some cars, but mostly boats) in not an opinon.

OK. Do the video. Prove me wrong. And... somehow the windshield washer fluid in cars defy physics?

But, you've really gotten the intent of this thread and discussion about heat/cold on rubber out of whack. As I mentionded above, we're talking about a stationary fuel line that does not see extreme/fast temp swings. Heat will still have a greater impact on the lifespan of the hoses we're talking about than will 0*. The hose will sit happily in it's place, untouched and unmoved, until it's ready for boating season again. Over time, the heat will start to weaken the hose and then if said hose is played with/manhandled in 0* it will be more likely to crack than when it was new.

However, I do agree with you that newer "versions" of plastic and rubber are certainly better than they were many years ago.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Experience with hundreds of engines (some cars, but mostly boats) in not an opinon.

OK. Do the video. Prove me wrong. And... somehow the windshield washer fluid in cars defy physics?

But, you've really gotten the intent of this thread and discussion about heat/cold on rubber out of whack. As I mentionded above, we're talking about a stationary fuel line that does not see extreme/fast temp swings. Heat will still have a greater impact on the lifespan of the hoses we're talking about than will 0*. The hose will sit happily in it's place, untouched and unmoved, until it's ready for boating season again. Over time, the heat will start to weaken the hose and then if said hose is played with/manhandled in 0* it will be more likely to crack than when it was new.

However, I do agree with you that newer "versions" of plastic and rubber are certainly better than they were many years ago.

Your naivety is clearly showing here. Here are the exact same set of spark plug wires that I have on my 1965 mustang fastback, 351w motor and they clearly state they are "heat resistant up to 600 degrees F". What do you think happens to all of that heat, especially when sitting in traffic and not moving? It just sits in the engine bay, especially if its 100 degrees outside or more, you'll get engine bay temperatures that are in that 400 degree range that I mentioned before, or even greater. The water temperature of the engine itself is oftentimes over 220 degrees, uncoated headers put off hundreds and hundreds of degrees of heat, if not over a thousand degrees of heat. That heat, unless you're driving doesn't just magically disappear, and while fans help push or pull the heat away, you still have quite a bit of it, especially like I said above if you're stopped in traffic on a hot day where it's 100 degrees outside or more. There's a great show on YouTube called Engine Masters where they do all sorts of different kinds of dyno comparisons between engines of different sizes, as well as different intakes, exhaust manifolds, headers and more. In one episode they tried different versions of headers and the one was an unpainted, uncoated header that put off temperatures of 870 degrees or more. I urge you to look into the basics like these things as once again your naivety is showing, and if plastic melted at 200 degrees, why don't distributor caps melt? They're made of plastic. I could send you the link for the Engine Masters video on YouTube but I'm sure you still wouldn't believe either myself or the video...

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[Mustang65fbk]

OK. Do the video. Prove me wrong.

Also, I'd rather not have the inside of my house smell like warm plastic for the next several days lol, but thanks anyway

 

[DennisG01]

Mustang, you are 100% correct.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Mustang, you are 100% correct.

I'm sure that you're likely being facetious here but Holley makes spark plug wires that have ceramic boots on them that are able to withstand up to 2000 degrees. Good lord man, for someone that's supposedly been around engines, boats, cars and so forth his entire life, I figured you'd probably know at least a thing or two about normal engine/engine bay temperatures and products that can withstand said temperatures. Hence why myself, as well as most of the other guys out there get ceramic coated headers as they bring the temperatures of your headers down from over 800 degrees to less than 200 degrees or so. I'd highly recommend you watch the video linked below, it talks about headers with different coatings, how it effects engine temperatures as well as engine bay temperatures. Clearly, the distributor cap and other parts of the engine haven't melted off in the video when the headers were 870 degrees. Good luck...

ACCEL 9022C Spark Plug Wire Set - Extreme 9000 Ceramic Boot - Ford 5.0L w/ EEC-IV 83-93

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[DennisG01]

What does silicone and ceramic have to do with a simple rubber hose? To be honest, I figured you were going to bring that up and was waiting for it.

What does the temp of a header have to do with something on top of an engine that's being cooled by air and coolant?

You still haven't answered basic things like why doesn't the washer fluid boil over? Why doesn't the tank start to melt? You're welcome to do some googling to see the melting point of HDPE. I am POSITIVE that it is nowhere near 400*... and I don't need google to tell me that.

And back on point... what does all this stuff you keep bringing up and posting videos about (no, I don't need to view them) have to do with rubber? It's an interesting attempt at justification, that's for sure.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

What does silicone and ceramic have to do with a simple rubber hose? To be honest, I figured you were going to bring that up and was waiting for it.

What does the temp of a header have to do with something on top of an engine that's being cooled by air and coolant?

You still haven't answered basic things like why doesn't the washer fluid boil over? Why doesn't the tank start to melt? You're welcome to do some googling to see the melting point of HDPE. I am POSITIVE that it is nowhere near 400*... and I don't need google to tell me that.

And back on point... what does all this stuff you keep bringing up and posting videos about (no, I don't need to view them) have to do with rubber? It's an interesting attempt at justification, that's for sure.

Because you seemed to insinuate above that engine bay temperatures of 400 degrees would melt anything that's made out of plastic or rubber, which simply isn't the case.

Heat rises? The heat from the engine, headers and so forth is going to go up to the top of the engine bay just underneath the hood, which depending on the make of engine that you have, that's typically where the distributor is.

First of all, another quick Google search would answer your question about windshield wiper fluid, which has a boiling point similar to water at 100 degrees celsius or 212 degrees Fahrenheit. Automobile manufacturers also typically put the reservoir away from any heat sources, I know on my car it's in the front side close by the tire/wheel. Finally, there's a huge difference between conductive heat which would be something directly touching a heat source vs radiation heat. Conductive heat would obviously be directly touching a heat source, like headers for example. But unless you're directly touching the headers, you're not going to have the same heat that it will, which is why you could have headers or exhaust at 800 degrees or more and the engine bay at 400 degrees. Also, there are different heat levels and different parts of the engine bay at different temperatures, like I mentioned before how heat rises. Just because the engine bay is at 400 degrees doesn't mean everything else inside the engine bay will be and the windshield wiper fluid reservoir isn't touching a heat source like the headers, nor is there conductive heat touching it typically to anything hot. Which is the reservoir doesn't melt and the fluid doesn't boil. Now if the reservoir was touching the headers or something else then it would likely melt, depending on how hot the headers got, or boil the fluid inside. But again, there's a reason why automobile manufacturers put things in the engine bay where they do to avoid excessive heat.

It has to do with your comment earlier about how you said hot weather effects rubber more than cold weather does, which simply isn't the case, especially extremely cold weather.

 

[DennisG01]

I'm well aware of ceramics (I did ceramic headers, for the first time, nearly a quarter century ago), silicone, the dyamics of conduction, radiation & convection and the 2nd grade science lessen of heat rises.

When you said that temps in an engine bay are 400*, that statement comes across as the entire engine bay gets to that temp. It does not.

But back on point (again)... over time, heat destroys rubber at a molecular level causing it to loose it's elasticity and even sometimes causing it to feel more like plastic. Over time, the thermal dynamics of temperature changes will have an increasingly greater impact on it's life. In a nutshell, heat attacks the rubber to the point where the extreme cold causes the rubber to crack since it has lost it's elastacity because of the heat. The heat starts the problem - the cold sometimes finishes it.

Perfect example... seen many, many times... hoses/rubber gaskets near the top of an engine fail sooner than hoses near the bottom. The closer the hoses are to hot spots, the sooner they fail. Real life.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

When you said that temps in an engine bay are 400*, that statement comes across as the entire engine bay gets to that temp. It does not.

But back on point (again)... over time, heat destroys rubber at a molecular level causing it to loose it's elasticity and even sometimes causing it to feel more like plastic. Over time, the thermal dynamics of temperature changes will have an increasingly greater impact on it's life. In a nutshell, heat attacks the rubber to the point where the extreme cold causes the rubber to crack since it has lost it's elastacity because of the heat. The heat starts the problem - the cold sometimes finishes it.

Perfect example... seen many, many times... hoses/rubber gaskets near the top of an engine fail sooner than hoses near the bottom. The closer the hoses are to hot spots, the sooner they fail. Real life.

I never said or even suggested that the entire engine bay is going to be 400 degrees, you assumed that.

Prove it, all I see here is your opinion and you haven't linked anything or proven anything other than a bunch of talk. At least I linked a few different things that go along with what I have to say, even though you may not like it. It also sounds like you're making up a bunch of different things to try and make yourself sound smarter.

Well... that's engine heat and of course heat rises, as I mentioned before. So of course the hoses at the top of the engine are going to be effected more than the ones near the bottom or away from heat sources. Also, engine/engine bay heat clearly isn't/wasn't the initial argument, it was differences in weather - hot vs cold. I said that cold weather, especially extreme cold weather is going to be more adverse to rubber hoses, will make them crack and become brittle than hot weather will. It is especially bad when an engine is at it's operating temperature of over 200 degrees for hours and you then you park the car outside in negative temperatures, then keep doing that day in and day out for months of out the year. Lastly, of course a rubber hose subjected to say 400-500+ degree temperatures on a consistent basis is going to potentially have more failure issues than one at say 150 degrees. That was never the argument, the argument once again was weather temperatures and which is worse for hoses. Which the answer to that is extreme cold temperatures are much worse than even extremely hot weather temps.

 

[DennisG01]

I'm not even sure I know where to begin. But I do know how to make my life easier. I'm going to heed the advice that a couple members suggested to me.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I'm not even sure I know where to begin. But I do know how to make my life easier. I'm going to heed the advice that a couple members suggested to me.

I wouldn't know where to begin either if I was trying to debate something that was vastly incorrect, but I guess I'll wait for some sort of proof of your claim other than your "experience or opinions", whenever that might be. Good luck

 

[max366]

Sorry this back and forth started. My original post was just to say that Grady used top quality fuel hose and to inform folks that it appears the hose has held up quite well for 19 years. Everyone is trying to be helpful and I appreciate the input. Seems like the take home message is to use the best quality fuel hose, A1-15 or B1-15, no matter where the boat is docked.