192 Repower Question

[MashpeeMan]

I have a 2001 192 with a 150hp Yamaha HPDI 2 stroke. I love the boat but I'm looking into re-powering over the winter and my mechanic recommended that I look into going to a Tohatsu 140 4 stroke as a lightweight replacement to the current 150 4 stroke. He said that the few lost HP will be offset by the weight difference (of the lightweight Tohatsu) and he said it's a very good motor. He recommends the lighter weight for helping to keep the scuppers above water (which is occasionally annoying even with the current 2 stroke). Anybody have any strong opinions one way or another before I proceed? His advice seems to make sense and the pricing on the Tohatsu seems very reasonable. Thanks for the help!

 

[PointedRose]

I believe Tohatsu is now making basically the same engines as Honda. They seem to be a little cheaper and more available than Yamaha Mercury and Suzuki. Historically Tohatsu made smaller engines (Nissans were also Tohatsu). I personally don’t think there would be much of a difference between 140 and 150.

 

[seasick]

Why are the scuppers below the waterline "occasionally"? That may be an issue that will continue to be of concern with a new motor.
How satisfied are you with the current engine performance?
I have no hands on with Tohatsu 140 so I can't comment other than it is a fairly light motor that weighs about 80 pounds less than your 150 HPDI. On paper that sounds good.
Make sure our pricing included instrumentation and controls/cables including steering if the system is mechanical.

The Yami 200hp I4 would increase performance. It is about 12 pounds heavier than the 2 stroke HDPI. Normally that shouldn't make a big difference but you would be well advised to add hydraulic steering which will add cost and some additional aft weight.

 

[MashpeeMan]

Thank you both. Generally the scuppers are currently fine except when I have a few people on the boat and everybody steps into the back. I put some of the plastic ping pong ball attachments on so it's not really an issue... but they certainly are right at the waterline.

I've been very happy with the performance of the 150 and honestly don't think I need the extra power of a bigger engine... if the 140 will give me similar performance to the current motor (with presumably better fuel economy and a quieter run) that will be good with me. As it is now the boat easily gets on plane and with 1 or 2 people trimmed up I get to a little bit over 40mph WOT which is fine for me. The mechanic also recommended the Tohatsu for its 5 year warranty and he said he likes re-powering with them because aside from the lower cost he said that dealing with Yamaha is like trying to deal with Ford, whereas he has a direct line to the President of Tohatsu North America if he ever has an issue (he's a Yamaha, Honda, and Tohatsu dealer). What I'm most leery about is that I hadn't heard of Tohatsu before.

 

[DennisG01]

Tohatsu has been around for many, many decades. They were initially produced for the fisherman of Japan as a "get it done" kind of engine with no frills. For a while some of the smaller Mercs were using Tohatsu engines blocks. I wouldn't hesitate to use one.

It's not going to eliminate your "occasional" water-entry issue, though. A few guys in the back will always load it down.

 

[MashpeeMan]

Appreciate the advice/help. On further review I'm probably going to go with the Honda 150. It's the same weight as my current Yamaha 150 and for a few thousand $ more I think the Honda name may be worth it. The warranty is also non-diminishing on the Honda (not the case on the Tohatsu).

 

[MashpeeMan]

As an update to this I got a very helpful note back (and subsequent email conversation) from GW because I ran the question by GW corporate to see what their thoughts were regarding the weight differential (the Honda weights a few pounds more than my current Yami 150 and the Tohatsu only weighs 392 lbs (approximately 85 lbs. lighter than the Honda). The GW rep. said, "the lighter the better" because the scuppers in my boat are so close to the waterline. She said that in 2002 (one year later) they moved the fuel tank forward to compensate for the engine weight. I'm thinking that losing that 85 lbs. off the transom, saving approximately $4K with the less expensive Tohatsu, is probably worth losing the 10 HP.

 

[seasick]

As an update to this I got a very helpful note back (and subsequent email conversation) from GW because I ran the question by GW corporate to see what their thoughts were regarding the weight differential (the Honda weights a few pounds more than my current Yami 150 and the Tohatsu only weighs 392 lbs (approximately 85 lbs. lighter than the Honda). The GW rep. said, "the lighter the better" because the scuppers in my boat are so close to the waterline. She said that in 2002 (one year later) they moved the fuel tank forward to compensate for the engine weight. I'm thinking that losing that 85 lbs. off the transom, saving approximately $4K with the less expensive Tohatsu, is probably worth losing the 10 HP.

They moved the tank forward to compensate for what engine weight. Was the standard motor for 2002 model year the 4 stroke? I actually thought it was a bit later. The 208 bare hull got 200 pounds heavier at one point in time and I always thought that was due to extra weight aded up front to compensate for the4s weight.

 

[MashpeeMan]

They moved the tank forward to compensate for what engine weight. Was the standard motor for 2002 model year the 4 stroke? I actually thought it was a bit later. The 208 bare hull got 200 pounds heavier at one point in time and I always thought that was due to extra weight aded up front to compensate for the4s weight.

Not exactly sure (or sure if what she told me was absolutely correct in terms of when they moved the gas tank forward... she stated 2002). My OEM engine is a 150 2 stroke HPDI that weighs 475 lbs. The specs allow up to a 200 for that model year... but I'd imagine that the scuppers would be under water with that weight. I never had any issues with the weight of the 150 other than at anchor with people sitting in the back... and with the ping pong ball contraptions I installed last summer even then (with extra weight in the back) it wasn't an issue. But I definitely can see the benefit of taking 85 lbs. off the transom.

 

[DennisG01]

Thinking more about that weight... the question that comes to mind is "WHY is the Tohatsu so much lighter. What is it MISSING to account for that much weight difference?" 85lbs is a huge difference. I still stand behind what I said about Tohatsu being a fine engine - but that much difference in weight (Tohatsu is not a "high tech, latest and greatest" type engine) does make me start to second guess whether it's the right choice. Mercury has been doing a lot of innovative design and building lately and Tohatsu is even about 60lbs lights than the Merc.

Notice that I'm purposely not giving a hard and fast suggestion on which engine to pick - rather, just offering some more info to think about.

 

[MashpeeMan]

Thinking more about that weight... the question that comes to mind is "WHY is the Tohatsu so much lighter. What is it MISSING to account for that much weight difference?" 85lbs is a huge difference. I still stand behind what I said about Tohatsu being a fine engine - but that much difference in weight (Tohatsu is not a "high tech, latest and greatest" type engine) does make me start to second guess whether it's the right choice. Mercury has been doing a lot of innovative design and building lately and Tohatsu is even about 60lbs lights than the Merc.

Notice that I'm purposely not giving a hard and fast suggestion on which engine to pick - rather, just offering some more info to think about.

It's a great question Dennis! It's 10 HP lower so that's got to be worth a few pounds. And their 140 is a relatively new engine (only a few years old at most from what I see) so presumably there's some weight they were able to take off with the newer design. But 85 pounds is a lot of weight for a very similar output. I'll be speaking with the mechanic again soon to get further thoughts... they confirmed that my transom is solid and over the next few days they'll check over the rest of the boat just to assure that there's nothing major that needs to be done before I spend the $$$ re-powering. But you hit the nail on the head in terms of why I'm a little bit hesitant on the Tohatsu!

 

[MashpeeMan]

The Suzuki 140 weighs just 410 pounds (just 18 pounds heavier than the Tohatsu) and I believe that their engine has a good reputation... so that's somewhat encouraging.

 

[glacierbaze]

Tohatsu has always been well respected for their small engines. When the boating world started the conversion to small 4 strokes, there were a lot of boats running Tohatsu engines, with other peoples' brand name on the cowling, and still are. They made a lot of small 4s engines, and some mid range DI 2 strokes up to 90hp, IIRC. I don't think they ever made anything over 100hp. All Tohatsus over 50hp have been rebranded Hondas for the last 10 years or so, if that partnership is still in place. Ironic how they made almost everyone else's small motors, and Honda made their larger ones,
The 140 is a new motor, and I am not sure who actually makes it, but Honda also has a 140 now, so you may be getting a Honda, whichever brand you choose.
I ran 90hp Tohatsus on an early Glacier Bay, and they were bullet proof, IMHO. They had a separate fuel tank in each sponson, and oil tanks under the cowlings. One day, I filled the oil tanks to the brim, and fished all day, running about 30 gallons through each motor. I went to refill the oil tanks back at the dock, and the port engine had not used a drop of oil for 30 gallons of gas, while the stbd tank was well down. The bottom of the tank was gunked up, so I removed both, cleaned the tanks and replaced the lines, and never had a bit of trouble from either for the next 3 or 4 years, when I sold it.

 

[wrxhoon]

Tohatsu 140 hp is a 2.0 lt engine , Suzuki 140 hp is 2.0 lt as well (2045 cc) the main reason why they are lighter than Honda 150 hp (2.4 lt). I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Tohatsu if the hp suits your boat and you have a dealer close by.
As for price check to see what you get for the $$, example one maybe digital control hence more $$.