Looking at possibly buying a 1986 Grady White Sailfish with twin 1986 175 hp Johnsons. the boat is in running condition but the seller did mention that the engines ran rough when last used in 2011 and there was a soft spot developing on the fuel tank cover. The boat is an open style transom and has been used the last 10 years on lake champlain. From what i have been able to gather the engines have been maintained yearly by a local marina. Fuel tanks are original and electronics are as well. the positive is that the boat is listed for $3000. just wondering if there are any issues with this model and year that i may need to pay special attention to when looking the boat over.
1986 GW Sailfish 255
- Thread starter GW 255
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Fishtales
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HI,
Gotta keep in mind you are looking at a 27 year old wooden core boat and engines and short money. In my opinion, you need to get a survey to understand what you are getting into. I know $3K is cheap, but it could be much more if the core is bad or something major is coming with the engines which would require a repower. I would pay very close attention to the transom core looking for moisture and/or rot.
Gotta keep in mind you are looking at a 27 year old wooden core boat and engines and short money. In my opinion, you need to get a survey to understand what you are getting into. I know $3K is cheap, but it could be much more if the core is bad or something major is coming with the engines which would require a repower. I would pay very close attention to the transom core looking for moisture and/or rot.
The good news is the cover over the gas tank is easy to fix. The bad news is the notched transoms have a reputation for leaking and that one is most likely shot if it wasn't previously fixed. It may not seem worth it for a $3k boat, but get a survey.
Grog said:
And can lead to rotten stringers as well......the tanks will probably be due for replacement....thats $2000 right there for a 75 and 125 tank install....you will get a good look at the stringers when you yank those out...but this would be the same problem you would see for any boat of this vintage...thats why its only 3k.
Yea i contacted a surveyor to look at the boat as the input i have gotten to this point is that this boat may be a lemon. does anyone have experience with transom replacements on these hulls? how involved is this process?
The open transom makes the core replacement easier than a closed transom with a bracket....Vero Wing did a replacement on his Seafarer...I think he posted his rebuild on here, but its also listed on Boat Builder Central web site...there's a ink in the how to section. If you do it yourself it will probably cost you a couple grand for materials and replacement parts....A few guys had shops do theirs recently and it ran them about $5000.
Has anyone used a composite material in place of the marine plywood to redo the transom or is it best to stick with the wood?
Coosa 26 if you have the $$$$ ......3/4 inch is about $200 a sheet vs $100 for good marine ply like Meranti..vs $60 or 70 for normal Doug Fir marine ply...all will work if done right
Materials you need to do your transom is:
10 yards of 1708 glass.............................90.00
5 gallons of epoxy resin...........................250.00
3 sheets of 3/4 plywood or 3/4 coosa...........300.00 or 600.00
5 lbs woodflour.....................................20.00
1 lb silica............................................30.00
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total................................................690.00 or 990.00
It is not that hard to do it your self if your doog with your hands and ask lot's of questions.
10 yards of 1708 glass.............................90.00
5 gallons of epoxy resin...........................250.00
3 sheets of 3/4 plywood or 3/4 coosa...........300.00 or 600.00
5 lbs woodflour.....................................20.00
1 lb silica............................................30.00
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total................................................690.00 or 990.00
It is not that hard to do it your self if your doog with your hands and ask lot's of questions.
I am hoping that the transom will be in good condition but if its not i have done fiberglass work in the past just not to this scale before. the main question is being that this hull is not the SV2 hull is it still worth going to the effort. I have never actually taken one of these hulls out in ocean swell and chop before.
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS said:
A little more for that hull NEM.....5 gal resin just for gluing the 3 layers of ply...its almost 9 feet wide...plus fillets, plus 5 layers of glass, 1 inside skin, 4 outside skin....so about 15 yards, plus a couple rolls of 6 inch tape and about 10-12 gal resin....youre in for $1500 to start, plus consumables, replacement hardware, paint, caulking and other misc stuff you will do to finish the job.
the hull is a 20 degree flat deadrise, not a variable.....its more stable for trolling and drift fishing but will slap a little more in chop vs the SeaV hull....you should test ride in some chop before buying. But its a solid hull for sure.
Personally, I wouldn't waste the money surveying a $3000 boat. You can get a very good idea of the condition simply from a visual inspection using simple tools like a large screw driver (the handle is the important part here) or hard plastic mallet and a digital camera.
Sound the transom, stringers and hull sides with the screw driver or mallet. A crisp return indicates solid structure. A muffled "thud" indicates delamination and/or core rot. If anything is suspect, ask to drill some exploratory holes so you get visual confirmation of the core condition.
Use the camera to take photos of areas you can't see.
Compression test the motors.
Look at the wiring.
Ask to pull the fuel tank hatch(es) so you can inspect the tanks and more of the stringers.
Doing a transom in that boat is one thing. Stringers are a totally different animal. Pre SeaV2 Sailfishes are a dime a dozen and IMO, there isn't anything special enough about them that makes it worth doing major structural work to a project hull. It it was the inboard 256...then maybe. Just my $.02.
Sound the transom, stringers and hull sides with the screw driver or mallet. A crisp return indicates solid structure. A muffled "thud" indicates delamination and/or core rot. If anything is suspect, ask to drill some exploratory holes so you get visual confirmation of the core condition.
Use the camera to take photos of areas you can't see.
Compression test the motors.
Look at the wiring.
Ask to pull the fuel tank hatch(es) so you can inspect the tanks and more of the stringers.
Doing a transom in that boat is one thing. Stringers are a totally different animal. Pre SeaV2 Sailfishes are a dime a dozen and IMO, there isn't anything special enough about them that makes it worth doing major structural work to a project hull. It it was the inboard 256...then maybe. Just my $.02.
I don't think 1 bucket of resin is enough either, but if the extra $250 is going to kill you don't think about starting.
Unless you really know what to look for, get the survey. The transom isn't that bad if you have a place to work on it, close by. If there is more structural damage than the transom (stringers) or you don't have a close place to do the work, walk.
I have a pre SV2 Sailfish and never rode in newer model. I had a 282 up on blocks next to mine and didn't notice a visual difference in deadrise.
Unless you really know what to look for, get the survey. The transom isn't that bad if you have a place to work on it, close by. If there is more structural damage than the transom (stringers) or you don't have a close place to do the work, walk.
I have a pre SV2 Sailfish and never rode in newer model. I had a 282 up on blocks next to mine and didn't notice a visual difference in deadrise.
GW 255 said:
I've been running my 1987 GW 255 in just about every offshore condition you might imagine for, well let's see, about 26 years. The hull configuration for the earlier models, such as mine, should not even be a factor in your decision ... PERIOD! You've got bigger fish to fry. If you get past the potential transom/stringer issues, you're looking at a repower and new fuel tanks/lines at a minimum if you're thinking about turning an old beater into a seaworthy offshore fishing machine. It can be done, but you better have the checkbook to make it happen. I wouldn't even think about refurbishing the hull as a do-it-yourself project unless I was also prepared to do the motors and the tanks.
Well as long as the engines are not seized from sitting to long or have major internal wear or damage that will not be an issue as i have the tools and skill set to rebuild/repair the engines. I have heard that this hull has a tendency to pound in a head on sea is this true or does the hull do fairly well as long as you aren't trying to set speed records?
GW 255 said:
I think it does very well. There's a saying, "Better than most, not as good as some." That's probably a fair description. For myself, I've got no complaints, as I've learned what works to keep the ride comfortable by my standards: keeping the boat heavy with weight distribution forward by always running the main (forward) tank full and carrying what extra fuel you may need in the aux (aft) tank; carrying a lot of oversized chain in the anchor locker; stowing the portable generator forward in the cabin; and of course, getting on those trim tabs as your speed slows for the conditions. It isn't rocket science, but you do have to pay attention to what you're doing.
Pez Vela said:
Full main tank definitely makes a difference....the area under the main tank is where you will feel it most......and so does the proper use of your trim tabs......that hull likes to cruise in the 25-30 mph range.......you push it above that in a head sea and you will feel the hull slap a little. The newer SeaV hull has more "V" under the main tank area and gradually ends up at the 20 degree transom deadrise...the older hull starts at 20 under the main tank and is constant to the transom.
Richie - "marine plywood" 3/4 inch is well over 100 bucks, 1/2 inch is about 100 bucks. Last time purchased retail on LI about 3 yrs ago.
5 galls total resin incl. hardnener will get the job done for the cutout style transom.
Presuming the outer skin will be reapplied if working from the back of the stern.
Transom is about 2.5 inch thick.
But because of the way gas tank and bilge cover is installed screwed into the stringer heads, IMHO, have to agree very possible stringers and bulkheads may be shot, but are easy enough to figure. Just screw out every other screw and jam down the holes a long ice pick.
5 galls total resin incl. hardnener will get the job done for the cutout style transom.
Presuming the outer skin will be reapplied if working from the back of the stern.
Transom is about 2.5 inch thick.
But because of the way gas tank and bilge cover is installed screwed into the stringer heads, IMHO, have to agree very possible stringers and bulkheads may be shot, but are easy enough to figure. Just screw out every other screw and jam down the holes a long ice pick.
Marine Plywood is a very generic term these days.....I agree, the good stuff will be over $100 at a local lumber yard....I think I paid $140 for a sheet locally that I needed bad and couldn't wait....but if you need a bunch of sheets like 6 or 8 and you need some foam sheets like Coosa or Divinycell and you get it from the same place, a pallet of goodies breaks down to under $100...but you do have to shop around..
As far as the resin? Well, either I'm getting to be a worry wort in my older years or you and NEM are getting cheap, I mean frugal in your years.....
After removing the core on a Sailfish, fixing dings and divots on the inside of the outer skin, laying in a layer of 1708 to replace the material lost during prep work, taping the perimeter to replace some cheap ass polyester putty, then laying in 3 layers of full width ply and end filler strips, all with pre-priming of the plywood with neat epoxy (2 coats) and using a notched trowel to lay up the thickened epoxy, I used 5.5 gallons of resin.....then comes the 4 or 5 layers and tape for the new inner skin of 1708 and 1810.....any other work like battery trays, tying in the stringers, misc fairing putty etc and you'll be in the 10-12 gallon range.....
The notched or cut out transom will give a little reprieve in terms of material, but I don't think it will cut it in half...maybe if you use coosa which doesn't absorb much resin, it will be a little less......but I definitely come form the school of thought that the extra resin will only help, not hurt me......other than my wallet...
As far as the resin? Well, either I'm getting to be a worry wort in my older years or you and NEM are getting cheap, I mean frugal in your years.....
After removing the core on a Sailfish, fixing dings and divots on the inside of the outer skin, laying in a layer of 1708 to replace the material lost during prep work, taping the perimeter to replace some cheap ass polyester putty, then laying in 3 layers of full width ply and end filler strips, all with pre-priming of the plywood with neat epoxy (2 coats) and using a notched trowel to lay up the thickened epoxy, I used 5.5 gallons of resin.....then comes the 4 or 5 layers and tape for the new inner skin of 1708 and 1810.....any other work like battery trays, tying in the stringers, misc fairing putty etc and you'll be in the 10-12 gallon range.....
The notched or cut out transom will give a little reprieve in terms of material, but I don't think it will cut it in half...maybe if you use coosa which doesn't absorb much resin, it will be a little less......but I definitely come form the school of thought that the extra resin will only help, not hurt me......other than my wallet...
I used Meranti BS1088 which is true marine plywood and bought it from Roberts Plywood for 75 for 1/2" and 90 for 3/4".
If you do cut the transom from the outside(back) then you might need couple of more gallons epoxy because you have to built up with 1708 the exterior layer to like 1/4" which is 6 layers of 1708.
If you do cut the transom from the outside(back) then you might need couple of more gallons epoxy because you have to built up with 1708 the exterior layer to like 1/4" which is 6 layers of 1708.