1994 Explorer with a 4 stroke

[Doctorsrh]

I have a 1994 244 Explorer and need to repower. The boat has a notched transom. Does anyone have an Explorer that was repowered with a 4 stroke? I am looking at a Yamaha F250 for the repower, and I'm curious about the weight issues. Emailing GW didn't help, that much. I'm looking for "real world" experience from anyone who has this setup.

Thanks, in advance, for the replies.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

this may get ugly....

g/w was n't much help...why was that???
personally,i wouldn't use that engine due to the increased weight of it...tell ya' the truth,you're asking for trouble going with a 4 stroke...i'm pretty confident a few of you guys are gonna beat up on me...i got an email from grady customer service stating,that they do not reccomend the repowering of older hulls with the new 4 stroke engines,due to the weight...if this is what they told you,i suggest you take the advice given,who would know more about your rig than the people who built it,common sense right...it's like when some know it all decides he's gonna exceed the max hp rating of the boat...it's not a smart idea....

 

[Doctorsrh]

Jimmy,

The boat has a 250 SWS and a 9.9 4 stroke kicker. The combined weight of the 2 engines is a little more than the F250. I would remove the 9.9 kicker if repowering, so I figured the weight would be a non-issue. GW said to make sure the transom was solid and maybe reinforce the transom prior to a new engine.

Also looked at the 300 HPDI, but I'm scared of the things I've read about that engine. Any suggestions?? E-tec??

Also, if outboard engine manufacturers are moving towards 4 strokes, what is an owner of an "older" boat supposed to repower with? With the supposed increase in ethanol in gas in the years to come, will 2 stoke, fuel injected engines become obsolete?

I am waiting to hear if the 250 SWS can be rebuilt while wrestling with the decision to rebuild (if possible) or repower.

Thank you.

 

[gradyfish22]

Yamaha 4 stroke is 604 lbs.
Suzuki 4 stroke is 591 but has been giving some very pleasing fuel numbers.
E-Tec is 530lbs.

I see where you are coming from with the weight side of it since you have a kicker now, weights will be similar. I still feel that putting a 4 stroke on the boat would be pushing it, but could be done. Being that the boat has a notched transom, I have a feeling with all that weight, your scuppers are most likely at the water line or somewhat under it. Also, if you do anything but coastal fishing, or fish in a bay where it does get nasty, I would really be cautious with adding any extra weight. I think your biggest concern is the condition of your transom. The mounting bolts and transom will be holding a bit more weight in the location where the old engine is, you want to be certain it can hold it. If any deterioration of the transom has occured, address it regardless of a repower, but with a four stroke it posses an even worse problem. It seems Grady White does not recommend 4 stroke repowered on any notched transom boats, it seems like less of a problem on older models with euro transoms, granted the transom is in good enough shape to handle the weight.

I guess it is your call, I would not personally repower that boat with a 4 stroke, but if you have been operating it with a kicker and extra weight and feel safe on it, then it is your call. I would never buy a used notched transom boat of any brand that was not designed for four strokes, they will never sit right and even for the inshore waters I fish would just not be safe. If you feel safe with how the boat sits currently, going to a 4 stroke might be feasible. Regardless of weight being the same, I have noticed, boats repowered with four strokes sit slightly differntly, even if weight does not change. It is my belief that the bulk weight of a 4 stroke is slightly further aft in the engine then on 2 strokes. This is just an observation I have made after seeing many repowered boats, figured I would throw it out there so you are not surprised if the boat does sit a little lower at the transom, even if weight on the transom stays the same.

 

[Doctorsrh]

Thanks gradyfish. I don't go offshore, and do feel safe with the notched transom. Our scuppers are not underwater (currently), and even with 2 people on the stern, I can't get water into the boat through the scuppers. I like the idea of 4 stroke, but not enough to compromise the boat or endanger my passengers.

I was hoping someone with an Explorer, with a notched transom, repowered with a 4 stroke to see how they made out, prior to my decision.

I can get a 250 or 300 HPDI, but I'm not pleased with some of the things I've read about those engines.

Shawn

 

[gradyfish22]

I agree the bigger HPDI's were not the absolute best. Most of the kinks were worked out, so if the engine is new or has had some updates to software and mechanicals, it would run fine. I have a 200HP HPDI on my 22' Seafarer and love it, that was one of the best engines Yamaha ever made, but the bigger engines gave all HPDI's a bad rep for a little while. When we repowered, we added about 80lbs going from our carbed 225 evinrude to the 200HPDI. I stood in the cockpit simulating the extra weight, boat barely moved lower. After repowering, the boat was roughly 3/8" lower. Scuppers were not an issue and still above the water, but I was surprised it lowered it more then it did with me standing there. Most important thing when repowering is check your transom. We had it inspected before repowering and there was absolutely no rot. The original owner kept the boat on a lift, and we had seales all the scuppers, screw holes, and the top of the transom where the metal trim is with a sealent, I believe it was 5200. The fiberglass guy who inspected the transom was surprised how great the condition was since most 1989 Grady's are seeing some issues with water in the transom. If your transom needs any work, when you repower is the most convinient time to do so.

 

[Doctorsrh]

Thanks,

After seeing this site and all the issues about transom rot, that is the first thing the mechanic will inspect, and correct, if there is a problem. I'm surprised the boat dropped 3/8", so I'd assume mine will, also.

I do have a new (06 or 07), never been used, 300 HPDI that I can buy. I asked if all the updates were done, so things seemed OK. However, I read that ethanol will be going up to 20% in the next few years. If it does, will the injectors become "clogged" more because of the ethanol loosening "stuff" from the tank, lines, etc, causing more problems with these engines. Or will the added ethanol cause the engine to burn hotter, causing more catastophic powerhead failures??? It seems like 4 strokes will be the only choice in the future. But on my "older" boat, I need the weight of a 2 stroke.

Maybe I need to buy a new boat!!

 

[gradyfish22]

My marina was already using 20% for the last 2 seasons. Ran the HPDI and never had injector problems. I also used ring free on a normal basis, used slightly less then they recommend but clsoe to their recommended dose. Never had a fouled plug or anything close to it. I did notice my plugs only lasted about 130-150 hours as opposed to 200 before the marina switched to 20% ethanol. I honestly think you will be fine, I think problems are from thsoe who are not running the proper filters and changing them out when they should. They also are probably not using ringfree in most cases. I would strongly advise using it with that engine. There are several guys in my marina who have the HPDI's and none that I know have had issues with injectors yet and we all put a good amount of time on the water.

 

[Grog]

I've heard the HPDI 250 is OK after the updates but the 300 still has "issues". Why not try to find an OX-66 250 and mount that one? I'll weigh more than the carb but is more refined.

Who told you the E-20 will cause the engine to run hotter because of debris coming off the tank? If you are running a 10 micron filter that will catch the junk. There were problems when you mixed the MTBE and E-10 but if you're already running E-10 going to E-20 isn't going to react badly in the tank. The older outboards are able to run up to 10 percent Ethanol. Beyond that you will need to rejet the carbs because you'll be running too lean which will cause the motor to run hot and burn up. The injected models will probably need a remap of the fuel curve too.

It'll also be a MAJOR PIA to a lot of cars out there too.

 

[Doctorsrh]

Thanks gradyfish and grog, I'm feeling better about the HPDI's. I think I will get the 250 HPDI. As long as the updates were done, I will feel comfortable with that. I read the 300 HPDI was producing 270 hp, so the 250 should be plenty without going to the 300 HPDI.

I routinely ran ringfree though our carbed 1994 250 SWS, yamalube, and changed filters, often. Didn't know about having to rejet the carbs on the older model. Maybe that's why I'm now in the market for a new engine.

Again, thanks for all the help. I feel much better hearing the real world experiences with the different engines.

 

[hinmo]

I also own a 94 Explorer. I would not put a four stroke on it. I own a 4-strk on another boat, and besides its good points (reliable, gas consumption), its weight to torque ratio is horrible.

I owned a previous boat with a 300hpdi. Once it had the updates, it was great.

I will go Optimax, HPDI or Etec when the older yammie 2-strk I have now dies.

ps - theres a guy on Boston craigslist with a recent model OX66 250, low hours, 25 inch shaft for $7K......if I had the cake, I would pursue this one.

 

[BobP]

The 250 HPDI is the same engine as the 300 HPDI.

Both being the same, weight is about 550 lbs.

I suggest you call Grady on the phone, not email, so you can have a back and forth discussion on repowering. Grday only recommends Yamah, they can no onger recommend the 250 HPDI, so they are at a lost.

Yamaha dscontinued the 250 HPDI from production, already ended the 300 previously, you ought to get a good deal, a very good deal.

Currently, the Yamaha incentives are 5 yr warranties on the 2 strokes, 6 on the 4 strokes - until the end of March, as I recall.

How much heavier is the F225/F250, vs. the 250/300 HPDI?

And price difference on the quote, if you feel confortable stating the figures?

 

[Doctorsrh]

Bobp,

The F250, 4 stroke, is 604 lbs. (or close to it), and the 300 HPDI is 550 lbs.

The boat is in New Jersey, but my quotes are from Florida, and I'll need to have the engine shipped to NJ (around 200-300 dollars).

2007 300 HPDI is 15k, including all rigging
2008 F250 is 14,900 plus 1,400 for rigging

Doesn't include installation costs, in New Jersey.

Hopefully it's a fair price for the 300 HPDI, as I believe that is the engine I'm going to buy.

Shawn

 

[BobP]

Thanks for the info, I see your new here, welcome again.

The 50 lbs is meaningless to me on that boat model.

Now, when you get to know me from my posts, you will realize why I would go ape shit over those quotes, particularly the first one. Another trip shopping for me ! If your still shopping, PM me for some local dealer action !

That's just me, otherwise have fun !

 

[BobP]

Of course I didn't write "Shoot"

 

[Doctorsrh]

Hinmo,

After reading what others said, the 4 stroke is off the engine list.

I like the HPDI and will most likely get the 300 HPDI.

Hopefully, the transom is good, or at least doesn't need too much work to be able to hang the new engine.

My other option is to rebuild the 1994 250 SWS that is on the boat, now. I'll know in the next week if it can be rebuilt. I'm not crazy about rebuilding a 14 yr old engine, but I trust the mechanic, completely, and know that I would be getting a great rebuild from him, if I decided to go that way.

What engine is on your Explorer?? Do you like it?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[hinmo]

Believe it or not, its a 1994 Yammie 200 SWS II. It runs great, pushes the boat comfortably at 27mph at a nice cruise RPM (tops is 35mph). For Buzzards Bay, just getting up on plane most days is your max speed anyway. I dont know its longevity, but my mechanic says "stick with it, they're great motors and its in great shape".

I know its on the underpowered side, but its working out fine.

 

[gw204]

Gather up a list of Yamaha dealers from Yamaha's websites. Shoot them a mass email stating your looking for a leftover new 250 OX66. There's got to be some out there. Travel for it if you have too.

You couldn't pay me to take a 250 or 300 HPDI regardless if the updates were done and warranty was involved. Their sh*tty rep. will kill your resale. It's like trying to sell a boat with 1st generation Optis....

 

[scottg]

You may want to reconsider your concerns about the additional weight of the 4-stroke. The Explorer was available with twins on a grady bracket. The combined weight of two 150's plus the bracket would surely be greater than a single 4-stroke.

With that said, the notched transom may sit too low in the water with a 4-stroke. Call Grady on this one.

 

[Doctorsrh]

Just an update.

Got the 300 hpdi. So far, everything has been great. Power, torque has been better than ever. Fuel consumption has dropped, although that was expected. Had some issues with the dealer who sold me the engine, and those issues still aren't resolved, however, I'm confident that they will be addressed.

Thanks to all who replied to my original post.