1999 Grady 272 Transom

[Barbender]

So I am looking to purchase a 99 272. Has lots of work done to it including newer 4 stroke motors and fuel tanks. However during the survey this was seen in the transom. Moisture meter did not show high levels but was mid way. How much of a concern do you think this is? The boat has been immaculately maintained but this worries me. I am also looking at a 2005 282 but motors are older and much less in terms of electronics

 

[Wild blue]

Definitely an issue, if you love the boat negotiate the fix into the price, it could be a great deal if the seller is willing to negotiate with you,

 

[seasick]

What make and model moisture meter did the surveyor use? It should but often isn't listed in the report so you might need to ask.
Did the survey tap around the suspect areas?
There definitely is water in the transom but how sound or rotten the coring might be is the question.
I don't like the way that transducer ( my guess) wire was run. There does not appear to be any sealant on the inside but more importantly, how the the other side look and where did the cable come out?
The caulk on the engine bolt looks newer that the rust trails. In addition the sealant looks doesn't look like squeeze out but looks like sealant was applied to seal off leakage.
In summary, i am not sure I would classify the boat as 'immaculately maintained'.

The transom in my opinion is compromised and could need expensive repairs.
What did your surveyor say about it?

 

[Barbender]

Thank you for the reply. The boat was repowered in 2018 hence the newer calking. See attached photos that may answer your question.

 

[Barbender]

 

[seasick]

That meter is not designed for FRP material. It is meant for wood, and other building materials like wallboard and cement board. When a meter like that type is used, if it reads in the 10 to 15% range for moisture, a marine meter for FRP would indicate just about 100%. In other words soaked.

Although the caulking could be from the motor swap, I have my doubts, not just from the color but from the caulk trails. Those pointed trials to me mean that the caulk was applied after the motor bolts were installed.
I didn't mention in my earlier post that there is evidence of compression of the areas around the motor bolts. That is an indication of a soft core

 

[DennisG01]

Seasick - I think your comment regarding caulk application (timing of it)... I actually think what we are seeing is the washer being pulled into the glass (soft core) which allows the caulk to squeeze out over the washer much more so than it would normally do. While it isn't uncommon on an older boat to have the core compress some - we certainly wouldn't want it to be excessive.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Seasick - I think your comment regarding caulk application (timing of it)... I actually think what we are seeing is the washer being pulled into the glass (soft core) which allows the caulk to squeeze out over the washer much more so than it would normally do. While it isn't common on an older boat to have the core compress some - we certainly wouldn't want it to be excessive.

isn't "UNcommon"...

What you are looking at is not uncommon for a 20+ yo boat that stays in the water. The washers on the inside bolts often crack the gelcoat and glass of the inner transom.
The glass is not flat even when brand new. The washer comes tight on a high spot and then crushes as its torqued to 50 ftpounds.
Its worse after a repower because the bolts have been removed and then tightened again in a slightly different spot.

Can anyone say from the picture that the transom is shot and needs to be replaced?-- NO. ...And they can't say it is fine, don't worry.
Water has leaked. You can see that. I would pull those bolts because they have crevice corrosion.
Wet doesn't mean shot, necessarily. That transom is 3" thick and reinforced with an aluminum bar.

The 2005 you are looking at might be better or it might just be hiding it better...

Here is an unspoken secret. If you own a 20+yo boat(not counting trailer queens), you really have no idea when the day will come...
Thats in the price of an old boat. If you don't want to worry, pay another $50K for a much newer boat or another $200K for a brand new one.

When you get over 30 you have a real hot potato.

The worst part is that, until its so obvious its moving, you can't know for sure without tearing it apart.

 

[DennisG01]

isn't "UNcommon"...

Thank you, yes. I fixed it.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I generally try to go for as new of a boat as I can considering that the difference in 6 years can oftentimes be quite a bit with regards to numbers of past owners, possible neglect, amount of repairs done or not, repowered boats and so forth. I'd maybe look at the 2005 and see what it has to offer, of which you mention the motors are older and the electronics aren't as great. Which imo would mean spending less money up front and then getting the electronics you want later on. The pictures you posted are a bit concerning, especially the deep rust colored water trails, which would imo indicate there has been an issue of water intrusion for quite sometime. What did the surveyor have to say about everything?

 

[Fishtales]

It's a 1999 hull. GWs are known for this issue. Run unless you have $10K to toss at it. Once opened it's like cancer in a 30 year old smoker's lung - there likely is more you'll have to fix.
The compression of the bolts says it's been there a long time. The core is likely 100% shot.
I can't believe that an installer and owner would install new engines on a suspect hull. WTF were they thinking except, "hurry up put this together and get it sold".

 

[seasick]

Just to keep the discussion going, I am sticking to my assessment.
The caulk that looks like it ran down was applied after the bolts were installed. Yes, the bolts and washers probably were installed a while back and may have been bedded but the thin strands of sealant on the bolt heads on the right bolt as well as the strands that you often get when dispensing sealant on the washer tells me the current sealant was added later. It's harder to see the left bolt but that looks like it has sealant smeared over the bolt head.
I don't have as strong a conviction about the compression of the core. It's tough to tell but the crack on the bottom right that runs straight to the stringer may be a clue that the inner shell of the transom has flexed. One other clue to the transom condition is the upper area above and around the right side of the washer. I can't be certain but it looks like the fiberglass shin is proud (raised) of the surrounding area. If that is true then the bolt may have moved inward from outside to inside. That could indicate that the coring is soft. The extent of any softness and/or rot can't be determined without more investigation. The OP didn't mention what the newer motors were at least HP wise nor what the original motors were and their ratings. It is possible that the transom was over stressed from use , added weight or additional thrust.

 

[Barbender]

Thank you all. The newer power is 225 HP Suzuki 4 strokes (2018). Based on the comments here I did reduce my offer by $10k based on this but the seller is only offering $2500 down. The original price we discussed was $60K but he will now come down to $54K and remove some items that were initially on the boat (outriggers and Rhodan trolling motor). So it is not really that attractive. The surveyor was a bit vague and to be honest it was a frustrating experience at times because some things were missed and he ended up having to go back after I asked him about it. However he did suggest that the transom issues "could be" significant but never really confirmed it either. I think we was a bit worried about offending the seller. The 2005 is going to most likely be my target since there does not seem to be any transom issues and is in decent condition (lift kept).

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Thank you all. The newer power is 225 HP Suzuki 4 strokes (2018). Based on the comments here I did reduce my offer by $10k based on this but the seller is only offering $2500 down. The original price we discussed was $60K but he will now come down to $54K and remove some items that were initially on the boat (outriggers and Rhodan trolling motor). So it is not really that attractive. The surveyor was a bit vague and to be honest it was a frustrating experience at times because some things were missed and he ended up having to go back after I asked him about it. However he did suggest that the transom issues "could be" significant but never really confirmed it either. I think we was a bit worried about offending the seller. The 2005 is going to most likely be my target since there does not seem to be any transom issues and is in decent condition (lift kept).

Sounds like it's all for the best that you are walking away from this one, which is frustrating as I've been in this position before to where you pay a surveyor to go out and inspect a boat but it's not in the condition it was advertised as being in. It's also quite infuriating that you are paying to have a surveyor come out and look over the boat multiple times and/or feel like they didn't do a great job. I'd be asking for some money back from the surveyor as they're supposed to represent you. He shouldn't be worried about potentially offending the seller as the boat is in the condition it's in, the surveyor doesn't have any control over that. His job is to find any and all issues with the boat, so that you get something in the condition it's supposed to be described as being in. If you didn't, I'd look up a competent surveyor for the next potential boat by using one of the two websites below.

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www.namsglobal.org

 

[SkunkBoat]

It's a 1999 hull. GWs are known for this issue. Run unless you have $10K to toss at it. Once opened it's like cancer in a 30 year old smoker's lung - there likely is more you'll have to fix.
The compression of the bolts says it's been there a long time. The core is likely 100% shot.
I can't believe that an installer and owner would install new engines on a suspect hull. WTF were they thinking except, "hurry up put this together and get it sold".

the 2018 motors were installed 5 or 6 years ago. i don't think anyone tried to hide anything.
The sealant is just what squished out when they installed it. Then they turned a wrench and some got messed up...
Could they have done a better job sealing the lower bolts?...yes.
Could Grady have done a better job finishing the inside skin of the transom and sealing the transom cap?...yes

Could it be that the owner noticed the rust and decided he got 6 good years and maybe time to move on?...yes

Can anyone say that the core is 100% shot by looking at that picture?....

Is there a fair price for a 99 272 hull with 2018 Zukes and some rust stains and decent electronics and whatever?...that someone is willing to pay knowing that it may/will need transom work someday?...yes
Should everyone buying/selling a 20yo boat understand that?...yes

The 2005 with no signs of rust MAY need to replace 20yo motors soon...and 20yo electronics? It may show transom signs in 5 years....

You gotta price things separately and come up with a price you are willing to pay. Part of that price might be your TIME
Price wise, 20yo motors come close to offsetting a questionable transom.
An unpainted hull on trailer/ lift adds some significant value.
20yo electronics=$0
you get the drift...

if you don't want to do any work on it yourself, buy some golf clubs.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

the 2018 motors were installed 5 or 6 years ago. i don't think anyone tried to hide anything.

That could be a pretty broad assumption considering we don't know the entire story here and until the OP confirms, the majority of this is likely to be generalizing as well as speculation. If the seller was honest about the issues or simply didn't know about them, then that would be one thing. That being said, if the OP asked about the condition of the boat, if there was any damage or any potential issues and the seller said something along the lines of "no, it's a turnkey boat that needs absolutely nothing." Well... then I'd be kind of upset, especially if the seller knew of the potential transom issue, water damage, higher than normal moisture readings and so forth. I'm guessing this might've been an out of state deal and that the OP didn't view the boat himself in person before paying a surveyor to go out and inspect it...

 

[SkunkBoat]

That could be a pretty broad assumption considering we don't know the entire story here and until the OP confirms, the majority of this is likely to be generalizing as well as speculation. If the seller was honest about the issues or simply didn't know about them, then that would be one thing. That being said, if the OP asked about the condition of the boat, if there was any damage or any potential issues and the seller said something along the lines of "no, it's a turnkey boat that needs absolutely nothing." Well... then I'd be kind of upset, especially if the seller knew of the potential transom issue, water damage, higher than normal moisture readings and so forth. I'm guessing this might've been an out of state deal and that the OP didn't view the boat himself in person before paying a surveyor to go out and inspect it...

" the majority of this is likely to be generalizing as well as speculation" Exactly!

Yes I make an assumption that the 2018 motors were new when installed and assume that the owner and the motor installer aren't out n out douches.
not nearly as broad an assumption as

"The core is likely 100% shot. I can't believe that an installer and owner would install new engines on a suspect hull. WTF were they thinking except, "hurry up put this together and get it sold". "
I do realize though that the info of the exact age of the "newer" motors was posted after that statement.

It is not the seller's obligation to point out all of the known and possible flaws of a 25yo boat. So long as he's not hiding them or disguising them.
Nobody is going to say "I'm selling because I don't want to get stuck --------a. replacing the transom b. replacing motors c. replacing fuel tanks d. replacing canvas and cushions....."

Everyone who sells a boat is selling their own perceived problems...
Everyone who buys a boat is buying problems...

The OP saw a problem and asked for opinions. Some opinions are RUN!!! and How dare they sell someone that boat!
I just think thats too harsh based on a picture. And it doesn't take into account the age of the boat and the reasonable expectation that old boats eventually need work.

 

[SecondWind282]

My advice to you in my 6th year of ownership of a 2001 282 Sailfish I bought in 2018. Really consider what that 2005 will need or what you will really want and add that to the price you are considering paying and see whats available for sale in that price range. There might be a more expensive boat but it might have everything you need already installed. You can't really put a price on not having to do this or that to it and rather, just using it and enjoying it.

I personally would do it very different in hindsight but I'm too far down the rabbit hole now. Purchased mine with trailer for $33k in 2018. I've put around $65k into over the years so have around $100k invested. Electronics, batteries, repower to 2008 F250's, re-upholstering, new glass curtains, nema2000 network, audio system, lighting, new panels by New Wire Marine, two new 6000lb axles with brakes, hydraulic actuator, macerator replace, wet sand hull and ceramic coat... Install LABOR on all those items.

The costs add up very quickly if you want things working right and you can easily be chasing your tail on an older boat. Today I just ordered a $600 cabin hatch that was leaking. And my side windows are still leaking so it's always something.

I'm not disappointed about the money as much as all the TIME not spent on the boat it has cost. If I could do it again I should have spent the $100k upfront and got a boat I could use and enjoy more rather than spend 6 years constantly dumping money into it too get it right. I'm almost there though, but it's been a long, frustrating road at times. Spend as much as you can reasonably afford up front.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

" the majority of this is likely to be generalizing as well as speculation" Exactly!

Yes I make an assumption that the 2018 motors were new when installed and assume that the owner and the motor installer aren't out n out douches.
not nearly as broad an assumption as

"The core is likely 100% shot. I can't believe that an installer and owner would install new engines on a suspect hull. WTF were they thinking except, "hurry up put this together and get it sold". "
I do realize though that the info of the exact age of the "newer" motors was posted after that statement.

It is not the seller's obligation to point out all of the known and possible flaws of a 25yo boat. So long as he's not hiding them or disguising them.
Nobody is going to say "I'm selling because I don't want to get stuck --------a. replacing the transom b. replacing motors c. replacing fuel tanks d. replacing canvas and cushions....."

Everyone who sells a boat is selling their own perceived problems...
Everyone who buys a boat is buying problems...

The OP saw a problem and asked for opinions. Some opinions are RUN!!! and How dare they sell someone that boat!
I just think thats too harsh based on a picture. And it doesn't take into account the age of the boat and the reasonable expectation that old boats eventually need work.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if the OP comes back and clarifies anything. It's going to be generalizing and speculation until that point. I agree with you in that I don't believe you're likely going to know with 100% certainty about much of anything based off of a couple pictures until they open it up and dig around inside the transom to see exactly what's going on. I also know that I for one wouldn't want to roll the dice on something like this, nor does it sound like the OP does either, especially when considering that there are a lot of other boats out there for sale. To be fair to the other forum member that mentioned the 100% figure, and as you also mentioned, we didn't really hear that clarifying information on the year of the outboards until after the comment was made. I think just about any boat, car, home or whatever is being sold/purchased is going to likely have at least a couple of small issues. That's why imo, I like to have a surveyor or inspector there to figure out exactly what those issues are, how much they're going to cost and make sure that you're paying a fair price for the item you're purchasing. I can only imagine how many people over the years have spent xx number of dollars on a boat that wasn't worth that much because of the condition it was in. To then have to spend more money and be upside on the boat, or whatever item it might be, right after purchasing it.

If the boat is worth say $50k in excellent condition but it needs $10k worth of repairs done to it in order to make it be in excellent condition and the seller lists it for $40k... then that's a judgment call and is on the buyer. I will say though that the surveyor I paid to inspect one of the boats that I was considering buying before purchasing the boat I currently have said that there was considerable damage to it. Damage that the seller didn't mention at all when I asked him about it, as well as an issue with the outboard and a few other things. So yes, if the seller is being negligent and lying about things, like the one that I dealt with, that's unacceptable. Fortunately with my boat, I bought it from a Grady White dealership that made sure everything on the boat was in working condition before taking it on consignment and I haven't had any issues with it so far. Knock on wood.

 

[Barbender]

Hi all. Really appreciate the updates and time people are putting into their responses and I certainly respect the passion some people have for this. With regards to the boat the owner selling it stated in his ad that the transom had been rebuilt. He was asking $70k for the boat although I doubt he got many offers. Anyway long story short I offered him $60K based on everything he said and sent him a deposit based on good faith. Once the survey was completed of course it became obvious that the transom had indeed not been rebuilt as he advertised which in turn started this process. Now the owner refuses to refund the deposit which has opened up a new can of worms but at least I am not out $60k and a rotten transom. Here is a copy of the ad when we made the deal. It is located in Cape Coral Fla. Now the seller has relisted the boat but has removed the rebuilt transom part but the fact that he refuses to repay the deposit says all you need to know about this guy.

Twin 2018 Suzuki 225HP (300 hours on each) Cruise speed 30 mph at 18 GPH Garmin GPS 840 XS, Garmin GPS map XS Garmin radar B&G VHF with Hailer, Lewmar windlass helm controlled and remote 22lb Delta Anchor / 15’ chain 600’ anchor rode. Isinglass front and side windows, Fishing out riggers, Live Well, Fridge, sink, head, cuddy cabin 2018 - 2019 Rebuilt transom and 2 NEW 2018 - 225HP - Suzuki Outboards New fuel tanks and fuel lines (138 gal and 51 gal) 2020 Crewsaver Mariner Life raft, New U-Flex heavy-duty steering with tilt wheel All thru hulls re-bedded Epoxy paint on bottom, new rub rail, new helm, and passenger seats 2021 $7000 in up grades Simrad Autopilot, New plumbing for the live well LED lighting interior (4 colors), LED Underwater lights (4 colors) LED navigation lighting, LED light bar, Helm Cover Fusion Radio & 6 Speakers / SKAR Audio Amplifier RP-75.4 AB 500 watt Rhodan 36 volt - 84" trolling motor / 3 - 12-volt Dakota lithium-ion batteries with fast charger New Interior bow cushions, drink holders, pole holders, Aft sunshade, 1500-watt 36-volt Inverter. New port start battery, Stern anchor and rode, new dash rocker switches as needed, dual footrest for skipper 2011 Tandem axle Tarpon Trailer 10,500LB 2021 new bearings, spare tire, and wheel.