2 micron Racors with bowls

[JUST-IN-TIME]

Startron is a joke, even as DUNK

marine green stabil, or FP-60 is the best out there

Read up on the guy with startron on FS, all his gas went to white milk!!

 

[BobP]

If there is too much water and or alcohol % in the fuel, causing phase separation, nothing can fix it. You never know what gets pumped out of the marina tank, especially whenn they are low and taking a delivery while you are fueling, if that is legally allowed.

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

ya

marina fuel is not the best at all

 

[SlimJim]

what about e-zorb or seafoam?

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

nothing will get water out of gas, period

e-z works good, but not 100%

seafoam is just alcohol and oil

 

[SlimJim]

what is e-zorb for then? It says it works with water and E-10 on the label??

 

[fishingFINattic]

I just reviewed the Parker/Racor specifications for the 2 micron vs 10 micron - specifally the pressure drop at rated flows in a clean condition.

The 2micron adds quite a bit of a pressure drop to the system - actually 10 times higher at nearly all flows up to 15gph (highest rating for the 2 micron)-

I am not using them - unless I can verify that the pumps are rated for this additional pressure introduced into the system by these 2 micron filters.

Tim

 

[SlimJim]

I just reviewed the Parker/Racor specifications for the 2 micron vs 10 micron - specifally the pressure drop at rated flows in a clean condition.

The 2micron adds quite a bit of a pressure drop to the system - actually 10 times higher at nearly all flows up to 15gph (highest rating for the 2 micron)-

I am not using them - unless I can verify that the pumps are rated for this additional pressure introduced into the system by these 2 micron filters.

Tim

Tim what micron are the VST Filters?

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

2 micron

it comes down to GPH flow

no outboard pulls more than 50GPH

 

[SlimJim]

I just reviewed the Parker/Racor specifications for the 2 micron vs 10 micron - specifally the pressure drop at rated flows in a clean condition.

The 2micron adds quite a bit of a pressure drop to the system - actually 10 times higher at nearly all flows up to 15gph (highest rating for the 2 micron)-

I am not using them - unless I can verify that the pumps are rated for this additional pressure introduced into the system by these 2 micron filters.

Tim[/ quote] Tim, What are you worried about? Blowing the pump due to too much pressure? The VST Filters are 2 micron and the one fits right onto the High Pressure pump.

 

[fishingFINattic]

THe pressure induced on the entire system is directly related to particle size of the filtration-

Just becaus the VST filter has a screen that catches 2 micron does not mean you can throw 2 micron filters anywere in the system -

It is also more involved than confirming total flow rating of 15gph of the 2 micron -

In this case, the 2 micron racor requires significantly higher pressures to maintain the same flows as the 10 micron filter (both in the clean, unloaded state).

From memory the 2 micron is 1.7 psi @ 15gph and the 10 micron was about 0.1psi @ 15 gph -

What I am concerned with is that this additional pressure will compromise the life of the fuel pump, specficaly the VST electric pump - maybe not today, or next week - but quite possibly in a year or two -

THe VST fuel pump is $900 - I need to review it a little more-

I will post the pressure vs flow graphs from the manufacture tomorrow from work.

Tim

 

[fishingFINattic]

2 micron

it comes down to GPH flow

no outboard pulls more than 50GPH

This is simply just not entirely true - I do agree that the no outboard pulls more 50 gph - but it is so much more the rated GPH flow-

From memory, the 2 microns are rated 1.7psi pressure loss @ 15 gph flow - basically this is just a point on the pressure/flow curve. The pressure/flow response is close to linear - in other words - they could rate that same 2 micron filter at 3.4psi pressure loss @ 30 gph-

The key here is not the flow rating of gph, but to make sure that your system has reserve pressure capacity to move the fuel thru the system at the new system pressures -

What I am really not sure about is if the VST pump could be damaged over time- it may not be a problem at all, especially if the 10 micron in a dirty state induces 5 or 10 psi into the system - I just am waving the flag of caution on this -

 

[SlimJim]

2 micron

it comes down to GPH flow

no outboard pulls more than 50GPH

This is simply just not entirely true - I do agree that the no outboard pulls more 50 gph - but it is so much more the rated GPH flow-

From memory, the 2 microns are rated 1.7psi pressure loss @ 15 gph flow - basically this is just a point on the pressure/flow curve. The pressure/flow response is close to linear - in other words - they could rate that same 2 micron filter at 3.4psi pressure loss @ 30 gph-

The key here is not the flow rating of gph, but to make sure that your system has reserve pressure capacity to move the fuel thru the system at the new system pressures -

What I am really not sure about is if the VST pump could be damaged over time- it may not be a problem at all, especially if the 10 micron in a dirty state induces 5 or 10 psi into the system - I just am waving the flag of caution on this -

Tim, Points well taken. I just wanted to know where you were coming from as I did not understand what you were posting. I have spoke to a lot of people on other forums about this and I am okay in using the filters after talking with others and getting some feed back from others who have been using them for awhile. So far the boat is running great. I will keep you posted as our season for fishing is now on. Tim please let me know what you find out. Thanks for your feed back.

 

[JUST-IN-TIME]

TIM

if u have a 0x66 or HPDI, use them

if not screw them

I know

 

[Bill_N]

If the 2 micron Racor starts to clog over time what will that do to your already higher than normal pressure?

I bought a set of these this spring and decided not to run them after talking to a couple mechanics. Andy at SIM sold one to my buddy but after I checked around and told him what I found out he emailed Andy who told him to "run it at your own risk". In other words if your engine blows up don't blame me.

Bill

 

[Grog]

Pressure VS flow is not linear but squared. At the bottom and top of the flow graph it's very close but in the middle it bulges.

A 2 micron filter is going to catch a lot of junk raising the DP across it. The hard part is realizing when the drop is too high (I wouldn't trust it all season long).

 

[SlimJim]

what engines were the racors 2 microns made for? Has anyone reported having problems or damage from running racors filters?

 

[BobP]

You're saying the 2 micron racors have a pressure drop of 1.7 psig across them or higher at "drop the hammer" fuel surges. Makes sense a higher filtration rate does this, irrespective of how much media surface (size of filter) is supplied. But thenm again, someone can have a fuel tank in teh cabin - that's a lot of pressure drop going all the way back there.

The only reason I use a 10 micron racor is to attempt separating water with it and heavier debris getting pumped into my tank from the marina's qestionable tanks or it's truck deliveries. With ethanol, I may be wasting my time and money on water separation.

If I had my way, I would nix the VST filter, and and an inline 2 microner in series to the feed to the VST tank, under the cowl, then take 5 minutes to change it out twice a season. The in-tank VST filter has a whole mess of parts to drop when getting to it that I won't do it in the marina. I don't care about the 17 bucks, the access sucks.

The real problem here is Yamaha's total failure to address the issue of clogging VST filters. I had less than 100 hrs on the filters when I took them out, never had operating issues, but they were essentially not passing anything. Simple enough to check, just put my lips on the back side port and sucked/blew, nothing, scratched off a tiny spot, and it was free bore. They may have worsened while in dry dock over the winter months in storage, who knows.

Yamaha is responsible to figure this out and inform their dealers with TSBs what to do about it, I'm sick and tired of this VST filter issue. These motors are very expensive, and no reason for yamaha to hide their freakin heads in the sand and blame the owners for lack of maintenance, as my dealer suggested I was doing.

Thank you very much.

As far as any sand type particles in the VST tank, I was thinking about it again, how the heck did they pass the big under cowl Yamaha filter? WTF is going on here with these motors? I can see pumping pure water into the motor, nothing is going to save it, but how did sand find it's way in there, unless sand is being created within the VST tank itself. Sand generator?

Thank you very much Yamaha for offering me the extended warranty freebe - it's your headache for two more years on my motors.

 

[SlimJim]

Bob, I agree with you 100%. Yamaha has not stepped up to the plate on this entire VST issuse. And to charge what they charge for those filters and parts and gaskets is horrible. They are ripping their loyal customers off big time. Its a pain taken that tank off. BTW Its not sand it just looks like sand, when I crush it it turns to a fine white power, someone told me it could be water mixed with the e-10 as it will hold to water and not gas? Who knows, Its gone now and the boat is running great. I will let you all know how the 2 microns work out. ANYONE ELSE USING THEM?

 

[fishingFINattic]

Pressure VS flow is not linear but squared. At the bottom and top of the flow graph it's very close but in the middle it bulges.

Grog - please dont take this the wrong way, but you are incorrect - a filter flowrate vs pressure drop in linear, except on the very very very bottom of the curve (there are also a few scenarios of "blinding the media" but that does not apply here). I believe you are confusing this specific scenario with pressure drops due to friction -

Here is my concern - (and I should correct - above I said that from memory it was 1.7 @15 gph - it is really 1.25 @ 15 gph)

I am using a flow rate of 8 gph since that is what each of my twins burns cruising at 4,000 rpm-

This is the curve for the 60 gph 10 micron filter and it clear that at 8 gph the pressure drop clean is approximatly 0.125 psi (it is worth noting max pressure is 7psi)

THis is the curve for the 15 gph 2micron filter - this filter at 8 gph the pressure drop is about 0.6 psi - that is approxmiatly 5 times the pressure drop of the 10 micron. It is worth noting that max pressure is 7 psi on this one also).

The information that I would like to have from yamaha (or someone testing their motors) is at what pressure drop across the filter does performance start to be compromised - in other words, what design pressure drop did yamaha intend?

I have seen twice the start dP being documented as time to change the filters - that would put the stock 10 micron to be changed at 0.25psi - far below the clean condition of the 2 micron of 0.6psi

I believe that these pressure problems is why Andy and yamaha wont say go ahead and use it!

What I am debating is putting two of this filters in parallel - that would get the clean condition start up to be at 0.3psi -

Tim