2 pumps from the one sea cock inlet?

[ROBERTH]

Ok, somewhere, I had found a post a while back where someone showed pics where they had 2 pumps connected to a tee to their sea cock valve.

I recall asking about it and seem to recall that they said they had no issues running both pumps from this one inlet.

I have not been able to find this post in any search combinations.

I am wanting to install this Tee and second pump as a winter project so I don't have to keep switching back and forth between livewell and rinse down. Doing this, I have to usually relieve the pressure after turning off switch, then down on your knees in rolling seas and stick head and arm down a hatch to get to the Y Valve.

Does anyone have this current setup and running two pumps from it with no issue? This would be 2 Pro Blasters. Currently running the one now that is rated at 4gpm. Was going to add the 5gpm Extreme model for the rinse down.

Would I need to install a check valve going to the livewell pump to keep from drawing from it?

 

[seasick]

Ok, somewhere, I had found a post a while back where someone showed pics where they had 2 pumps connected to a tee to their sea cock valve.

I recall asking about it and seem to recall that they said they had no issues running both pumps from this one inlet.

I have not been able to find this post in any search combinations.

I am wanting to install this Tee and second pump as a winter project so I don't have to keep switching back and forth between livewell and rinse down. Doing this, I have to usually relieve the pressure after turning off switch, then down on your knees in rolling seas and stick head and arm down a hatch to get to the Y Valve.

Does anyone have this current setup and running two pumps from it with no issue? This would be 2 Pro Blasters. Currently running the one now that is rated at 4gpm. Was going to add the 5gpm Extreme model for the rinse down.

Would I need to install a check valve going to the livewell pump to keep from drawing from it?

You can buy a pump with two outputs The problem with that approach is that livewell pumps are rated for continuous duty and washdowns aren't. You need to check the specs of the pump.

You could use a tee as you do now and add a check valve in each feed to prevent backflow. I prefer separate pumps, each spec'd for the application.

 

[ROBERTH]

Thanks seasick. The ProBlaster I have now is rated for continuous duty to support the livewell, so ok there. The washdown model will not be continuous, so I prefer the Extreme Pro Blaster model. The pump that I replaced last year was the same Shurhold that was just over 20 years old and still had a Grady reference on the shurhold sticker, so I know it was original and it also had the date on it. That is impressive, so hope this reliability is still there, thus why I am sticking with the Pro Blaster series.

I would think that in the setup with a Tee, that the wash down would pull water from the easiest resistance. Since the seacock is under some pressure coming in, and the hose going to the livewell would have low resistance, I am not sure what would happen. The pull against the livewell pump would be pulling against the output of the pump itself, so I think it would be a good idea to install a check valve going to the livewell pump. But I don't think I will need one going to the wash down as it will be closed and only used when opening the hose nozzle, so there will be more resistance in this line than there is from the seacock inlet for the livewell to pull from.
Does that make sense?

 

[wrxhoon]

I have that in my 228G, one seacock, a rule livewell pump with another outlet for my deckwash. Run a hose from the other outlet ( bottom one) to your deckwash pump. You can use both at once or at anytime individually. I actually have the large rule livewell pump because I run my normal livewell and use a T with a valve to run my tuna tubes when needed as well. This is the pump I use in the link, if you only need to run your normal livewell the 800 GPH will be ample.
Make sure you install the deckwash pump as high as possible in the bilge so it never gets submerged and with the motor facing up. The livewell pump will screw on the existing seacock. It's a good idea to use a timer on th livewell pump as you don't need to run it constantly unless you have the livewell full and you never need to run it when travelling at planning speed with this set up.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rule-405FC-Tour ... 65&vxp=mtr

If you have any problems setting it up let em know and I'll try to help, unfortunately I don't have any pictures and I can't take any without removing the livewell, as you know its screwed and fixed with silicone.

 

[seasick]

wrxhoon makes a good point. If you use a dual outout pump AND screw it directly to the sea cock, you eliminate several potential leak areas like the hoses, clamps, tees, etc. As long as the dual pump is rated correctly, that would be the better option I think .

 

[ROBERTH]

Yeah, thanks guys..kinda leaning this way. So I take it you do not have a check valve installed? So that when you run the washdown pump it does not pull from the livewell line and suck air?

 

[Parthery]

Yeah, thanks guys..kinda leaning this way. So I take it you do not have a check valve installed? So that when you run the washdown pump it does not pull from the livewell line and suck air?

I think there is one inside the pump, no?

I looked at doing this same upgrade before I sold the last 225...the soon to arrive 223 has separate livewell and washdown so I won't need it.

 

[wrxhoon]

Yeah, thanks guys..kinda leaning this way. So I take it you do not have a check valve installed? So that when you run the washdown pump it does not pull from the livewell line and suck air?

You don't need anything else, its all in the rule pump housing, I have that in my 228G, she didn't have deckwash when i bought her. I prefer this set up rather than having 2 raw water pick ups. The rule pump in the link I gave you ( Johnson make them as well) will pump all day as it is a bilge pump at low pressure high volume, all you need is another pump, high pressure lower volume for your deckwash. I have this pump: JABSCO 82605-0092 AUTOMATIC WASHDOWN PUMP 6.0GPM 70PSI 12VDC, she has as much pressure and volume as your garden hose at home, we catch lots of tuna and mahi-mahi here so the volume and pressure is good to clean the deck.

 

[ROBERTH]

Good to know, at this point, if I go with the bait pump, leaning towards the Shurflo Bait Sentry as it can handle debris and has shown reliable results from other posts, my existing Pro Blaster will be used for the wash down.
Shurflo responded back to me in regards to an inquiry about the 5gpm Extreme Pro Blaster and they said that pump is no longer offered and the one they have now is same output as what I have, so there is no advantage to change it out.
So looks like I can get into a Shurhold pump for just under $90 bucks, will screw directly into my existing seacock valve, add some short hoses to hook everything up and run some wire to the switch and should be good to go.
I think the existing switch that controls the livewell is a two way switch. Will have to test it and see. One way, could have both pumps on, the other way, just the washdown. Fingers crossed on that one as I don't have a lot of options left for a place to put another switch.

 

[seasick]

wrxhoon makes a good point. If you use a dual outout pump AND screw it directly to the sea cock, you eliminate several potential leak areas like the hoses, clamps, tees, etc. As long as the dual pump is rated correctly, that would be the better option I think .

Then again, an issue with a dual output pump is that unless you add a valve to the livewell feed, it will be running whenever the pump is powered. That also means that if there is no shutoff valve to the livewell, whenever you want to use the washdown, you have to manually power the pump and both systems will get water.
If you add a shutoff valve to the livewell feed, you can leave the pump powered on all the time and it will pump when the valve is opened for the livewell or the washdown (with a nozzle) is used.

 

[wrxhoon]

seasick,

You got it wrong, this set up works the same as if you had 2 pick ups. Both pumps will work independently regardless. Just imagine you turn on the washdown pump thats the only outlet that will have water , no water will go in the livewell and you don't need a valve on either. Turn the livewell on thats the only outlet that will have water, no pressure on the washdown at all.
This is because the pick up for the washdown is before the livewell pump however when you are underway ( planning speed) your livewell will fill up, if you don't want that you can turn the seacock off or you can leave the plug in the livewell out.

I don't know why GW don't use this set up, saves another hole on the bottom of the hull.

 

[seasick]

seasick,

You got it wrong, this set up works the same as if you had 2 pick ups. Both pumps will work independently regardless. Just imagine you turn on the washdown pump thats the only outlet that will have water , no water will go in the livewell and you don't need a valve on either. Turn the livewell on thats the only outlet that will have water, no pressure on the washdown at all.
This is because the pick up for the washdown is before the livewell pump however when you are underway ( planning speed) your livewell will fill up, if you don't want that you can turn the seacock off or you can leave the plug in the livewell out.

I don't know why GW don't use this set up, saves another hole on the bottom of the hull.

I think you misread my last post. That discussed a dual outlet pump. There is only one physical pump, it has two outputs. Both outputs flow when the motor is activated.
Or perhaps I misread something

 

[wrxhoon]

I don't know what pump you ate talking about, the set up I describe works as described. The rule pump in this link : ""http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rule-405FC-Tournament-Series-1100-GPH-Livewell-Pump-/190456014437?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c58102665&vxp=mtr"" has 2 outlets neither of them require the pump on for water to flow through. If you are under way you will get water in your baitwell and you will get water on the deckwash hose if you take the trigger off.If you don't want water in your livewell you can turn the seacock off. In my set up I have an adjustable valve in the livewell tank inlet so I can adjust the amount of water I want there or turn it off.
This is the valve I use "http://www.ebay.com/itm/T-H-MARINE-AERATOR-SPRAY-HEAD-W-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-BOAT-LIVEWELL-BAITWELL-AHV1DP-/231057422934".
I use that because I have tune tubes that I feed from the same pump by restricting the livewell flow or even turning it off I get more water in my tuna tubes when required.

I hope that clarifies how my set up works, it's very simple and effective.

 

[ROBERTH]

My current setup is using the Shurflo Pro Baitmaster pump and switch back and forth between either livewell or washdown. I did an experiment this weekend while running offshore. I had the livewell valve open,and turned the pump off. I found that no water will go through the pump into the livewell when running and the pump is off. Not sure why water pressure does not push through, but guess that has to do with the design of the shurflo pump.
From what I am hearing here, is that if I go with the dual outlet type bait pump, whether made by rule or shurflo's bait sentry, water will go through the pumps into the livewell even with the pump off? So the only way to prevent water from coming into the livewell when not wanted would be to turn it off with a valve.
This might now make me lean back towards the Pro Baitmaster pump as the livewell pump, and get a new Shurflo Pro Blaster for the washdown, so that way I would not have to worry with remembering to plug or valve the livewell.
The main reason I am doing this in the first place is to stop having to stand on my head and turn a valve to switch things off/on.
I want to control that with a simple switch at the helm.
I do like the lower amperage of the bilge pump style pumps though over the Pro Blasters. Gotta think more which way I go now that I know that water will still flow when pump is off.

 

[seasick]

My current setup is using the Shurflo Pro Baitmaster pump and switch back and forth between either livewell or washdown. I did an experiment this weekend while running offshore. I had the livewell valve open,and turned the pump off. I found that no water will go through the pump into the livewell when running and the pump is off. Not sure why water pressure does not push through, but guess that has to do with the design of the shurflo pump.
From what I am hearing here, is that if I go with the dual outlet type bait pump, whether made by rule or shurflo's bait sentry, water will go through the pumps into the livewell even with the pump off? So the only way to prevent water from coming into the livewell when not wanted would be to turn it off with a valve.
This might now make me lean back towards the Pro Baitmaster pump as the livewell pump, and get a new Shurflo Pro Blaster for the washdown, so that way I would not have to worry with remembering to plug or valve the livewell.
The main reason I am doing this in the first place is to stop having to stand on my head and turn a valve to switch things off/on.
I want to control that with a simple switch at the helm.
I do like the lower amperage of the bilge pump style pumps though over the Pro Blasters. Gotta think more which way I go now that I know that water will still flow when pump is off.

My Shureflow also does not pass water underway unless it is powered on.

 

[seasick]

I don't know what pump you ate talking about, the set up I describe works as described. The rule pump in this link : ""http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rule-405FC-Tournament-Series-1100-GPH-Livewell-Pump-/190456014437?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c58102665&vxp=mtr"" has 2 outlets neither of them require the pump on for water to flow through. If you are under way you will get water in your baitwell and you will get water on the deckwash hose if you take the trigger off.If you don't want water in your livewell you can turn the seacock off. In my set up I have an adjustable valve in the livewell tank inlet so I can adjust the amount of water I want there or turn it off.
This is the valve I use "http://www.ebay.com/itm/T-H-MARINE-AERATOR-SPRAY-HEAD-W-SHUT-OFF-VALVE-BOAT-LIVEWELL-BAITWELL-AHV1DP-/231057422934".
I use that because I have tune tubes that I feed from the same pump by restricting the livewell flow or even turning it off I get more water in my tuna tubes when required.

I hope that clarifies how my set up works, it's very simple and effective.

My pump does not pass water while underway.

 

[ROBERTH]

So let me summarize what I think I know now...

If my setup is with 2 shurflo Pro Blaster for washdown, Pro Baitmaster for livewell, I don't need any additional valved other than the primary seacock intake which is already there. I would be able to control flow to livewell just simply by pressing the on switch at the helm. The on switch on the washdown just sits ready until you press the trigger, so no battery drain for that one when it is on. The Shurflo Pro Baitmaster pulls about 12 amps when running.

If my setup is a Shurflo Bait Sentry 800gph and I use the second output at base of this pump for the washdown, I will need to install a secondary valve from the Bait Sentry to livewell to control the flow of water volume/or shut it off to prevent water from coming in when running the boat.
There would always be ample water available for the Pro Blaster washdown and would not need to close the valve on the livewell side as I should get enough water from the seacock intake.

Advantage goes to Bait Sentry as it only draws approx. 2-3 amps when running vs 12 amps for Pro Baitmaster. Less Battery drain during engine off time. Cost is much less with this setup, but puts me back to having to control a valve.
Advantage goes to the Pro Baitmaster and Pro Blaster in that I don't have any extra valves to manually adjust to keep unwanted water from entering the livewell when running and can just turn off/on at the helm.

So, outside of cost, the reason I am wanting to do all this is to stop having to get on my knees to reach the valve and slide around on a wet deck on my knees and snap my neck in rough seas, also having to run back and forth turning on/off the pump so pressure is relieved allowing me to turn the valve.

So now, thinking going the Pro Blaster/Pro Baitmaster method. Additional cost over the Bait Sentry is about $80 to get the necessary fittings and pump, so not so bad for gaining the advantage I am really looking for.

I do like the way the Bait Sentry works though, pretty cool actually.

 

[DennisG01]

I may have missed the main idea here, but... would installing a valve in a more convenient location help? Run a hose up to a good spot, and then back down to where you started?

 

[ROBERTH]

Yeah, you get my point I think. The current valve is located in the aft access panel down low. Have to literally get on your knees and reach in with your arm far back to reach it and get a good hold on it to turn it.

There is really no other area to install a valve as the hose runs under the floor up to the livewell. Even the input into the livewell is way back where I doubt can get to it to install a shurhold valve there.
In this pic, the valve is behind the far right door and approx. 2 or more feet in on the transom, just above the batteries. I don't have any pics with the door open.

 

[wrxhoon]

The bilge type bait pumps have the advantage over pressure type pumps ( regardless of brand) that they supply a lot more water and use a lot less current, so ideal for baitwell running that you may need to run them all day. That fact they will let water run through when under way is another advantage because you don't have to run the pump while you going, less wear on the pump. They are much cheaper to buy and more durable because they are mostly plastic impeller type pumps with a sealed motor, very light and can be submerged. The pressure pumps must be kept away from the bilge so they don't get submerged and they have a mechanical seal that fails with usage and the motor is not sealed. I will only use them for what they were designed for, pressure wash.
The fact that the pump lets water through when under way is not a problem for me, I leave the plug on the tank out and the water goes back in the sea when I don't have livies in the tank.