2 questions about reenforcing the rod holders

[luckydude]

Crab season is just around the corner, I bought some EZ pull pots and a Scotty puller. I mount my downriggers and the puller in the rod holders in the gunnels. I've been warned that putting that strain there will give you hairline cracks in the gelcoat eventually so I have a plan which leads to some questions.

My plan is to make a brace out of HDPE (plastic cutting board material, strong and easy to machine). Sort of an eye bolt shape where the eye goes around the base of the rod holder and then extends over to the side of the boat. I'd make that end of the bolt in a sideways T shape so I have something to work with when I attach it. The idea is that brace is now keeping the rod holder from moving, it would have to flex the side of the boat to move the holder. If I can make that work, seems like a much stronger setup.

Which leads to my questions:

A) How think is the fiberglass on the side? Is it thick enough you can screw a screw in there?
B) Is there any glue that would glue HDPE to fiberglass?

and even

C) Am I thinking about this right or is there a better way to brace that rod holder?

 

[seasick]

Gluing HDPE to HDPE is tricky and requires special adhesives or 'plastic' welding.
I wouldn't expect great results trying to glue it to gelcoat.
Although bolts and nuts with backing would be best, there should be enough thickness for screws bedded with some 4200 or 5200

 

[luckydude]

Gluing HDPE to HDPE is tricky and requires special adhesives or 'plastic' welding.
I wouldn't expect great results trying to glue it to gelcoat.
Although bolts and nuts with backing would be best, there should be enough thickness for screws bedded with some 4200 or 5200

Yeah, as much as I dislike the idea of drilling holes in my hull, I think high quality stainless through the hull and the HDPE is the ticket.

Has anyone done anything like this?

 

[Holokai]

The factory holders aren’t very beefy and I believe they may only be held in by relatively thin stainless washers. The top
Piece is likely cast and just tack welded to the tube so a lot of loading may put excessive strain on the tacks.

The bracket you’re talking about sounds okay but i don’t know if hdpe will stand up to the loading on the t section as any corners there will create stress risers unless the loading is symmetrical. HDPE is also prettty soft so screw heads can easily push/pull through. I try not to use screws in fiberglass for any load bearing applications; through bolting is stronger.

Personally I’d go with a heavy duty rod holder with a big backing plate to spread the load. Anything designed for 130 lb class tackle should do the job... keep in mind that it will be deeper and have a larger ID than your current rod holders. I got mine from Anderson Customs and they’re pretty bomb proof; the top flange is ¼” stainless steel with a full size backing plate

 

[leeccoll]

Man Holokai,

Those puppies are sick!

 

[leeccoll]

Crab season is just around the corner, I bought some EZ pull pots and a Scotty puller. I mount my downriggers and the puller in the rod holders in the gunnels. I've been warned that putting that strain there will give you hairline cracks in the gelcoat eventually so I have a plan which leads to some questions.

My plan is to make a brace out of HDPE (plastic cutting board material, strong and easy to machine). Sort of an eye bolt shape where the eye goes around the base of the rod holder and then extends over to the side of the boat. I'd make that end of the bolt in a sideways T shape so I have something to work with when I attach it. The idea is that brace is now keeping the rod holder from moving, it would have to flex the side of the boat to move the holder. If I can make that work, seems like a much stronger setup.

Which leads to my questions:

A) How think is the fiberglass on the side? Is it thick enough you can screw a screw in there?
B) Is there any glue that would glue HDPE to fiberglass?

and even

C) Am I thinking about this right or is there a better way to brace that rod holder?

If your 228 is config with the same floatation foam like mine, you have to excavate it underneath the gunwale if you want to spread the load out with whatever you use. Was a PIA to remove the foam, but doable.

That's if I am understanding what you are attempting correctly.

I added 2 support braces underneath for my downrigger bases.

 

[DennisG01]

While I'll give you props for trying to think outside the box, the HDPE "brace" you're thinking about isn't going to help. HDPE is no where near stiff enough to make any difference. It would have to made out of metal - but even then, the hull side can flex quite a bit - so you'd then have to dramatically reinforce the entire hull side.

Gelcoat stress cracking comes primarily from screw holes when the hole isn't properly chamfered and the threads contact the gel.

The guwale thickness should be plenty thick. But your best bet is to do as mentioned above and get HD (not stamped) rod holders and securely through bolt it. At that point, if you wante to, add another layer of thickness to the underside of the gunwale to further support the load. A piece of 3/4" ply, Al or SS plate... those would all work. If you use ply, use heavy fender washers.

 

[luckydude]

The factory holders aren’t very beefy and I believe they may only be held in by relatively thin stainless washers. The top
Piece is likely cast and just tack welded to the tube so a lot of loading may put excessive strain on the tacks.

The bracket you’re talking about sounds okay but i don’t know if hdpe will stand up to the loading on the t section as any corners there will create stress risers unless the loading is symmetrical. HDPE is also prettty soft so screw heads can easily push/pull through. I try not to use screws in fiberglass for any load bearing applications; through bolting is stronger.

You are right about right angles, I'm cutting this and I can curve those to beef it up.

HDPE is not soft at all in my experience. I've tapped it and torqued bolts down to at least 25 foot pounds in 1/2". So maybe we have different definitions of "soft". I really like HDPE, I've done a ton of projects with it and it has never let me down.

The beefy rod holders you showed are awesome but don't address my problem. Which is, having a crab pot puller mounted in the rod holder means it is trying to flex the gunnel. Which leads to cracks. I want to address that flex and beefier rod holders do little to address that. That's why I am trying to hold the rod holders in place with the bracket.

I agree that through bolting is the way to go. Obviously, just a bolt head is not enough surface area, would a normal washer be enough or do I need to go bigger?

 

[SeanC]

As said above, go with a heavy duty rod holder (80-130lb) with backing plate.
90 degree Lee's heavy duty holder with swivel base will allow you to swivel the pot puller without removing from holder.

 

[glacierbaze]

If you want to do it right, the pot hauler should come through the gunnel, and be bolted to the deck. That takes all the torque off the gunnel.

 

[wrxhoon]

I use 1/4" S/S plate under my downrigger, the factory rod holders and the additional 4 rod holders I installed. You will find the gunnel is cored and pretty thick too.
I custom made the plates myself to suit . If you go down that road you will find the 2 factory fitted forward holders have one bolt that is very close to the gunnel side and a bit of a bastard to put the plate in there and also do up the through screw but still doable.
HDPE maybe strong but it flexes much more than 1/4" S/S plate.
I did that to my old boat and she lasted 7-8 years without cracking the gel . I don't do crabs and don't even know how heavy they are but I use some serious reels when deep dropping. I may add that I don't leave these reels in the holders when traveling, I have a custom made reel carrier that I store in the cabin on the way out ( before they get salt) or on the deck on the way back because they are salty and I don't want that in the cab. These are over 30 lb each.
These are a bit smaller , they don't make the bigger ones now. Most people use electrics for deep dropping, I like these better.
Of course I use the rod holders when trolling for tuna and marlin, I only use 50 lb Tiagras.
You kay need a heavier duty rod holder but definitely use a S/S plate and through bolts .

 

[drbatts]

If you are going the rod holder route, then I would recommend using lee's with the backing plate. I have installed these on my boat and they are pretty beefy.

 

[Sparkdog118]

Metal backing plates are the ticket. HDPE will flex, dry out and crack. Been there done that with Gunnel outrigger mounts. The 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick aluminum back plate worked great.

 

[Holokai]

You are right about right angles, I'm cutting this and I can curve those to beef it up.

HDPE is not soft at all in my experience. I've tapped it and torqued bolts down to at least 25 foot pounds in 1/2". So maybe we have different definitions of "soft". I really like HDPE, I've done a ton of projects with it and it has never let me down.

The beefy rod holders you showed are awesome but don't address my problem. Which is, having a crab pot puller mounted in the rod holder means it is trying to flex the gunnel. Which leads to cracks. I want to address that flex and beefier rod holders do little to address that. That's why I am trying to hold the rod holders in place with the bracket.

I agree that through bolting is the way to go. Obviously, just a bolt head is not enough surface area, would a normal washer be enough or do I need to go bigger?

I commend the thinking outside the box (I try to do it as well) but this is one of those cases where there are already tried and true approaches based on the failures of many.

A beefier holder with a larger base and/or backing plate will spread the load; the factory holders are light/medium duty at best so no sense trying to start with a subpar platform.

Agree with glacierbaze that if you really want to do it right a deck-mount is the best way to go.

HDPE is soft compared to metal and it will eventually fail; I’ve tried it as a backing plate on a previous boat with fender washers and it deformed after less than a year. If you use fender washers go with the extra thick ones; the standard thickness washers can deform. Don’t bother with your local big box store for the extra thick washers as they’re not likely stocked there, I’ve had better luck with some of the sellers on eBay.

 

[DennisG01]

HDPE is not soft at all in my experience. I've tapped it and torqued bolts down to at least 25 foot pounds in 1/2". So maybe we have different definitions of "soft". I really like HDPE, I've done a ton of projects with it and it has never let me down.

The beefy rod holders you showed are awesome but don't address my problem. Which is, having a crab pot puller mounted in the rod holder means it is trying to flex the gunnel. Which leads to cracks. I want to address that flex and beefier rod holders do little to address that. That's why I am trying to hold the rod holders in place with the bracket.

HDPE is good stuff and it has it's merits. But this is not an area where it shines. It is definitely the wrong product for the job. You're welcome to try it out - or just just trust us!

Beefier rod holders and substantial backing plates will make all the difference in the world. The gunwale is extremely strong. But as mentioned, the cat's meow would be to bolt it to the floor.

 

[Fishtales]

would the scotty downrigger mounts thru bolted through the gunnel be an option?

 

[JJMag]

What my friend told me about his 2017 Grady when he mounted his Scotty’s and he bolted it through the gunnel When he was pulling up light crab pots he had quite a bit of flexing in the gunnel so I don’t think that’s an option.
Like mention up above in this post my opinion and what I’m gonna do will be a stainless steel plate underneath of the length of the gunnel or I might even go with stainless steel angle once I get into it I have to look into it further !

 

[Koakine88]

I plan on replacing all my holders with Gemlux Bluewater HD Swivels. I plan on fighting big game from the gunnel and even the Gemlux/ any other brand backing plates seems to be a little small to really distribute the forces well.
I thought of running an entire piece of starboard under the entire gunnel, but don’t think that’s a great idea. An entire piece the length of the gunnel in stainless steel... that’s more like it.

 

[trapper]

1/2 inch aluminium under my scottys. Will lift two loaded prawn traps from 400 ft. no issue.

 

[Fishtales]

The gunnel top is pretty thick as I recall. I would think a plate between the mount and the gunnel and a backer plate would be sufficient.