2 stroke oil
- Thread starter LI Grady
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I wouldn't know, I couldn't afford Yamalube so I always used less expensive stuff like Amsoil 2 cycle or West Marine synthetic. Last time I saw the motors (this spring, and still no YL), they passed me at full song while outbound toward the ledge ... :wink:
I guess I'm in the minority here. I run the cheap (though TC3W certified) oil from Wally World. I've been running two-strokes for twenty years and never had an issue related to lubrication (plus Dad before that). It's still under $10/gallon and I put a lot of hours on my motor, so the savings add up pretty fast. It lets me buy more fuel for more boating!
Though I don't disagree that Amsoil and probably Yamalube are better products, I certainly agree with some other questions here about anyone suffering engine damage due specifically to using cheaper oil...I haven't heard of it and would have a hard time believing it.
I must admit that I had an argument with an Amsoil dealer once. He tried to convince me that my car engine would run smoother and at lower temperature with their stuff in the crankcase. Ummm, I don't think the crankcase contributes much to "smoothness" in a modern car engine, and I'm pretty sure the temperature is regulated by the thermostat...
Though I don't disagree that Amsoil and probably Yamalube are better products, I certainly agree with some other questions here about anyone suffering engine damage due specifically to using cheaper oil...I haven't heard of it and would have a hard time believing it.
I must admit that I had an argument with an Amsoil dealer once. He tried to convince me that my car engine would run smoother and at lower temperature with their stuff in the crankcase. Ummm, I don't think the crankcase contributes much to "smoothness" in a modern car engine, and I'm pretty sure the temperature is regulated by the thermostat...
enfish
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Grouper Duper said:
I'd buy what the Amsoil guy was saying. I can tell when it's time for an oil change in my truck because it will run about 10 degrees warmer than normal and is a bit noisier. When I change the oil, it runs noticeably smoother, quieter and cooler. I just use conventional oil and change it every 3500-4000 miles. Though my truck is 14 years old with 208k miles on it, so it may not be considered modern anymore :lol:
He tried to convince me that my car engine would run smoother and at lower temperature with their stuff in the crankcase.
He would be correct in some cases, incorrect in others. I've seen a couple of hundred RPM changes in a few of my vehicles over the years, didn't pay much attention to temp changes since none ever ran hotter than 'normal' with or without. Most true synthetics will make an engine run smoother initially, some for a good while, others not long. And dino oils will do the same on some engines, too. As for temp, the thermostat regulates temp up to the point it's wide open, which may or may not be at the 'normal' temp point. I'm not too sure I want to wait until my engine runs noisier and hotter to change the oil, but each to his own ... :wink:
He would be correct in some cases, incorrect in others. I've seen a couple of hundred RPM changes in a few of my vehicles over the years, didn't pay much attention to temp changes since none ever ran hotter than 'normal' with or without. Most true synthetics will make an engine run smoother initially, some for a good while, others not long. And dino oils will do the same on some engines, too. As for temp, the thermostat regulates temp up to the point it's wide open, which may or may not be at the 'normal' temp point. I'm not too sure I want to wait until my engine runs noisier and hotter to change the oil, but each to his own ... :wink:
Grouper Duper said:
Stuff like that makes me to never want to try Amsol. They're so full of it! Run smoother, well if your oil rings are that shot or the valve seals that you're getting enough oil in the combustion, the motor is SHOT. And how is it going to run cooler? Let's just say that there will be a measurable friction loss, is the heat load that great the radiator and thermostat are over-loaded? Again if you're that borderline there are other issues that changing your oil isn't going to solve. I always use Mobil 1, never had an issue of crud build-up and both my vehicles (not the toy) have over 100K miles and don't burn oil. If they were to say it performs as well as or maybe better than Mobil 1 but costs less I'd think about it but if they have to feed a line of BS to persuade you run away.
I've used the cheapo West Marine oil but the Yamalube is $25 when you refill so why bother with the West Marine oil.
Grog said:
Reminds me of the guy that doesn't like religion because he doesn't like the people at his church. Or they don't believe in God because the church is corrupt.
Just because there's an idiot Amsoil dealer (not Amsol) doesn't mean the product isn't good. If you like Mobil1 you'll love what Amsoil products do. One of the greatest advantages of their product line is that they have a lubricant for virtually every application. Mobile 1 has a very narrow product line. What they do have works well.
Here's a link to the product description of ATM, their 10-30 weight, full synthetic, just in case you're interested in what they say about their standard motoroil: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx
Amsoil is an outstanding product. I will say again, I have yet to hear of anyone that tried their products that didn't like them. There is nothing wrong with Mobil 1, however Amsoil is just a cut above.
All of the modern oils have reduced their zinc compounds in an effort to meet epa regs. Zinc is the main ingredient that reduces wear. I'm no metallurgist so I can't explain exactly why. However there are some issues with backward compatibility with engines that depend heavily on that compound, so we're finding some premature bearing surface wear and failures out there. The guys in the porsche forums have a lot different opinion about full synthetic oils and what gives longest life in their engines. A new motor for a boxster or 911 exceeds twenty grand. A lot of owners run them very hard, many of them attending track days and rallys, more of a racing application.
Automatic transmissions will definitely run cooler with synthetic ATF. Easy to find testimony on that. Amsoil is hands-down one of the very best ATF's on the market. It is more thermally stable, has a better additive package, and will lengthen drain intervals and extend the life of the unit.
What a lot of guys don't like is that Amsoil started out with a multi-level marketing sales structure thru a dealer network as that was the best way to bring the product to market at that time (early '70's). When your sales prospect needs to have more information to understand the product benefits than a retail sales environment offers, MLM is a good way go. Today they just keep with it for many of the same reasons, and because their dealer network got them where they are today so they protect them. They will not sell to a retail chain with more than 12 locations, so you will never see it at Walmart, Pep Boys, Kragen/Shucks, or whatever. You still have to buy the product thru their dealer network.
I just learned that Redline uses a different base stock than Amsoil. They are probably more in direct competition with them. A product more on parr with them. I can't give particulars here, but if you want to research you can learn more about their base stocks and why the product performs so well. Again, a narrow product range, but great motor oils.
Another great product in a mineral-based lubricant, especially for older style and aircooled engines, (like porsche) is Brad Penn Oils. It's a full group III base stock with an ample zddp package of zinc, (about 1200ppm) and is reportely on parr with the old Kendal GT1 if anyone is familiar with the reputation of that product. Here again though, a product that is difficult to source. I have never heard of it 'till this week.
Anyway, I digress. To say that a product is no good just because someone doesn't know what they are talking about, just doesn't make good sense, is not logical. A lot of people will swear their engines run quieter and smoother with premium lubricants. Motor oils are like beer - everyone has their favorite flavor. :wink:
Be carefull of what fluid you use in your ATF, a non OEM spec product may not produce the same shift smoothness as transmission designer planned, and you will be in a big mess and writing big checks if that happens. Also, on middle age and older vehicles, you may start having leaks you never had before. Buddy had this with Royal Purple.
Read incidents of this occurring on various auto DIYer forums.
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I still can't understand why top of the class yamaha doesn't offer a full synthetic instead of Yamalube for it's 2 strokes.
It was stated they may not be proper for breakin, breakin is 10 hrs of use, that's it, how about for the remaining humdreds or thousands of hours of engine life?
Until this is answered not by speculation, I will never ignore it like it doesn't matter.
Read incidents of this occurring on various auto DIYer forums.
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I still can't understand why top of the class yamaha doesn't offer a full synthetic instead of Yamalube for it's 2 strokes.
It was stated they may not be proper for breakin, breakin is 10 hrs of use, that's it, how about for the remaining humdreds or thousands of hours of engine life?
Until this is answered not by speculation, I will never ignore it like it doesn't matter.
BobP said:
Amsoil synthetic ATF is not a "non-oem spec' transmission fluid. See if you can find someone that had transmission failure using Amsoil ATF.
The yamalube question has to do with sourcing a product that performs sufficiently in a broad array of environments, that they can sell thru their dealer network at a profit point that is competetive with other similar products. They don't make their oil, they don't make their ringfree.
If they can buy a product for $2, package it for a $1, sell it to their dealers for $6 who in turn sells it to his customer for $9, they all win. I made up the numbers but you get the point.
I have one for you, why does Bombardier/Evinrude/E-tec offer a higher grade oil and a leaner oil mix setting for their motors? The oil costs more, it's a semi-synthetic too.
Or why does corvette, cadillac, saab, VW, mercedes, bmw (I could go on) put synthetic oil in their engines and implore their customers to do the same? Actually, they require it to meet warranty coverage. If it didn't work better why would the premium brands be going with it?
A yamaha 2-stroke outboard doesn't need a synthetic to run dependably. A mineral based oil with the proper additive package to meet the TC spec is sufficient. Do they run cleaner and smoother with a better oil? YES! If you have a failure of some component that causes water ingestion, overheat condition, or any number of conditions that stress your motor, a superior lubricant will better protect your motor from failure.
Good discussion.
1. I didn't say a transmisison failure occured. Abrupt shifing is more what I refrred to. I read a TSB by a car manufacturer describing a shift quality complaint attributed to non- OEM ATF fluid.
TSBs are for the dealers, not us to read. So if theh car is under warranty, transmission didn't fail, nothing dealer will do nor has to do. That will be a pleasant surprise to hear from dealer on your $40K new car.
2. The other one was leaks with Royal Purple, then adding stop leak to fix it, or plenty of labor $$ to pull transmission and replace seals.
3. ETECs have 3 star CARB ratings just ike 4 strokes, no other 2 stroke has 3 stars, the more expensive oil allows it and reprogramming, less oil burned = less emmisions.
4. Yamaha motors are a top of the class product, traditionally a more expensive motor than OMCs, etc. so it makes sense those who buy can afford and demand an alternative product to protect their fine machinery even as an option, same way as most car manufacturers do with motor oil.
I would say there is an aspect of full synthetic that rears it's ugly head only under certain curcumstances, in operation, maintenance, whatever, where the Yamaha engineers determined the Yamalube formula would better serve that state. We talk here about less odor, I don't think they care much about odor.
5. Mobile One has been around for decades, and some of the premium companys (Porsche?) recommend Mobile One only, that's it. I don't kno w what's in the bottle of Mobile One, but I pay $7.50 a quart to get it. If it works or not, cheap adder, same DIyer labor.
1. I didn't say a transmisison failure occured. Abrupt shifing is more what I refrred to. I read a TSB by a car manufacturer describing a shift quality complaint attributed to non- OEM ATF fluid.
TSBs are for the dealers, not us to read. So if theh car is under warranty, transmission didn't fail, nothing dealer will do nor has to do. That will be a pleasant surprise to hear from dealer on your $40K new car.
2. The other one was leaks with Royal Purple, then adding stop leak to fix it, or plenty of labor $$ to pull transmission and replace seals.
3. ETECs have 3 star CARB ratings just ike 4 strokes, no other 2 stroke has 3 stars, the more expensive oil allows it and reprogramming, less oil burned = less emmisions.
4. Yamaha motors are a top of the class product, traditionally a more expensive motor than OMCs, etc. so it makes sense those who buy can afford and demand an alternative product to protect their fine machinery even as an option, same way as most car manufacturers do with motor oil.
I would say there is an aspect of full synthetic that rears it's ugly head only under certain curcumstances, in operation, maintenance, whatever, where the Yamaha engineers determined the Yamalube formula would better serve that state. We talk here about less odor, I don't think they care much about odor.
5. Mobile One has been around for decades, and some of the premium companys (Porsche?) recommend Mobile One only, that's it. I don't kno w what's in the bottle of Mobile One, but I pay $7.50 a quart to get it. If it works or not, cheap adder, same DIyer labor.
In other words, no reason Yamaha would not sell sell a yamalube plus product if they offered it for 30 bucks a gallon instead of the 24 I pay, makes no difference to me. I bet others who want OEM only, would buy it too.
If I am not mistaken, there is a Yamalube product for PWC 2 strokers that is full synthetic, yes? If so, why?
And if so, why can't I use it if I wanted to on my HPDI?
If I am not mistaken, there is a Yamalube product for PWC 2 strokers that is full synthetic, yes? If so, why?
And if so, why can't I use it if I wanted to on my HPDI?
BobP said:
That is certainly a possibility :!:
Wish we knew what that condition was.
OTOH, it may be simply dollars and supply distribution.
Capt Bill
GreatGrady Captain
I was going to stay out of the synthetic vs dino oil discussion, as these have been batted around for decades already, and the same old arguments keep coming up. So I'll just offer this:
I have a motorhome, with a diesel engine and an Allison 6-speed transmission. It is a model-year 2002. When new, Allison filled the transmission with conventional dino-grade ATF. When I took the coach in for M3 maintenance (20,000 mi maintenance), they told me that the next ATF and filter change interval is in 30k miles, but IF I change over to Syntec (full synthetic) ATF, the interval is 100,000 miles AND they will extend the warranty on the transmission. BTW, Allison has been shipping the transmissions with full synthetic for several years now, and no longer uses dino.
Of course, I had them do that, and another bonus is that the transmission runs at leaqst 20 degrees cooler. How do I know? I have a Silverleaf VMS 240 CL, permanently installed in the instrument panel. It shows everything that the engine and transmission are doing, in real-time.
I ride a MC, which has a wet clutch. That means the the engine lubrication oil is also in the transmission. When I switched from dino to Amsiol, the shifting went from stiff to smooth as velvet.
Regards to a manufacturer denying a warranty claim because you used synthetic. That is an old wives tale. Period. The burden of proof is on them, not you. They would have to prove that the use of your choice of oil is the cause of the failure. Amsoil states that can't happen (because they know their product), and will pay for any failure that is caused by using their product.
So buy what you feel good about, and go fishing.
I have a motorhome, with a diesel engine and an Allison 6-speed transmission. It is a model-year 2002. When new, Allison filled the transmission with conventional dino-grade ATF. When I took the coach in for M3 maintenance (20,000 mi maintenance), they told me that the next ATF and filter change interval is in 30k miles, but IF I change over to Syntec (full synthetic) ATF, the interval is 100,000 miles AND they will extend the warranty on the transmission. BTW, Allison has been shipping the transmissions with full synthetic for several years now, and no longer uses dino.
Of course, I had them do that, and another bonus is that the transmission runs at leaqst 20 degrees cooler. How do I know? I have a Silverleaf VMS 240 CL, permanently installed in the instrument panel. It shows everything that the engine and transmission are doing, in real-time.
I ride a MC, which has a wet clutch. That means the the engine lubrication oil is also in the transmission. When I switched from dino to Amsiol, the shifting went from stiff to smooth as velvet.
Regards to a manufacturer denying a warranty claim because you used synthetic. That is an old wives tale. Period. The burden of proof is on them, not you. They would have to prove that the use of your choice of oil is the cause of the failure. Amsoil states that can't happen (because they know their product), and will pay for any failure that is caused by using their product.
So buy what you feel good about, and go fishing.
The reason why some car or other engine manufacturers recommend only their specific oils is because some of their parts like transmissions and power steering units need a certain additive for seal lubrication and or smoother shifting. Most conventional based "market oils" simply meet API or SAE or TC-W3 minimum ratings for general wide use. They may not cover every spectrum out there like say Honda requires. But the Amsoil oils and tranny fluids are designed to cover every spectrum so it can be used in a Chevy, Honda or Mercedes Benz and says so right on the label....the other guys can't say that so they stick by the API certs and thats it. Porche may recommend Mobil 1 because its a world wide company, probably the biggest in oils and lubricants so their cars can get a very good specified product anywhere in the world.......You may or may not find Amsoil in Seoul Korea or London but you will find Mobil 1. Its THE name brand on the market and the trailers like Pennzoil and Quaker State are just now trying to catch up.
Synthetics are normally are not used for break in because they are so good, they don't allow the friction required to properly seat the rings in the cylinder. But once thats done, you want to eliminate any further wear, which they do better than "Dino" oil as Capt Bill states. There is no argument in the world of engine manufacturers to this data....its out there and is indisputable. The reason for many leaks, especially in older engines is again the quality of the detergent additives in the oil that will clear out any dirt and grime that has built up over the years using regular oil....thats why Amsoil doesn't recommend using synthetics of any kind after say about 80 or 100,000 miles....the damage is already done by then and the detergents will find any holes currently plugged with sludge. I've got 235k miles on my car engine/tranny and it runs like new, doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil and the valve train is super clean and shiney. I started using it after 5000 miles and never looked back....same for the gear case, tranny and diff's....and when I switched from Yamalube to the HP injector oil, my friends and family even commented how much less smoke was coming off the 2 strokes....the stuff works.
You may not be able to use Yamaha's PWC synthetic because it may be specifically designed for that motors requirements, maybe a different ratio like 100:1 vs 50:1.....but no manufacturer can say you can't use another brands oil if it passes any listed oil specification, which they must list to the consumer....if it passes, its good to go as far as warranty....thats why engineers and manufacturers came up with the rating to try and standardize the industry. What do you do if you run out of oil and the store where you are boating doesn't have Yamalube? Do you park the boat or car?? There's a lot of "marketing" out there...making statements like that one Amsoil dealer that the oil will smooth out a "rough" running engine is total BS. It will make a smooth engine run smoother, but it won't fix an inherent problem. But the test data doesn't lie.
Synthetics are normally are not used for break in because they are so good, they don't allow the friction required to properly seat the rings in the cylinder. But once thats done, you want to eliminate any further wear, which they do better than "Dino" oil as Capt Bill states. There is no argument in the world of engine manufacturers to this data....its out there and is indisputable. The reason for many leaks, especially in older engines is again the quality of the detergent additives in the oil that will clear out any dirt and grime that has built up over the years using regular oil....thats why Amsoil doesn't recommend using synthetics of any kind after say about 80 or 100,000 miles....the damage is already done by then and the detergents will find any holes currently plugged with sludge. I've got 235k miles on my car engine/tranny and it runs like new, doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil and the valve train is super clean and shiney. I started using it after 5000 miles and never looked back....same for the gear case, tranny and diff's....and when I switched from Yamalube to the HP injector oil, my friends and family even commented how much less smoke was coming off the 2 strokes....the stuff works.
You may not be able to use Yamaha's PWC synthetic because it may be specifically designed for that motors requirements, maybe a different ratio like 100:1 vs 50:1.....but no manufacturer can say you can't use another brands oil if it passes any listed oil specification, which they must list to the consumer....if it passes, its good to go as far as warranty....thats why engineers and manufacturers came up with the rating to try and standardize the industry. What do you do if you run out of oil and the store where you are boating doesn't have Yamalube? Do you park the boat or car?? There's a lot of "marketing" out there...making statements like that one Amsoil dealer that the oil will smooth out a "rough" running engine is total BS. It will make a smooth engine run smoother, but it won't fix an inherent problem. But the test data doesn't lie.
Nicely said richie, very eloquent. 8)
BTW, some of the Porsche owners are bagging off MB1 because the zinc content has been virtually eliminated. I've been reading their forums about Boxsters and 911's.
Probably my best testimonial is our BMW. We bought it as a CPO with 33K miles, it's a 325Ci. It had 'factory approved care' from new - that means a OCI (oil change interval) of 15K. That was one glugged up sludge pot, so it got a couple of 3K changes with Amsoil. Since then it gets a 6-7.5K OCI's and has 87K on the clock. It uses half a quart between it's oil changes. I had to replace the valve cover gasket - quite a project on a straight-six bimmer, but its cam lobes were spotless and there was zero sludge in that motor. I have run the 5-40 Eurospec oil, and the car exceeds the epa mileage estimates that came on it. Not exactly 200K, but still, it runs like new and some of the forum members have oil burners at less mileage. Some don't get proper care and then they come asking questions on what to do with their car.
I have bought a couple of used cars that were oil burners, like a quart in a thousand miles or less. I consider that excessive, even though manufacturers don't. By changing them out to synthetic they reduced consumption by 100% or more. One old leaker, a MBZ 190, had a leaky main and it slowed it's leak enough to put off replacement.
BTW, some of the Porsche owners are bagging off MB1 because the zinc content has been virtually eliminated. I've been reading their forums about Boxsters and 911's.
Probably my best testimonial is our BMW. We bought it as a CPO with 33K miles, it's a 325Ci. It had 'factory approved care' from new - that means a OCI (oil change interval) of 15K. That was one glugged up sludge pot, so it got a couple of 3K changes with Amsoil. Since then it gets a 6-7.5K OCI's and has 87K on the clock. It uses half a quart between it's oil changes. I had to replace the valve cover gasket - quite a project on a straight-six bimmer, but its cam lobes were spotless and there was zero sludge in that motor. I have run the 5-40 Eurospec oil, and the car exceeds the epa mileage estimates that came on it. Not exactly 200K, but still, it runs like new and some of the forum members have oil burners at less mileage. Some don't get proper care and then they come asking questions on what to do with their car.
I have bought a couple of used cars that were oil burners, like a quart in a thousand miles or less. I consider that excessive, even though manufacturers don't. By changing them out to synthetic they reduced consumption by 100% or more. One old leaker, a MBZ 190, had a leaky main and it slowed it's leak enough to put off replacement.
The Zinc really cuts the wear down on flat tappet lifters. I don't think anybody uses flat tappets in production vehicles anymore so that's not a huge deal. Given a choice I'd pick an oil with the Zinc to help the bearings on start-up and the rings.
There is no break in period on car motors any longer, get the keys , drop the hammer and go. Whyt on 4 stroke Yamahas?, I'll never know.
I've run my 300 ZX 1/4 million commuter miles on Castrol GTX, never seen a drop of synthetic, so how do you know the Benzo/Bimmer would not be in the the same condition pulling the valve covers on pennsylvania crude instead of syntethic ?
It has been reported by owners in various forums, adverse effects of using non-OEM fluids in cars.
Would matter to me under warranty, take my chances later, but since car motor/tranee has no idea if it is under warranty of not, there is a risk.
If what they pull up on the dipstick is not what they sell, it's easy enough to say "we have no idea what that is on the dipstick" and walk away. I consider all 3rd party warranties about engine failure nothing but sales gimmicks fine print legal loop holed nonesense to squirm out of. No 3rd party warranty holds any $$ value to me.
I have never said a pro or con word about amsoil, some of you guys seem more like special interest lobby group reps or salesmen, than an end product user like me. I never discuss anything with salesmen, I only catch them BSing red handed, then make them aware they are caught, and not to do it again which usualy falls on deaf ears anyway.
I use Mobil One in my newer car from day 8K miles, the car cranks faster in cold weather and I do believe it gets at least 1 mpg more. The added oil cost I can cover.
Weather or not the motor will last longer, since I'm not salesmen, and ran 1/4 million miles on the Z with Castrol GTX, I have no comment nor will advise any others what to use in their motors. There is entire shelves filled with various manufacturers' products, who am I to say to anyone what to buy?
My car tranee fluid is due for a changout, the car goes into the dealer for the flush, and if is not the same tranee performance after, the dealer can't point finger anywhere but at himself. The best position for me to be in legally if I have to take him downtown to the courthouse. I could care less at that point about tranee life or 3rd party warranties.
The motors on my boat are under warranty, new power heads are $7K, so I'm going to be a good little yamaha boy for 2 more years for the reasons explained.
I don't recall advising anyone else to follow me. Do as you please.
I've run my 300 ZX 1/4 million commuter miles on Castrol GTX, never seen a drop of synthetic, so how do you know the Benzo/Bimmer would not be in the the same condition pulling the valve covers on pennsylvania crude instead of syntethic ?
It has been reported by owners in various forums, adverse effects of using non-OEM fluids in cars.
Would matter to me under warranty, take my chances later, but since car motor/tranee has no idea if it is under warranty of not, there is a risk.
If what they pull up on the dipstick is not what they sell, it's easy enough to say "we have no idea what that is on the dipstick" and walk away. I consider all 3rd party warranties about engine failure nothing but sales gimmicks fine print legal loop holed nonesense to squirm out of. No 3rd party warranty holds any $$ value to me.
I have never said a pro or con word about amsoil, some of you guys seem more like special interest lobby group reps or salesmen, than an end product user like me. I never discuss anything with salesmen, I only catch them BSing red handed, then make them aware they are caught, and not to do it again which usualy falls on deaf ears anyway.
I use Mobil One in my newer car from day 8K miles, the car cranks faster in cold weather and I do believe it gets at least 1 mpg more. The added oil cost I can cover.
Weather or not the motor will last longer, since I'm not salesmen, and ran 1/4 million miles on the Z with Castrol GTX, I have no comment nor will advise any others what to use in their motors. There is entire shelves filled with various manufacturers' products, who am I to say to anyone what to buy?
My car tranee fluid is due for a changout, the car goes into the dealer for the flush, and if is not the same tranee performance after, the dealer can't point finger anywhere but at himself. The best position for me to be in legally if I have to take him downtown to the courthouse. I could care less at that point about tranee life or 3rd party warranties.
The motors on my boat are under warranty, new power heads are $7K, so I'm going to be a good little yamaha boy for 2 more years for the reasons explained.
I don't recall advising anyone else to follow me. Do as you please.
And what I mean by non-OEM, is what label is on container, not the SAE or TCW classifications. Which have little to do with ENTIRE formulation and additives.
I'm talking FORD, YAMAHA, etc.
Not PENZOIL, WEST MARINE, LUBRIPLATE, CASTROL, etc.
I'm talking FORD, YAMAHA, etc.
Not PENZOIL, WEST MARINE, LUBRIPLATE, CASTROL, etc.
Has anyone used the full synthetic Penzoil 2-stroke oil? I was thinking of switching to it from Yamalube on my HPDIs.
Who Makes these oils
Ever ask your self who makes Yamaha ,Amsoil ,Harley D, Purple what cha macall it oil etc . There are only a few refineries that make oil products and sell their oils to other to make the above named special oils, I know mobil 1 is sold to alot of companies and they add their special color, and secret blends and call it Blah Blah Oil............. Call Amsoil and ask them who makes their Oil..bet they won't tell you or any other company who sell oil and doesn't refine it from crude....what I'm just saying if you stick with a refiner like Mobil or the few others that get if from the ground you save money than buying that fancy magic Special sauce oil............I've used it in my trucks and my mustangs with no problems/ And you don't have to cahnge oil every 3,000 miles you can go as high as 7,000 under normal driving......save money and keep your engines running well.
Ever ask your self who makes Yamaha ,Amsoil ,Harley D, Purple what cha macall it oil etc . There are only a few refineries that make oil products and sell their oils to other to make the above named special oils, I know mobil 1 is sold to alot of companies and they add their special color, and secret blends and call it Blah Blah Oil............. Call Amsoil and ask them who makes their Oil..bet they won't tell you or any other company who sell oil and doesn't refine it from crude....what I'm just saying if you stick with a refiner like Mobil or the few others that get if from the ground you save money than buying that fancy magic Special sauce oil............I've used it in my trucks and my mustangs with no problems/ And you don't have to cahnge oil every 3,000 miles you can go as high as 7,000 under normal driving......save money and keep your engines running well.