2005 282 Sailfish Moisture Issue

[Pipehunter]

Looking for some advice. After chasing a boat for some time, I have a 2005 Sailfish under contract at the right price. Seller has knocked off $6k for kits for the Yamaha 225's and other work to address the corrosion issue. I have an excellent surveyor and we are taking this one step at a time. The issue is high moisture readings on an 8 x 2 foot section just above the water line by about a foot above through hulls on the starboard side. Readings are 100 which he says suggests rot. Otherwise, structurally the boat checks out well - transom, gas tanks, etc.

We are not going out in the ocean - this will be a bay/river boat for fishing, light cruising, weekending, etc. If I decide to proceed, then we will move to systems, sea trial, etc.

480 hours on the boat - lift kept for the last ten years.

Cost to address this issue - all in with new paint $12-14k. I know the seller will not agree to that kind of a hit and we haven't even gotten to a sea trial.

Should I just walk, no run, now?

Many thanks for your advice!

 

[mleads310]

Can you be more specific on the location... pictures? Was the boat in the water when tested with a meter? Was there or has there been any repair to this area? Is there anything that could be causing this reading? You need to ask and answer these questions before going forward. I say this because you could be walking from a perfectly good boat with a high moisture reading that doesn't truly confirm rot in that area. I'm definitely curious as to the location because as you describe it, it sounds like it's in an area that absolutely wouldn't have any rot at all.... unless there was a CLEAR and obvious reason.

 

[Pipehunter]

Thanks much. Cannot send pix but on the starboard side there are a number of through hulls, and the moisture is about a foot above them and about two feet above that, running from about 2 feet ahead of the stern about 8 feet ahead.

I don't think the owner has any idea of this issue; hence, no repairs. As I noted, the rest of the boat is really solid.

The boat has been on land for some time. You could hear it with the hammer and it was beyond the usual voids one hears. Then the moisture meter.

I would like to make a deal on this boat, but don't want to buy a bunch of trouble. My surveyor says rot, but he also says you can move forward, or look to repair. Thus, my question. Thanks again - advice much appreciated.

 

[DennisG01]

You're talking about the hull side, under the rubrail? Does the Sailfish even have a cored hull side? I didn't think so? I'm pretty sure this is what Mleads was getting at, too.

I think that's the first question to ask/figure out. And... a moisture meter does not a surveyor make

 

[wrxhoon]

Very unusual place to have moisture even if it was kept on the water. Are you sure it's not in the gunnel? The gunnel is cored on all Grady's I have seen ( not that many I may add ), if they installed an extra rod holder they may may not have sealed it and water got in there over the years .

 

[mleads310]

Exactly Dennis! That's a very odd place to get moisture readings! How does it sound when tapped with a mallet? Also from the area you describe you or the surveyor should be able to inspect a good portion of that area from the inside! If you go in the aft berth (under the stairs) there's a very large access panel that you can literally stick your head in and look around. You should be able to easily access the thru hulls in that area and a decent amount of area forward and aft. Have someone on the outside with a very high power and bright spotlight shining through in that area, you be able to "see" thru the hull for any imperfections.....kinda like shining a light thru an envelope to see whats inside.

I only say this because in that exact same area there was a similar situation when I purchased my boat where the meter went high. We shined the light from the outside and could see right around the thru holes in that area. for whatever weird reason there was about a quarter inch gap in fiberglass mat (not exactly sure how Grady White fiberglassed their boats at the time) but the surveyor said he seen that only a couple of times before and it poses no structural damage. It literally looked like a quarter inch by one foot line that wasn't fully "stiched together" so to speak. To give better clarification, if you would lay two pieces of paper next to each other with a quarter inch gap in between them, instead of overlapping them by a quarter of an inch.

 

[GWL139]

I would suggest contacting GW customer service. Carolyn, Bert, Jamie, and Danny are all excellent people and will help you get to the bottom of the issue. They can tell you how the boat is constructed, or get an engineer who will. (252) 752-2111 is the phone number. One of the reasons I've owned 3 Gradys myself is because of the support that is available and the records that are kept by the factory.

 

[Fishtales]

You're talking about the hull side, under the rubrail? Does the Sailfish even have a cored hull side? I didn't think so? I'm pretty sure this is what Mleads was getting at, too.

I think that's the first question to ask/figure out. And... a moisture meter does not a surveyor make

I agree with Dennis. I don't believe the 282 has coring. Mine didn't. I think it starts with the 30' hulls. Check with GW. One issue they were having was the blower inlet allowing water in. Does it have a generator?

 

[Pipehunter]

Thanks so much for all of the comments - truly appreciated. You have given me a bit of an education and some points to discuss with my surveyor.
My surveyor has a resume second to none - seriously. So I have no doubt that he has the best equipment out there and knows how to use it. He was all over the boat, inside and out, top and bottom, with hammer and meter. This is the only bad spot on the boat and yes, the audible difference when he hit this spot was quite apparent before he stuck the meter on it.
The boat has been out of the water for over six months.
Given the Covid issues, I was not in the cabin so I will follow up with him on the access panel in the aft berth.
I should have the written report and the hundreds of photos he took today or tomorrow and may circle back.

Thanks again!

 

[seasick]

The audible sound being that noticeable is generally not a good sign but as mentioned, if the hull is not cored, I can't explain why the sound would be that different. If it is not cored, I am not sure that the difference in sounds is as important. Is it possible that the vessel incurred major hull damage that was repaired? A look at the inside if possible might shed some light on nay issues.
I am also wondering if that section of the hull for whatever reason is just thinner than the surrounding area. That could explain the sounds and the meter reading.

 

[DennisG01]

Still going on the assumption that it is not cored...

As talked about above, there is a good reason why the sound can change - simply due to the construction of the boat. The boat is built with an "inner liner". If you imagine the hull as an upside down shell, then the cockpit is the inner liner. The inner liner is ALSO a shell - so imagine the inner liner "shell" being placed inside the hull "shell". The inner liner extends partway up the sides of the inside of the shell - but typically just to where you can normally see it - sometimes not much higher than the cockpit floor. Where the two shells are glued together, the sound would be more "solid" sounding due to there being two thicknesses of fiberglass. Where there is only one thickness of glass (above the joint spot), the sound would certainly be different. Even though there may some area below the joint spot where it's just the hull, the sound may be more solid sounding due to the fact that that area is so close to the chine and the hull bottom (less physical area for the glass to flex/sound).

There could also be spots where the two shells are not glued together as well as they are in other spots. This isn't necessarily an issue, though, as it's hard to get the entire vertical section of the inner liner to sit fully flush/against the hull for the entire distance of the vertical section of the inner liner.

But, as noted, Grady can tell you, for sure whether it's cored or not.

 

[Pipehunter]

All very interesting. From a 2001 review by Capt Ken Kreisler of Power and Motoryacht Magazine - "To begin with, the bottom is solid fiberglass. The hull and deck are hand-laid fiberglass with Baltek end-grain balsa coring in the hull sides. Besides adding stiffness to the structure, the coring helps wick the resin more deeply into the grain for superior strength and bonding." Also, found some posts on other threads saying the same, including one poster who suggested he confirmed it with GW.

 

[seasick]

All very interesting. From a 2001 review by Capt Ken Kreisler of Power and Motoryacht Magazine - "To begin with, the bottom is solid fiberglass. The hull and deck are hand-laid fiberglass with Baltek end-grain balsa coring in the hull sides. Besides adding stiffness to the structure, the coring helps wick the resin more deeply into the grain for superior strength and bonding." Also, found some posts on other threads saying the same, including one poster who suggested he confirmed it with GW.

Interesting. If that is the way the hull is fabricated then there could well be an issue with a hollow core. One way to tell is to drill some smallish holes near the spot where hollow becomes solid from the inside without penetrating the outer shell. I kind of doubt the seller will be very keen on that idea. I suppose the issue might be something that has been there from birth in which case I guess it's not that bad but at the same time it could be extensive rot.
I don't know what I would do except maybe get the opinion of a fiberglass repair glass expert who has some experience with those hulls.

 

[DennisG01]

Interesting to hear that, Pipe. I'll admit that I'm surprised that a cored hull side is being used in this size boat. But, I would also rather hear it directly from the horse's mouth (or yours, if you contact Grady directly) as opposed to what could be hearsay on the 'net.

 

[Pipehunter]

My surveyor was wondering as well, until he got up in the foc'sle and said he found it. Pretty thick balsa he said.

 

[DennisG01]

My surveyor was wondering as well, until he got up in the foc'sle and said he found it. Pretty thick balsa he said.

So... we've been talking about "does it, doesn't it" and this whole time your surveyor actually put eyes on the balsa? Ummmm... I think you could've led with that!

But... the foc'sle (forecastle) is the FORWARD part of the deck. Aren't we talking about the aft portion of the hull side?

 

[Pipehunter]

A Covid moment?

Yep, but I will tell you my surveyor is truly an expert on these matters (having surveyed probably 10,000 vessels, including the Manitou) and he didn't know if these boats were cored or not. Again, he said rot and told the broker the same.

 

[seasick]

So are you going to walk away?

 

[Pipehunter]

I'm torn. Hours are low and I will install the kits, now that the seller has discounted the price to cover that. I have an email into my surveyor to discuss what he thinks. Interested in anyone's thoughts, what they would do, etc. Thanks.

 

[DennisG01]

I think I would only proceed if you could find out EXACTLY where the rot is/isn't and offer appropriately. But... are there other suspect areas? Or, have the seller fix the issue and then re-survey. Otherwise... there are other boats in the sea.