2005 282 Sailfish Moisture Issue

[Fishtales]

I'd shoot a note to GW to verify construction.

 

[mleads310]

If you're able to get access to the boat again please take my advice on this and do the method I told you earlier about shining a very bright spotlight from the outside. You will be able to see through it and tell if there's some kind of delamination or rot going on. If I wasn't stuck in the house with kids all weekend I would go to my boat and take a picture of what I'm talking about to show you how it would look.

 

[Capnjim7]

I think you should call Grady....I am almost certain that the hull is balsa cored from the water line to the gunnel. If you are hearing hyper-resinant sounds on percussion with high moisture readings then there is the possibility of delamination. Another resource for you to call is Woolard and Nelson in Chocawinity NC. Troy Woolard worked for Grady for years and they do Grady's warranty work. He is all things Grady glass and will take time to talk to you.

 

[Pipehunter]

Good thought and thanks. I did speak with Troy Woolard and he was quite helpful. He advised that he believes these issues often arise from the boat bumping against piers or pilings, breaking the seals on the rub rail screws and thereafter allowing the water to enter from rain, splash, washing, etc. He opined that given what I told him, the balsa is likely little more than pulp in that area. He has several boats down there right now where he is working on the same issue, including another Sailfish and a Marlin. The fix is not inexpensive.

 

[seasick]

Sorry about that news but better now then later.
Your problem and results have been quite informative.
Good luck

 

[Pipehunter]

Thanks. I got a quote on a fix, with the hull back to looking good, at $8500. I have gone back to the seller and told him I will move forward with the rest of the survey, but only if the seller is agreeable to an additional reduction of $5k. We will see what he says.

 

[seasick]

I am interested in what approach the glass repairer would take. For example, cut out a panel on the outer skin and rebuild the coring vs cutting the inside and leaving the outer skin as is. That may not be an simple task since I assume a lot of things are in the way, like the deck!
I also am interested in the plan not only to fix the coring but to stop the water intrusion. If as stated, the seam between hull and deck mold is bad, how would he approach that?
Definitely not a job I would look forward to.

 

[SkunkBoat]

265 has cored sides. I was under the impression all "wide body" gradys have cored sides

 

[Pipehunter]

They advised that they are using a new technique whereby they shrink wrap the boat and put in an industrial strength dehumidifier to extract as much moisture as possible. Then they go in through the exterior as there is not enough room on the interior, take out as much as necessary. We didn't discuss it, but I assume he reseals where necessary. That said, if this is from bumping into the dock, it sounds like it is inevitable. But hell, I'm 64 I don't need it to last for 25 years. He also noted that he has another one in the shop with this problem on both sides, from stern to bow.

 

[Fishtales]

interesting. would not have thought that was the suspected case.

 

[Harpoon]

This is not an uncommon finding on Grady's. I think there is a very thin core used in the sides, likely thinner than the combination of layup on either side. I've had a couple opinions from surveyors on this for boats I was looking at, 1 is doom and gloom the other was "just run it" - in his opinion the glass layup on either side had sufficient integrity. Any chance the current owner will let you put a hole saw through so you can visualize what's going on ?

 

[seasick]

Folks,
I deleted one of my earlier comments on the moisture readings because I was w..... wro.... wron...... Heck I was inaccurate.
I did some more research on balsa cored hulls and discovered that in order to get a very high reading, the core will not be hollow. It has to be either filled with water or filled with wet mush which apparently is what balsa coring will turn into if it soaks in water. Based on the article I read, water has to get in between the laminate and the end-grain coring. Other than a hole or other penetration, the water could in theory get in at the hull to gunnel connection and seep between the coring and either the outside or inside glass layers. Water will only seep if there are voids or gaps between the coring and laminations. This is much less common in vacuumed bagged hull construction. I don't think that those Gradys are vacuum bagged.
All very interesting and a new learning experience for me. Perhaps not so rewarding for Pipehunter

 

[Pipehunter]

Well, I am still in the game. The Seller has agreed to another reduction. Now, the issue is how to get the sea trial done during a stay at home order.

 

[Fishtales]

It does turn to mush. Nasty.

 

[seasick]

Well, I am still in the game. The Seller has agreed to another reduction. Now, the issue is how to get the sea trial done during a stay at home order.

I admire your persistence. Look, if you end up with a boat you really wanted and at a decent price (maybe not a steal but you know what you need to do), then I support your decision.
Besides, I want to know how it all turns out!

 

[Fishtales]

I personally don't think it is a huge deal. Yes, it is water in some coring, but it is inside the hull not a stringer or critical structural component (I think).

 

[Toothpick 10]

Does this balsa provide any structural integrity of was it just there as form-work during construction?

Sorry, if this is a stupid question. I'm a civil engineer and not a boat builder, but when constructing buildings and bridges, components are sometimes used and needed during the construction process. Once construction is complete, some form-work cannot be removed due to access issues, but it provides no structural value to the completed project.

 

[seasick]

Does this balsa provide any structural integrity of was it just there as form-work during construction?

Sorry, if this is a stupid question. I'm a civil engineer and not a boat builder, but when constructing buildings and bridges, components are sometimes used and needed during the construction process. Once construction is complete, some form-work cannot be removed due to access issues, but it provides no structural value to the completed project.

Not stupid at all.
The coring is structural in the sense that it is laminated to the inner and outer layers of fiberglass forming a strong but much lighter weight composite. The balsa coring is installed end grain with the grains running from inner skin to outer skin. Although balsa as we know it is soft, it is fairly strong when compressed on the end grain. In addition and a critical point is that the end grain is very absorbent and that allows the resin to penetrate deeply. As long as that penetration is complete, the result is a strong and water resistant hunk of balsa. Unfortunately the layup method is not perfect and sometimes there is a dry spot issue or a separation between the end grain and the outer layers during manufacture that results in the balsa not soaking up as much resin as desired. In addition to resin balsa is also very good at absorbing water. The use of the vacuum bagging method of fabrication reduces the chances of the coring not absorbing resin since the vacuum sucks the resin into the wood pores more effectively that just 'wetting' the ends.

As suggested impacts on the laminated hull can cause small or big separations between the fiberglass and the coring.But it isn't the only cause. It is possible that the incomplete wetting of the core occurred during manufacturing.
When moisture gets (seeps or whatever) between the coring and the inner or outer glass, it will get absorbed easily by and balsa coring that is not entirely sealed with resin.
Wet balsa turns to mush due to a chemical process.
We see that we need at least two factors for the breakdown to occur; Moisture leaking in (think rub rail, gunnel to hull connection, etc and somewhat raw balsa wood.

 

[Late Again Grady]

I'm impressed by your persistence in finding out the details concerning the hull. However, I need to ask...have you questioned a competent mechanic on the cost to re-sleeve the 225's? I was quoted $7500 per engine just this summer on a pair of 04's. Just be prepared on all you're going to spend in getting this boat right. Good luck with everything.

 

[Lsquared]

I'm impressed by your persistence in finding out the details concerning the hull. However, I need to ask...have you questioned a competent mechanic on the cost to re-sleeve the 225's? I was quoted $7500 per engine just this summer on a pair of 04's. Just be prepared on all you're going to spend in getting this boat right. Good luck with everything.

you need to get another quote. I was quoted about 2500 per engine with the parts. mine has to get done now too but is still not bad they are 06 with 450 hours and just starting to show signs.