2005 Seafarer 228 Bilge wiring question

[player13]

My back bilge pump failed. I replaced it with an Attwood Tsunami since they don't make the original V1250 pump anymore. I decided to also replace the Sure Bail flow switch since it was also the original part with the Attwood float switch. I wired the new pump and float switch like the ones I replaced. Float switch wires to one connnector and the pump to the second connector. When I fill the compartment with water the flow switch rises but does not turn on the pump. I can turn the pump on from the console rocker switch and that work fine. Does anyone know if there's another part I need to replace? or any debugging advice?

The center bilge pump works fine with the float switch.

Thanks,
John

 

[mmiela]

Check the in-line fuses by the battery switch, my float switch didn’t work but the rocker switch turned the pump on. The 10amp fuse was blown.

 

[wrxhoon]

Check the fuse located near your battery switch, the float switch is wired before the battery switch so the bilge pump will work even if the batteries are turned off.

 

[seasick]

Do you have three wires feeding the pump/switch? If so, one will be ground (probably black) one will be brown and the third probably brown/red ( OK, I don't see colors very well so don't bet on the colors)
Anyway, one of the brown wires should have 12v on it at all times. That is the feed to the float switch and it connects directlt to a battery with an inline fuse. The other non black wire will only have 12 v when the manual pump switch on the panel is turned on(and the battery switches are ON)

If this voltages are correct and the pump only works on manual, you wired the float switch incorrectly (or it is defective). The float switch is easy to check. Assuming it is getting steady 12v its other connect should have 12V when you lift the float. Both the output of the float switch and the switched feed for the manual option should be connected together and to the red wire of the bilge pump.
It

 

[player13]

Thanks everyone for your input, it was the fuse that was blown. Appreciate the help.

 

[seasick]

That was easy The fuse could blow due to a stalled pump. That is normal. It could blow due to a short in the wiring. That is not so normal.
Just keep an eye on it and every once in a while lift the float to make sure the pump starts. Just using the manual pump switch does not check all the wiring. After a few checks with no issues, you can relax and enjoy just boating.

 

[Irishman]

Both my attwood V1250 are not working automatically. I would like advice on what I should buy?

 

[seasick]

I assume that the manual mode works. If so, the grounds are OK. The feed for automatic is separate from manual mode feed ( In a perfect world, if you have two pumps, each would have a separate feed connected to different batteries). The auto feed is wired directly to the battery switch or battery terminal with a fuse somewhere close to the battery.. Make sure the feed is live.
I don't like the electronic type of automatic pumps. I don't know which model 1250 you have so I can't be sure if it has an internal float or if it is electronic. In either case, I would pop the pump off the base and check for debris or gunk.
These pumps don't last forever and there are many to choose from at a wide range of prices. I would just avoid any electronic automatic models.
If your's have an internal float, see if a new similar model fits the old base, assuming the pump can be popped off the base. That makes replacement easier if the base is in a hard to reach spot for removing the mounting screws.

 

[luckydude]

I assume that the manual mode works. If so, the grounds are OK. The feed for automatic is separate from manual mode feed ( In a perfect world, if you have two pumps, each would have a separate feed connected to different batteries). The auto feed is wired directly to the battery switch or battery terminal with a fuse somewhere close to the battery.. Make sure the feed is live.
I don't like the electronic type of automatic pumps. I don't know which model 1250 you have so I can't be sure if it has an internal float or if it is electronic. In either case, I would pop the pump off the base and check for debris or gunk.
These pumps don't last forever and there are many to choose from at a wide range of prices. I would just avoid any electronic automatic models.
If your's have an internal float, see if a new similar model fits the old base, assuming the pump can be popped off the base. That makes replacement easier if the base is in a hard to reach spot for removing the mounting screws.

Adding a pump is on my list. And yeah, I'll run duplicate wiring, having two pumps on the same wires seems, um, not the best.
When you say electronic, I'm guessing it has a sensor? That seems like it would work in more cases than a float, a float can get gunk in there and jam. Though with the design of my 228, there aren't a lot of places where gunk can get in the bilge.

 

[seasick]

Some pumps test for water every few minutes. I suppose there is some sort of sensor. The problem with those pumps is that they can get stuck ON and run down the battery. If you aren't at the boat to check, the next time the pump should work is doesn't since the batter is run down. Of course other system may be affected due to the dead battery.

 

[luckydude]

Some pumps test for water every few minutes. I suppose there is some sort of sensor. The problem with those pumps is that they can get stuck ON and run down the battery. If you aren't at the boat to check, the next time the pump should work is doesn't since the batter is run down. Of course other system may be affected due to the dead battery.

Not trying to argue, trying to learn. My previous boat had a manual that got stuck on and ran down my battery. Seems like you can't win.
I think the Grady will be far less likely to have that sort of problem because almost everything drains to the outside, not via the bilge. That means less junk in the bilge which should mean less problems. My bilge is very clean and I've stored the boat outside, no cover, for 6 months. I like that design.

So do people have a strong preference for electronic or float? Should I start a new thread about that? I was thinking about asking over on THT but that place has been less reliable information than here.

 

[Blaugrana]

Adding a pump is on my list. And yeah, I'll run duplicate wiring, having two pumps on the same wires seems, um, not the best.
When you say electronic, I'm guessing it has a sensor? That seems like it would work in more cases than a float, a float can get gunk in there and jam. Though with the design of my 228, there aren't a lot of places where gunk can get in the bilge.

Assume you’ll run a new thru hull too? I have a 2000 that I would like another bilge pump on but can’t see drilling a new hole through it. I give you credit if you do that on your brand new one.

 

[Blaugrana]

Not trying to argue, trying to learn. My previous boat had a manual that got stuck on and ran down my battery. Seems like you can't win.
I think the Grady will be far less likely to have that sort of problem because almost everything drains to the outside, not via the bilge. That means less junk in the bilge which should mean less problems. My bilge is very clean and I've stored the boat outside, no cover, for 6 months. I like that design.

So do people have a strong preference for electronic or float? Should I start a new thread about that? I was thinking about asking over on THT but that place has been less reliable information than here.

Based on feedback on this site and THT, seems like separate units seem to be the preference. I am curious if the built in floats fails does the pump still work manually or not.

Seems like the constant cycling turns a lot of people off as mentioned up

 

[luckydude]

Assume you’ll run a new thru hull too? I have a 2000 that I would like another bilge pump on but can’t see drilling a new hole through it. I give you credit if you do that on your brand new one.

I was gonna punt on the through hull. I will plumb it into the existing tubing. That is not as safe as separate path but my boat is brand new and I've got at most 5 years of fishing. If I'm here 10 years from now, still fishing, I'll be stunned. And you can tell me I told you so. I think the plumbing will work for 5 years.

I think with a 5 year horizon, 2 pumps is smart, 2 sets of wiring going to different batteries is smart. Smart enough.

All of this stuff, you have to figure out what works for you.

This is a bit of a rant but I've had people here and on other forums send me private messages saying they like my posts. I'm a brand new idiot. I'll help as much as I can but there are far more experienced people here, I'm listening to them. I think where maybe I help is talking about how scary it is to be a new guy. I can't tell you guys how many people have opened up to me when I said I was scared. Huh, I'm not alone. Who knew? All you new guys? This is a friendly place to ask questions. The best words I have ever said are "I don't know about that, can you tell me?"

 

[glacierbaze]

You don’t think it’s a good idea to run a second pump on the same set of wiring, but you’re willing to add that second pump to the same plumbing. That is not a good choice. The discharge through hull is well above the waterline, it’s not like you’re adding a pick up on the bottom of the hull.
Volume in any plumbing system is limited by the smallest opening in that system. By discharging two pumps through one hose, you are effectively cutting your potential volume in half, if both pumps are running at the same time. If only one is running you will lose some volume draining back through the other pump.

 

[wrxhoon]

Adding a pump is on my list. And yeah, I'll run duplicate wiring, having two pumps on the same wires seems, um, not the best.
When you say electronic, I'm guessing it has a sensor? That seems like it would work in more cases than a float, a float can get gunk in there and jam. Though with the design of my 228, there aren't a lot of places where gunk can get in the bilge.

Your boat should have 2 pumps both automatic, one in the rear bilge and the other at the front, if you pull off the plate that is on the cabin floor you will see the other pump . You should have two overide switches on the panel as well .
If you want to add a third pump at the rear you have to run separate wiring and fuse because the wiringn and fuse there maynot be heavy enough to run two pumps. If you don't want to put another hole on the hull you can use the current plumbing as long as you don't think having the two pumps on they will pump out double the the current volume. The two pumps will pump more that one but less that two, if you want the extra pump for safety just in case the other two stuff up that's fine to plumb them in one hose . You have to use a Y and two one-way valves so when one pump goes on it pumps the water out and not back in the bilge via the other pumps hose.
Your boat should also have a high water alarm, you will see it if you take off the plate near the baitwell.
I have the same boat as you ( bit older ) and I'm happy with the two existing pumps but I have a manual pump just in case because you can't get a bucket in the bilge.

 

[luckydude]

Your boat should have 2 pumps both automatic, one in the rear bilge and the other at the front, if you pull off the plate that is on the cabin floor you will see the other pump . You should have two overide switches on the panel as well .
If you want to add a third pump at the rear you have to run separate wiring and fuse because the wiringn and fuse there maynot be heavy enough to run two pumps. If you don't want to put another hole on the hull you can use the current plumbing as long as you don't think having the two pumps on they will pump out double the the current volume. The two pumps will pump more that one but less that two, if you want the extra pump for safety just in case the other two stuff up that's fine to plumb them in one hose . You have to use a Y and two one-way valves so when one pump goes on it pumps the water out and not back in the bilge via the other pumps hose.
Your boat should also have a high water alarm, you will see it if you take off the plate near the baitwell.
I have the same boat as you ( bit older ) and I'm happy with the two existing pumps but I have a manual pump just in case because you can't get a bucket in the bilge.

My boat is like yours, pump fore and aft..

I was thinking an extra pump for safety, not for quicker pumping out.

I'll chew on it, I've got a brand new boat, everything works now, but safety is a concern. That said, the only way water gets into my bilge, if everything is working, is the 2 rear cup holders (so none) and if there is enough water in the cockpit that it goes in through the rod holders.
So it should be dry down there.

The thing is, when I pull the plug, I have never had water gush out, but it is wet in there, water is getting in somehow. I should stick a gopro down there and see if water is getting in, for all I know, I have a leak (brand new boat, should not have that), if so I need to get to dealer and get them to fix that.

 

[wrxhoon]

I doubt very much you have a leak if you only have a bit of water in the bilge , of course you can check the hose connections and in particular the livewell outlet. Easy to check at home, put a garden hose in the tank and then pull the the tube off to let the water go . Use a torch of the starboard side and you will see if it leaks.
I don't know about you but I use the baitwell most of the time and when I fish offshore in reasonably rough water the baitwell will spill water on the cup holders and even under the seats so some water will find it's way in the bilge . When very rough and say 2 people on the starboard side water will go in the bilge from the through hull bilge outlet.
Extra pump is always a good idea, comes handy if you hit something in the water maybe a submerged shipping container? We had a container ship drop about 60 off Sydney a couple months ago in rough seas.
A couple years ago I was about 25 kt miles offshore coming back to port when a boat called Mayday. They were taking on water, 3 on board, bailing out with a bucket and bilge pump going . They thought they were going down. Aluminum 23' boat , they hit something and put a 2' split under the keel. I escorted them to the boat ramp, ready to pick them up if the boat went down, when they put the boat on the trailer you could see the water gushing from the split .
A second or third bilge pump would have been handy there!

 

[Blaugrana]

My boat is like yours, pump fore and aft..

I was thinking an extra pump for safety, not for quicker pumping out.

I'll chew on it, I've got a brand new boat, everything works now, but safety is a concern. That said, the only way water gets into my bilge, if everything is working, is the 2 rear cup holders (so none) and if there is enough water in the cockpit that it goes in through the rod holders.
So it should be dry down there.

The thing is, when I pull the plug, I have never had water gush out, but it is wet in there, water is getting in somehow. I should stick a gopro down there and see if water is getting in, for all I know, I have a leak (brand new boat, should not have that), if so I need to get to dealer and get them to fix that.

I am of the same thinking as you as I would want the 2nd bilge pump as a precaution in case the other one stops working; not in case I need to pump out a lot of water.

However, after doing all that work with a second set of wiring, switch, hoses, etc, should you just bite the bullet and make another thru hull? This way you have both a backup and a pump that increases your pump out.

Btw..I do enjoy your posts and how you fire away...

 

[Blaugrana]

I doubt very much you have a leak if you only have a bit of water in the bilge , of course you can check the hose connections and in particular the livewell outlet. Easy to check at home, put a garden hose in the tank and then pull the the tube off to let the water go . Use a torch of the starboard side and you will see if it leaks.
I don't know about you but I use the baitwell most of the time and when I fish offshore in reasonably rough water the baitwell will spill water on the cup holders and even under the seats so some water will find it's way in the bilge . When very rough and say 2 people on the starboard side water will go in the bilge from the through hull bilge outlet.
Extra pump is always a good idea, comes handy if you hit something in the water maybe a submerged shipping container? We had a container ship drop about 60 off Sydney a couple months ago in rough seas.
A couple years ago I was about 25 kt miles offshore coming back to port when a boat called Mayday. They were taking on water, 3 on board, bailing out with a bucket and bilge pump going . They thought they were going down. Aluminum 23' boat , they hit something and put a 2' split under the keel. I escorted them to the boat ramp, ready to pick them up if the boat went down, when they put the boat on the trailer you could see the water gushing from the split .
A second or third bilge pump would have been handy there!

Where is the thru hull bilge outlet? I get water in the bilge, sometimes just a thin, damp layer but other times enough that when I turn my bilge pump on water comes out.

I’m curious if I am doing something that results in extra water coming in sometimes when I wash the boat or possibly stop somewhat suddenly. Can water enter where the cables go from the hull to the outboard on the 228? I have to check the livewell also.