2022 Freedom 235 electrical issues

[FishKaBob]

I have a 2022 Freedom 235 with a Yamaha 300 with about 110 hours on it over the last 15 months. About 2 months ago, the batteries went dead when something was left on overnight. Charged batteries and got the boat working….but not getting any power to the trim tabs. Over next 6 weeks, battery one kept going dead and I replaced it. Then, 2 weeks ago, The Yahama command link screen CL7 stopped working and the new battery has drained down 2-3 times. Yamaha authorized repair center cannot figure why the command link died, why the trim tabs are not working and what is drawing down battery one. They show power is getting to the command link and to the trim tabs but they seem dead. Also, twice when battery has gone dead then we restarted the boat, steering would not work until boat ran for 20 to 30 minutes until the battery got stronger by run in neutral at the dock. Repair guys asked about a possible lightning strike which I am 99% sure did not happen. Looking for any advice I can pass on to the guys at the Yamaha repair shop to try.

 

[Hookup1]

Check your battery charger and engine charging system...

This is a basic system test that can be done with a voltmeter. A Harbor Freight voltmeter is good enough. Start here and others can help going forward.

At the dock turns all your electronics on and disconnect the boat from shore power.

Put a volt meter on the starting battery and check voltage. Should be somewhere around 12.8 volts.
Check house battery. Should be around 12.8 volts. This is normal fully charged battery voltage.

Start the motor up. Check starting battery voltage. Should be around 13.1 volts.
Check house battery. Should be around 13.1 volts. This is normal voltage while engine is charging batteries.

Turn the engine off and reconnect shore power. Turn charger on. Both batteries should be around 13.1 volts indicating the charger is working. If you don't get charger voltage check inline fuse from charger at battery if your charger has one - common problem - sometimes they melt fuse holder.

If you have twin engines and a third house battery they are charged thru a shunt wire (engine charging cable) and the third bank on your battery charger. Same procedure as above.

 

[SkunkBoat]

First, Get an eyeball and a wrench on every battery and switch connection, INCLUDING the negative cables.

You have single motor and one 1/Both/2/OFF battery switch and two batteries?


The House +12V is connected to the COM or FEED post of the switch (along with the motor's Positive cable)

The normal running position of the switch is position 1. Battery 1 starts the motor and charges Battery 1 and feeds the House+12V.
The alternate running position is 2. Battery 2 starts the motor and charges Battery 2 and feeds the House+12V.
Do you have an Aux charging cable or an ACR setup from the motor to battery 2 to charge the Battery2 at all times??

"the batteries (PLURAL) went dead when something was left on overnight'

Please tell me you don't run on BOTH. Do you normally turn the battery switch to OFF when leaving the boat?

So either battery 1 is not charging from the motor or it is losing its charge even after you turn the switch to OFF to leave the boat.
You replaced Batt1?

When Battery 1 failed you switched to batt2 and evrything worked for a while?
Batt2 failed eventually too? You are not able to use just Batt2 and not have problems?

I should assume the Yamaha tech has checked that the motor is outputting a charge properly.

With the battery switch OFF, normally the only things connected directly (thru fuses or breakers) to batteries are bilge pump(s), possibly a "stereo memory" feed and possibly the Command Link Bus(not the screen).
If you have a stereo, unplug it completely and enjoy the silence until you figure this out.

The CL screen and the trim tabs are usually fed from the fuse panel under the dash which is fed from the House12V breaker which is not connected to a battery when the Battery Switch is OFF
The CL7 screen has no lights?Its completely dead? You checked its fuse?
What about your other electronics, pumps, lights, horn?
If you have a Garmin MFD that works, try using its power cable to power the CL7.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

What style of batteries do you have in the boat? I know that when I was looking at purchasing batteries a week ago or so, several different manufacturers and even my local GW dealer recommended against going with AGM style of batteries. They said that if you drain the batteries down too far, then they can be very difficult, or even impossible to get them to come back to life. If you have the AGM style of batteries, it's quite possible you've done the same thing.

 

[Hookup1]

Start simple. As Skunkboat said make sure all battery connections + and - are tight. Set battery switches to bank 1 and bank 2. Test the batteries and charging with the multimeter as above. Make sure you get the proper battery charging voltages to each battery. When fully charged turn charger off and check battery voltages.

Electronic equipment is sensitive to voltage. If the batteries are not fully charged they may not work correctly. If you are not starting out with 12.8 volt batteries STOP. Either the battery is bad or it isn't charging.

What type of charger is installed? I have ProMariner charger. It works fine but the inline fuses can be a real problem. Check your fuses if charging voltage isn't present.

Some service managers/techs listen politely to your diagnosis and tips to fix things. When you walk away they ignore it and do what they want. I would encourage you to understand the troubleshooting and ask the right questions.

 

[FishKaBob]

First, Get an eyeball and a wrench on every battery and switch connection, INCLUDING the negative cables.

You have single motor and one 1/Both/2/OFF battery switch and two batteries?


The House +12V is connected to the COM or FEED post of the switch (along with the motor's Positive cable)

The normal running position of the switch is position 1. Battery 1 starts the motor and charges Battery 1 and feeds the House+12V.
The alternate running position is 2. Battery 2 starts the motor and charges Battery 2 and feeds the House+12V.
Do you have an Aux charging cable or an ACR setup from the motor to battery 2 to charge the Battery2 at all times??

"the batteries (PLURAL) went dead when something was left on overnight'

Please tell me you don't run on BOTH. Do you normally turn the battery switch to OFF when leaving the boat?

So either battery 1 is not charging from the motor or it is losing its charge even after you turn the switch to OFF to leave the boat.
You replaced Batt1?

When Battery 1 failed you switched to batt2 and evrything worked for a while?
Batt2 failed eventually too? You are not able to use just Batt2 and not have problems?

I should assume the Yamaha tech has checked that the motor is outputting a charge properly.

With the battery switch OFF, normally the only things connected directly (thru fuses or breakers) to batteries are bilge pump(s), possibly a "stereo memory" feed and possibly the Command Link Bus(not the screen).
If you have a stereo, unplug it completely and enjoy the silence until you figure this out.

The CL screen and the trim tabs are usually fed from the fuse panel under the dash which is fed from the House12V breaker which is not connected to a battery when the Battery Switch is OFF
The CL7 screen has no lights?Its completely dead? You checked its fuse?
What about your other electronics, pumps, lights, horn?
If you have a Garmin MFD that works, try using its power cable to power the CL7.

Yes….single motor with 2 batteries and a 1/both/2/off switch.

Not sure on the Aux cable or ACR setup??

I replaced battery one. boat seems to work now from battery 2 but battery 2 has also died once or twice.

try to alternate using battery one and battery 2 while running

All fuses seem to be intact. Garmin and other devices seem to all work. the CL7 has no lights and seems dead. Tech said power is getting to the CL7 but won’t turn on.

Stereo is not turned on and has rarely been used.

 

[FishKaBob]

What style of batteries do you have in the boat? I know that when I was looking at purchasing batteries a week ago or so, several different manufacturers and even my local GW dealer recommended against going with AGM style of batteries. They said that if you drain the batteries down too far, then they can be very difficult, or even impossible to get them to come back to life. If you have the AGM style of batteries, it's quite possible you've done the same thing.

 

[FishKaBob]

this is the battery installed by Grady when I bought the boat. I replaced one of them with a new battery from West Marine…..but that one seems to be having problems as well

 

[Mustang65fbk]

If both batteries got drained down low enough and you only replaced the one battery, I’d start by replacing the second one as well. I actually just replaced both of my batteries last week with similar Interstate 24M-XHD’s and after turning the key for the first time, you’d just hear a “click” and the boat wouldn’t start. I tightened up all the connections on the battery terminals, made sure everything was making contact and then she started right up. I’d get a new battery to replace the one that hasn’t been swapped out yet. Hopefully it could even still be under warranty? And then check all over your connections to make sure they’re tight and making contact, as the battery terminals are rather thin. And some of the connectors are larger than the terminals are.

 

[Peter A]

Confirming that you ran the boat in the “both” position, shut down engine but did not shut off the battery switch and completely drained both batteries. Then tried to rescue the batteries, which is pretty dicey regardless of gel, AGM, or traditional wet and requires a good charger. Then replaced one battery.

- Your “new” battery should have been fully charged before install, using an appropriate charger. It also needs to be the same type as the second (AGM, etc.). I have had new batteries be crap more than once (car, not marine but no matter)
- The “old” battery also needs to be fully charged and load tested
- Connecting “both” via battery select switch with one damaged battery will end up screwing up the new one, especially if you run that way.
- Running on a bad battery puts a heavy load on the alternator and voltage regulator…you can burn out a diode or on a modern alternator cause issues with computer controlled charging routines and default safety modes to prevent alternator damage. So alternator output needs to be checked.
- Low voltage with a bad battery will cause havoc with other systems that have high start-up/intermittent power requirements.
- The fact that your electric steering does not work for awhile suggests that battery won’t hold a charge and only works after the alternator has jammed some power into the battery and the system has ability to handle surge loading.

I would start from square one, fully charge and load test each battery. Then connect both batteries to boat system. Clean terminals, etc. Try to start and run on 1 or 2, not both. Check running volts, low 13’s at the batteries and high 13/low 14’s at alternator.

I suspect that two good batteries, maybe both new, will solve your issue.

I use AGM batteries. There are advantages and disadvantages to each type. AGM batteries can be discharged more deeply, are more tolerant of vibration, have high power output per size. I believe how long a battery lasts is more related to build quality and how the battery is used/maintained. A crappy AGM battery is of course just that. Just checked my 2021 208 owners manual which states that Grady uses Deka AGM batteries. I have no dog in the battery selection fight, use what you think is best for your application/opinion/budget.

 

[FishKaBob]

Confirming that you ran the boat in the “both” position, shut down engine but did not shut off the battery switch and completely drained both batteries. Then tried to rescue the batteries, which is pretty dicey regardless of gel, AGM, or traditional wet and requires a good charger. Then replaced one battery.

- Your “new” battery should have been fully charged before install, using an appropriate charger. It also needs to be the same type as the second (AGM, etc.). I have had new batteries be crap more than once (car, not marine but no matter)
- The “old” battery also needs to be fully charged and load tested
- Connecting “both” via battery select switch with one damaged battery will end up screwing up the new one, especially if you run that way.
- Running on a bad battery puts a heavy load on the alternator and voltage regulator…you can burn out a diode or on a modern alternator cause issues with computer controlled charging routines and default safety modes to prevent alternator damage. So alternator output needs to be checked.
- Low voltage with a bad battery will cause havoc with other systems that have high start-up/intermittent power requirements.
- The fact that your electric steering does not work for awhile suggests that battery won’t hold a charge and only works after the alternator has jammed some power into the battery and the system has ability to handle surge loading.

I would start from square one, fully charge and load test each battery. Then connect both batteries to boat system. Clean terminals, etc. Try to start and run on 1 or 2, not both. Check running volts, low 13’s at the batteries and high 13/low 14’s at alternator.

I suspect that two good batteries, maybe both new, will solve your issue.

I use AGM batteries. There are advantages and disadvantages to each type. AGM batteries can be discharged more deeply, are more tolerant of vibration, have high power output per size. I believe how long a battery lasts is more related to build quality and how the battery is used/maintained. A crappy AGM battery is of course just that. Just checked my 2021 208 owners manual which states that Grady uses Deka AGM batteries. I have no dog in the battery selection fight, use what you think is best for your application/opinion/budget.

Thanks for your response. Clearly I have a lot to learn about better battery maintenance. That kind of information isn’t shared when you are taking delivery of the boat. It still seems odd that this level of battery problems would kill/ruin the command link screen and the trim tabs? Any thoughts on how that would happen?

 

[seasick]

Was the authorized center you mentioned, also the dealer you bought the boat from? If so, and maybe regardless, if the repair facility can't fix the problem, they should have escalated to Grady corporate.
One concern now is that you did work on the boat and that can complicate the issue..
So if you want to find the problem on your own and you are somewhat handy with electrical diagnostics, you don't need a voltmeter per se. You need a clip on amp probe. It also is a digital voltmeter but if you have an excessive parasitic drain, you need amperage readings.
Assuming that your current drain is one of the loads, your first steps are to measure the parasitic drain , confirm it is excessive ( it should be quite low) and then disconnect all loads to confirm that the drain has returned to normal. Then you reconnect loads one at a time (but turned OFF) and see when the drain jumps up. I am not sure what the trim tab relationship is but I would look at that later.
Can you confirm that the drain and run down batteries occurs when the boat is not being used and doesn't happen when the boat is being used.
Skunkboat has some good info on his post. Follow those also.
He also asked what position you leave the battery switches when docked overnight. That is important info to know.

Finally, have you added any additional equipment to the boat that is powered directly off of the batteries?

 

[Rustygaff]

With the batteries switched off, do you hear anything running? Just looking to eliminate a stuck bilge pump switch that could kill the batteries when the boat is unattended.

 

[Hookup1]

Yes….single motor with 2 batteries and a 1/both/2/off switch. - Leave them in 1 and 2 position.

Not sure on the Aux cable or ACR setup?? - You will know if engine charges the second battery with the voltmeter.

I replaced battery one. boat seems to work now from battery 2 but battery 2 has also died once or twice.

try to alternate using battery one and battery 2 while running

All fuses seem to be intact. Garmin and other devices seem to all work. the CL7 has no lights and seems dead. Tech said power is getting to the CL7 but won’t turn on. - Not just power to the unit. Voltages reading? Most electronics require at least 10 VDC and adequate amperage to power up.

Stereo is not turned on and has rarely been used. - Does it have a big AMP? If not properly wired the AMP could be "always on".

Get voltages. My bet is batteries not charging or are bad. I don't care how old they are or if the fuses have been checked. Get voltages.

	Battery 1	Battery 2
Engine off, charger off	12.8 VDC expected	12.8 VDC expected
Engine on charger off	13.1 VDC expected	13.1 VDC expected
Engine off charger on	13.1 VDC expected	13.1 VDC expected

If all good then get amp meter and check for what is draining them.

If you decide to go to AGM batteries make sure your charger supports AGM charging profile.

I fought gremlin low voltage on the water and dead battery in the morning issues for a few years. Long story but problems solved. Wound up with ProMariner ProSportHD 20-amp 3-bank charger, Duracell AGM's from Sam's club and charging shunts from both engines. 4-bank setup so NOCO charger and charged from second engine for 4th battery. Big problem over the years was crap in-line fuse holders at the battery terminals heating up/burning up on ProMariner charger. Charger was on but not charging battery because of the fuse. ProSportHD version solved all that.

 

[seasick]

There may be two problems: One or both batteries are not be charged and 2: Something is running down one or both batteries when docked.
Can you explain how and with what, you charged the batteries?

 

[SkunkBoat]

As for the CL7. It is made by Garmin. the power cable from the Garmin (depending on model) may fit the CL7.
Since you know the Garmin works, if you plug in the CL7 to that cable and it doesn't work then the CL7 is broken.
It may be under warranty from Yamaha?
If it works, you have a connection problem.

As for the trim tabs. they say they have power. that can be misread if they are connecting the meter to a ground point that is good and measuring the positive 12V feed. It is possible the negative side (ground) of the trim is not connected. Its very hard to troubleshoot something like this over text.

The CL7, trim and Battery may be related or may have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Part of the troubleshooting scheme needs to be isolating the CL7 and the Trim by pulling their fuses or otherwise disconnecting them.
Then troubleshoot the batteries/charging problem.

At the batterries, look for directly connected devices like the bigle pump(s).. usually brown with red stripe wire. Verify that the Dash switches and float switches operate the pumps and that they are not stuck on. I have seen pumps jammed but not blow a fuse.

If there is a "Memory" feed and fuse at the battery, remove the fuse. Often it is a red&pink wire.

Is there anything else, besides the Battery Switch, connected directly to a positive post of a battery?

 

[FishKaBob]

Was the authorized center you mentioned, also the dealer you bought the boat from? If so, and maybe regardless, if the repair facility can't fix the problem, they should have escalated to Grady corporate.
One concern now is that you did work on the boat and that can complicate the issue..
So if you want to find the problem on your own and you are somewhat handy with electrical diagnostics, you don't need a voltmeter per se. You need a clip on amp probe. It also is a digital voltmeter but if you have an excessive parasitic drain, you need amperage readings.
Assuming that your current drain is one of the loads, your first steps are to measure the parasitic drain , confirm it is excessive ( it should be quite low) and then disconnect all loads to confirm that the drain has returned to normal. Then you reconnect loads one at a time (but turned OFF) and see when the drain jumps up. I am not sure what the trim tab relationship is but I would look at that later.
Can you confirm that the drain and run down batteries occurs when the boat is not being used and doesn't happen when the boat is being used.
Skunkboat has some good info on his post. Follow those also.
He also asked what position you leave the battery switches when docked overnight. That is important info to know.

Finally, have you added any additional equipment to the boat that is powered directly off of the batterie

As for the CL7. It is made by Garmin. the power cable from the Garmin (depending on model) may fit the CL7.
Since you know the Garmin works, if you plug in the CL7 to that cable and it doesn't work then the CL7 is broken.
It may be under warranty from Yamaha?
If it works, you have a connection problem.

As for the trim tabs. they say they have power. that can be misread if they are connecting the meter to a ground point that is good and measuring the positive 12V feed. It is possible the negative side (ground) of the trim is not connected. Its very hard to troubleshoot something like this over text.

The CL7, trim and Battery may be related or may have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Part of the troubleshooting scheme needs to be isolating the CL7 and the Trim by pulling their fuses or otherwise disconnecting them.
Then troubleshoot the batteries/charging problem.

At the batterries, look for directly connected devices like the bigle pump(s).. usually brown with red stripe wire. Verify that the Dash switches and float switches operate the pumps and that they are not stuck on. I have seen pumps jammed but not blow a fuse.

If there is a "Memory" feed and fuse at the battery, remove the fuse. Often it is a red&pink wire.

Is there anything else, besides the Battery Switch, connected directly to a positive post of a battery?

Thanks for all your great ideas. The boat is still at the shop so I plan to share this information with the techs tomorrow morning. I’ll let you know what they say. Thanks again!!

 

[agoltz]

Ive had this problem several times. Always ends up being a bilge pump that stays on because something is keeping the float open

 

[Peter A]

Check your manual for fuse locations. On my 208 (MY2021) which may have a similar electric system layout, the manual indicates a 1.5amp fuse for the hydraulic trim tabs inline with the Yamaha Ignition Panel, on an ORANGE 22-gauge wire (thin wire, higher gauge numbers are thinner). This circuit is for the ignition on/tab switch/tab auto-retract function and I suspect also the digital gauge display which activates with the ignition “on”. A fuse this small might feed a relay which actually powers the devices. Note that a minor power surge (like having the ignition in the on position or a short in the switch, when hooking up a new battery) can easily blow a 1.5amp fuse.

The power to the tab pump/motor on the 208 is a separate 20amp in the fuse block in back of the boat, 14-gauge ORANGE wire. This circuit can test good (meaning power is available to the tab), but nothing will happen if the switch circuit is ‘effed-up.

Can’t be sure if your boat is wired like a 208 and I won’t be on my boat until next weekend to confirm what my manual says. Manuals are available on the Captain Grady App!

Good reminder for me to put some smaller 1.5amp fuses in the electrical repair kit, along with a cheap multimeter. I already have a circuit tester (looks like a screwdriver with a needle point and a lead with an alligator clip off the bottom), loops of various gauge wire, wire stripper, butane torch and no-solder quick connectors/pigtails in various sizes.

Good luck!

 

[FREEDOM!!!]

Not much to add other than I killed my battery #1 a couple months ago by accidentally leaving it "on" for several days. Switched over to #2 and ran the boat for a couple of days and it eventually charged #1 back up to normal. I guess my only contribution is that the batteries should be connected so that when running both batteries are charging. Seems odd that only certain systems are effected by your battery issue.