Looks like crap! Faded, washed out trim pieces around the whole thing. What are people replacing it with? Can you sand it to a new surface that would look OK if protected? This stuff is really below Grady standards. I was thinking teak would be a great improvement, but not picky.....starboard would be fine with me but abit pricy. Any ideas appreciated!
208 wood grain cockpit trim
- Thread starter ric2352
- Start date
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Do yourself a favor and do some searches on this and them make up your mind what you think. Lots of variables.
1. Grady says to recoat the Duratrim with Penetrol. I tried this and it does help make it look better. Easy to apply. Just wipe on and let it dry. Some additional coats might improve if first coat is not satisfactory. I used it on my trim around the helm area where less sun has done the damage over time and happy with it so far.
2. Use PVC trim. Very soft and will gouge and dent. Used it before starboard first year after replacing duratrim and was not happy with the look after dents and gouges. So moved to Starboard.
3. Use Starboard trim. Expands/contracts quite a bit with temperature. Will bow out between screws. Fix....apply more screws. But this can become more sightly at some point. It is great at stain resistance and damage from dents/gouges. I have done my entire cockpit with it and added more screws on the transom piece as it was bowing more than those on the gunnel sides.
So far, I have not found any low maintenance product with long term searching and seems no one else has found a product as good as the original duratrim. It is ashame someone is not still making it. Not sure why they stopped using it as mine was still pretty good after 20+ years of weather exposure.
I see that Grady is now using a vinyl trim on the new boats. In some cases, it looks good, but I have found it to peel off or look bad where it meets a transitional piece. However, I might consider this for the gunnels at some point. It is fairly pricey. Just not sure how well it will stay stuck longterm.
Here is one of the links on the discussions. Search in Google under Grady Duratrim and you will find lots of data.
1. Grady says to recoat the Duratrim with Penetrol. I tried this and it does help make it look better. Easy to apply. Just wipe on and let it dry. Some additional coats might improve if first coat is not satisfactory. I used it on my trim around the helm area where less sun has done the damage over time and happy with it so far.
2. Use PVC trim. Very soft and will gouge and dent. Used it before starboard first year after replacing duratrim and was not happy with the look after dents and gouges. So moved to Starboard.
3. Use Starboard trim. Expands/contracts quite a bit with temperature. Will bow out between screws. Fix....apply more screws. But this can become more sightly at some point. It is great at stain resistance and damage from dents/gouges. I have done my entire cockpit with it and added more screws on the transom piece as it was bowing more than those on the gunnel sides.
So far, I have not found any low maintenance product with long term searching and seems no one else has found a product as good as the original duratrim. It is ashame someone is not still making it. Not sure why they stopped using it as mine was still pretty good after 20+ years of weather exposure.
I see that Grady is now using a vinyl trim on the new boats. In some cases, it looks good, but I have found it to peel off or look bad where it meets a transitional piece. However, I might consider this for the gunnels at some point. It is fairly pricey. Just not sure how well it will stay stuck longterm.
Here is one of the links on the discussions. Search in Google under Grady Duratrim and you will find lots of data.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Ah, I forgot to mention the other scenario. Some others have painted theirs and liked it, but no one has come back with experience after about a year or so.
From being a former professional painter, I would say that spray paint by nature is very soft and will marr or scratch very easily. Adhesion is another issue, but one would think the plasti-coat would benefit in this area.
I did forget to mention the foot rail issue I had. I painted the original duratrim footrail with Awlgrip which is a strong urethane based paint. Even then, I still had some scratches and chips from landing fish, etc.
I ordered some 1/2" thick starboard and routed the edges to round it and make it more comfortable to the top of the foot. This worked very well except the 1/2" is very wavy due to heat and expansion.
If you notice the newer Grady's, the used either 3/4" or 1" I think.
I will be re-ordering 1" thick to give more stability. I just don't like that wavy look.
Starboard is an excellent product in regards to stain, wear and overall durability. Only issue is it is not stable in temperature changes . So far, this is the only product so far that will work for me.
Some others did replace their duratrim and went back to real teak. That is ok if you like the look and maintenance of it. I think it looks good, but if you want your older Grady to look newer, they don't use the wood look anymore.
I was so tired of the maintenance of teak from my older boat, it was exiting to see a product like duratrim come out.
From being a former professional painter, I would say that spray paint by nature is very soft and will marr or scratch very easily. Adhesion is another issue, but one would think the plasti-coat would benefit in this area.
I did forget to mention the foot rail issue I had. I painted the original duratrim footrail with Awlgrip which is a strong urethane based paint. Even then, I still had some scratches and chips from landing fish, etc.
I ordered some 1/2" thick starboard and routed the edges to round it and make it more comfortable to the top of the foot. This worked very well except the 1/2" is very wavy due to heat and expansion.
If you notice the newer Grady's, the used either 3/4" or 1" I think.
I will be re-ordering 1" thick to give more stability. I just don't like that wavy look.
Starboard is an excellent product in regards to stain, wear and overall durability. Only issue is it is not stable in temperature changes . So far, this is the only product so far that will work for me.
Some others did replace their duratrim and went back to real teak. That is ok if you like the look and maintenance of it. I think it looks good, but if you want your older Grady to look newer, they don't use the wood look anymore.
I was so tired of the maintenance of teak from my older boat, it was exiting to see a product like duratrim come out.
ROBERTH said:
The efficient of expansion for Starboard is basically the same for the different thicknesses. The secret to success is two fold: leave room for expansion and when possible make the mounting holes elongated so that the material can move with temperature changes. If it cant move it will bow or bulge. For straight runs, one end can be fixed in place ( a regulate hole) but as you move along the materials length the holes need moor room for movement.
Looking up the materials fact sheets will tell you how much yo can expect the plastic to change in length, width or depth for a giver temperature swing. For boats, the temp swings can be pretty large, a hundred degrees and more.
ROBERTH said:
I remember looking at one new Grady at a boat show and noticing it was 1" think and had a decorative edge at the top like the figure below. They probably added that so it wouldn't look too bulky being a full 1" thick.
The expansion-contraction problem is common in "fine" woodworking when attaching cross grain pieces because they grow and shrink at different rates with moisture. To deal with that we "pin it" in the middle (i.e., no slot) and slot the ends according to the expected amount of movement.
Here is an interesting variation on a Parker that would be stiff and provide a bit of storage:
http://www.classicparker.com/phpBB3/vie ... =11&t=7497
Edge profile for top of Toe Rail:
Attachments
-
toe_edge.png
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
That is the same edge I routed on my footrail as well. It looked just like what Grady is installing on newer models.
Pinning in middle is ok, but on ends, there is no way to do the slot as the screws are tapered and go in tight into the fiberglass. If not, they would be loose and just keep backing out. Same for trim strips. All screws are tapered so they are flush and the slots would not work as the screws would hold and not allow movement. Not sure how to put a screw into fiberglass and leave it just loose enough to allow movement but yet not be too loose and back out or get hung up on the screw heads sticking out. :hmm
Pinning in middle is ok, but on ends, there is no way to do the slot as the screws are tapered and go in tight into the fiberglass. If not, they would be loose and just keep backing out. Same for trim strips. All screws are tapered so they are flush and the slots would not work as the screws would hold and not allow movement. Not sure how to put a screw into fiberglass and leave it just loose enough to allow movement but yet not be too loose and back out or get hung up on the screw heads sticking out. :hmm
ROBERTH said:
for the footrail you could epoxy a nutsert into the hull and use a bolt and locktite. optionally you can use a small rectangle of 1/4" stainless with a threaded hole in the middle and two holes for screws into the fibreglass on either side.
for the trim you could use nuts and bolts and locktite.
that being said, i'd also rather find a more stable material.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Good thoughts..lots of work though for some of this. For now, the expansion is not too bad. When I order the thicker foot rail this winter, will look more into how to make it work better on the foot rail.
I replaced all the trim on my old 204 with Starboard. Looked great. For the long pieces, I simply "oblonged" the holes futher out from the center of the peice and secured everything with screws and finish washers. Don't snug the screws down super tight though. This gives the Starboard the ability to slide under the washer and helps with the bowing.
One of the previous owners of my 227 replaced the cockpit trim with what appears to be PVC. Looks like crap IMO. I will most likely being going back to real teak when the time comes.
One of the previous owners of my 227 replaced the cockpit trim with what appears to be PVC. Looks like crap IMO. I will most likely being going back to real teak when the time comes.
I am also a fan of going back to teak. Have a 1994 tournament 192 where the duratrim was shot. Thought about the starboard but didn't like the idea of bowing with temp changes. The teak looks great. My 192 doesn't gave too much trim, so I like the look.
The California Eco-fascists have struck again.....can't buy Penetrol here! Looks like oil based paints and stains are going away too....what a crock! If I could get some I'd do the Penetrol thing for now. Thanks for all the ideas!
Yeah...I'll figure it out...got a buddy with a house in Nevada. Will have him get me a quart next time he's there. Why do things seem to be getting more difficult?DennisG01 said:
ric2352 said:
Ha. Because they are. But don't worry, the people that make the laws know what's best for all of us. Apparently we're supposed to be lemmings. And we all know how it worked out for the lemmings.