228 - making it water tight?

[luckydude]

Well, learn something every day. I'm more old school than I thought.

Does anyone other than me feel a little worried that no battery means no engine? What if you took on some water and it shorted out the batteries?

 

[Bloodweiser]

I think if your taking on water up to batteries your in trouble. Hopefully you catch that major leak before it. Gets that far.

 

[Lite Tackle]

Get one of these, keep charged and onboard. Cheap insurance.

Portable battery pack

 

[luckydude]

Get one of these, keep charged and onboard. Cheap insurance.

Portable battery pack

I have one of those and plan on bringing it. But I'd need to rig some way to plumb it into the system, not gonna help much if the batteries are covered in water to clamp on to the terminals. I realize I'll probably never face this but if the engine was off, or stalled, the cockpit is swamped, you'd need some terminals on the transom or someplace high to clamp on and get the engine started.

I'm starting to be less worried about the water in the bilge, the bilge cover (the big one) was not sealed. The dealer sealed it up and now it is harder to get water down there, the cockpit has to be filled up to the rod holders under the gunnels. If I'm really worried about it I could seal up that lower opening.

I'm still sort of amazed that they have a design where the engine can't keep going without a battery. If the voltage needs to be cleaned up, you would think they could do that. I'm gonna turn the batteries off, plug my jumper into the cigarette outlet and see if the wiring is beefy enough to start the engine. I tend to doubt it, I'll let you know if it works.

 

[Bloodweiser]

'm still sort of amazed that they have a design where the engine can't keep going without a battery. If the voltage needs to be cleaned up, you would think they could do that. I'm gonna turn the batteries off, plug my jumper into the cigarette outlet and see if the wiring is beefy enough to start the engine. I tend to doubt it, I'll let you know if it works.

probably a good reason there are two batteries and you only use one for cranking, in a emergency switching to both/all should get you started( and you better be heading to port at that point imo) . Also a good reason to be concerned about these things which you are and maintain your boat.

 

[luckydude]

probably a good reason there are two batteries and you only use one for cranking, in a emergency switching to both/all should get you started( and you better be heading to port at that point imo) . Also a good reason to be concerned about these things which you are and maintain your boat.

Yeah, the whole water tight thing is what got me thinking about all this. I do have the bilge cover sealed now so it is harder for water to get in there. Still could happen so I'm just sorting through the possibilities. I'm gonna add a kicker that has a pull start and runs battery-less, that gives me some hope I could keep the boat pointed right if the main conks out.

I won't pretend I can think of everything but I should at least get the obvious stuff right.

 

[leeccoll]

The alternator on the kicker will also charge the system if that ever happens. Same reason I opted for a pull start kicker that also has electric start and trim...worst case scenario.

 

[luckydude]

The alternator on the kicker will also charge the system if that ever happens. Same reason I opted for a pull start kicker that also has electric start and trim...worst case scenario.

Yeah, exactly. I want exact same setup, pull + electric start, power trim, and a alternator that can charge.

One thing I just noticed is that the Tohatsu 20, 15, and 9.9hp all share a 333cc engine. So perhaps the smaller ones are just tuned down versions. Given that the 20hp is the same weight as the 9.9, would it move a 228 any faster? It's 8% of my 250hp or 4%. I sort of doubt it would move it twice as fast but if it would, that's sort of interesting.

Edit: might be moot point, I need the extra long shaft and they don't appear to offer that on any of those other than the 9.9.

 

[Doc Stressor]

Since the resistance of the hull moving through the water greatly increase once you reach hull speed (a function of length), a 20 hp engine will not move you significantly faster than a 9.9. Hull speed is 6-7 mph for your boat.

 

[leeccoll]

Correct Doc!

I get 6.5-6.8 mph.

 

[Pighunter]

Yeah, exactly. I want exact same setup, pull + electric start, power trim, and a alternator that can charge.

One thing I just noticed is that the Tohatsu 20, 15, and 9.9hp all share a 333cc engine. So perhaps the smaller ones are just tuned down versions. Given that the 20hp is the same weight as the 9.9, would it move a 228 any faster? It's 8% of my 250hp or 4%. I sort of doubt it would move it twice as fast but if it would, that's sort of interesting.

Edit: might be moot point, I need the extra long shaft and they don't appear to offer that on any of those other than the 9.9.

You want to be sure and get a HIGH THRUST motor. A 8hp HT will push your 228 just fine. 9.9HT even better.

 

[leeccoll]

Yeah, exactly. I want exact same setup, pull + electric start, power trim, and a alternator that can charge.

One thing I just noticed is that the Tohatsu 20, 15, and 9.9hp all share a 333cc engine. So perhaps the smaller ones are just tuned down versions. Given that the 20hp is the same weight as the 9.9, would it move a 228 any faster? It's 8% of my 250hp or 4%. I sort of doubt it would move it twice as fast but if it would, that's sort of interesting.

Edit: might be moot point, I need the extra long shaft and they don't appear to offer that on any of those other than the 9.9.

And don't know if you committed to a kicker yet, but it's sure nice to use the same brand as the main engine IMHO.

 

[Bloodweiser]

And don't know if you committed to a kicker yet, but it's sure nice to use the same brand as the main engine IMHO.

Your thinking of integrated controls and gauges? This something I'm Interested in down the road... Just can't dump more money in this boat for awhile.

 

[luckydude]

You want to be sure and get a HIGH THRUST motor. A 8hp HT will push your 228 just fine. 9.9HT even better.

That was the plan. Tohatsu 9.9, 25", EFI, power tilt, power and manual start, high thrust. And steering linkage. Around $4K installed.

To leeccoll who said same brand, I like that Tohatsu is lighter and is fuel injected. Yamaha is heavier and carb-ed. And over on THT I got multiple people who said they prefered Tohatsu over Yamaha (I have to believe that that is for kickers, Grady puts Yamaha their boats for a reason, if Tohatsu 250's were better than Yamaha 250's I think I would have heard that by now).

 

[Bloodweiser]

Beware of THT advice... Some good.. Some questionable... Just 2cents

 

[luckydude]

They call the stator an alternator. This is what creates the electricity for the spark. It also feeds the rectifier with the electricity that it needs to charge. The rectifier has diodes that are like one way valves for the electricity into the battery. When the battery is missing, the electricity has nowhere to go and backs up in the rectifier and overheats the stator and the rectifier.rectifier is also called voltage regulator.

This seems like the best explanation. It leads to questions though. What if your batteries are fully charged, where does the electricity go then?
Or does it have a sensor that knows what the battery needs and shuts off the flow somehow when the battery is full? If it can do that, couldn't it also detect no battery and shut off the flow in that case?

It might seem academic or whatever, but I'd like to understand this. If there is a way to modify the system so it could run without batteries that might save my butt if the bilge ever flooded.

Do you, or anyone, know how Tohatsu made their 9.9hp kicker run with or without a battery?

 

[Sparkdog118]

Haven’t worked on the new Tohatsu motor. Maybe like the E-TEC does it. They can pull start without a battery.

Since Evinrude E-TEC doesn't need a charge coil or a sensor coil (because these functions are controlled by the EMM), a full-diameter stator which uses more windings is employed. Powerful rare earth magnets are used on the flywheel and, by adapting patented switching stator technology, the stator is able to generate more current at lower rpm.

The voltage required to turn on and "boot up" the EMM is delivered in a few milli-seconds. By integrating pulse width modulation technology (which has been used on electric trolling motors for decades), E-TEC is able to power up the electric fuel pump and not put an excessive demand on the electrical system while starting the motor. The EMM and fuel pump power up take place in the first third of a revolution of the flywheel. The EMM then determines crankshaft position via a sensor which "reads" the flywheel encoder vanes - all of this occurs within the first complete flywheel revolution. This leaves plenty of rope to pull and provides ample voltage to subsequently fire the injectors and ignition and get the engine running.