228 Repower

[Pescadote]

First season with my 1996 Seafarer 228, and I am a little underwhelmed with my 200 HPDI Yamaha, so I'm thinking of a repower. I know my transom is sound because I had to redo that. I also have a T8 kicker hanging on the back, so weight is a concern for me. I am looking at 250 HP Yamaha, Suzuki, and Mercury. It's been hard going from a four stroke back to a 2 stroke.

Pros and Cons for each that I can think of:

Yamaha: I have always had Yammies so that's what I know - weight is around 550 lbs. Same price as Merc.

Mercury: Newer V8 Technology - the lightest at 527 lbs. Same price as Yamaha

Suzuki: Heaviest at a shade over 600 lbs, but also the lightest on the wallet at $4,000 less than the other two. I also liked the dealer the best and they seemed the most helpful at trying to sell my old.

Would love to hear your experience. Have people been happy with a 250 on a Seafarer? Do I need to (gulp) think about a 300?

 

[SoLucky]

Watching this thread.

I can't help you out since I also have a 200 HPDI on my 228, but I am very interested in the same 3 repower options as I will replace my engine in a year or two. The Mercury V8 intrigues me as it is the lightest of the 250 HP options and with V8 torque it should perform really well. Yamaha's, as we all know, are legendary for their long and reliable service life... the biggest thing I wonder about with the Mercury is will it be of similar quality -- I would love to hear what Mercury owners have to say especially if they have also owned a Yamaha in the past.

 

[Pescadote]

I have also been a fairly biased Yamaha owner (I've had 3 of them), but my brother has had a Mercury 115 (got it new) for the last three years and he loves it. I've driven the boat and it is really nice. Can't say the same for his Mercury kicker, I hate the throttle shift thing.

Mercury also has the nice feature of a lid on the top of the cowling that you can flip up to check oil level.

 

[Don Davis]

I have a 2012 Suzuki DF250 on my 1999 Seafarer and it’s a great engine, lots of power And mid range torque. I had Yamahas for over 20 years with zero issues but the new to me Suzuki’s has been awesome in the 2 years that I have owned them. The 9.9 is EFI so very easy starting as compared to my old Yamaha T9.9 that had a carburetor.

 

[wrxhoon]

You get what you pay for in most cases.

Zuk , 3.6 lt , smallest cap and 55 degree V6, the heaviest of the trio and she has offset driveshaft so you can use bigger pitch prop, lowest torque and the smallest alternator at 54 amp.

Yamaha is 4.2 lts, more torque especially at lower RPM, pity manufacturers don't specify torque on their outboards . 70 amp alternator , 60 degree V6 not ideal but better than 55 degrees, lighter than Zuk.

Merc 4.6 ltrs , bigger displacement again and the lightest of the three. Biggest alt at 85 amp, 64 degree V8 much better balanced engine.

My choice out of them would be Mercury unless I wanted the helm master control , then I would go for Yamaha. Zuk would be my last choice if I could afford the other two. keep in mind your boat wasn't designed for the heavier 4 st engines . Merc is not much heavier than the Yam 2 strokes your boat was designed for.
This is not to say the Zuk is not a good engine but for me the other two are worth the extra $$$ but if you have a close by Zuk dealer and you have to drive some distance for the others that could make you decide in favour of the Zuk. Availability could be another factor.

For the record I have a 4.2 lt 250 Yam at the back of my 228G and I have previously owned Yamaha's and Merc's .

200Hp is not enough HP for my liking especially if you have a hardtop. Your boat should be rated max 250 or 260 hp so I would opt for 250. You may have insurance issues with 300.

 

[Blaugrana]

How much does the Mercury actually weigh? They quote 527 which is for the lightest of the 250 and I assume that is for the 20in and not the 25in.

 

[luckydude]

First season with my 1996 Seafarer 228, and I am a little underwhelmed with my 200 HPDI Yamaha, so I'm thinking of a repower. I know my transom is sound because I had to redo that. I also have a T8 kicker hanging on the back, so weight is a concern for me. I am looking at 250 HP Yamaha, Suzuki, and Mercury. It's been hard going from a four stroke back to a 2 stroke.

Pros and Cons for each that I can think of:

Yamaha: I have always had Yammies so that's what I know - weight is around 550 lbs. Same price as Merc.

Mercury: Newer V8 Technology - the lightest at 527 lbs. Same price as Yamaha

Suzuki: Heaviest at a shade over 600 lbs, but also the lightest on the wallet at $4,000 less than the other two. I also liked the dealer the best and they seemed the most helpful at trying to sell my old.

Would love to hear your experience. Have people been happy with a 250 on a Seafarer? Do I need to (gulp) think about a 300?

I have a 2020 228 with a 250 Yamaha. The 250 works fine but if I were doing it all over again I'd look at a 300. The 250 struggles a little to get on plane when the ocean is lumpy. It gets there, it just isn't as fast as it is in a nice ocean. So 300 _might_ be better if it has more grunt. I've had someone tell me it wouldn't be any better, it is only better at top speed. If that is true, 250 is fine, the top speeds are 47mph vs 50mph. Maybe someone cares about that, I don't.

I'd be a little concerned about the extra 50 pounds of the Suzuki but I like Suzuki engines, I have a Suzuki kicker and it's awesome. I think the thing you'd notice the most, if your boat is like mine where the scuppers drain to the outside of the boat, that extra weight is going to be more likely to let water back into the boat when you have 1-2 people standing at the rear of the boat. I think you could counter that by putting some weight in the front of the cuddy. Sort of hacky but I think it would work.

Edit because I thought of something: If you go with a Yamaha then I'd go digital for two reasons. The display is a 7 inch Garmin with an engine app on it. It's really well done, you can run the engine app and it has RPM, GPM, life time fuel used, life time miles, life time hours, etc. All the stuff you want and then some. But if you swipe up, hit home, you are on the Garmin home page and you can pick sonar, radar, charts, etc. So lets say you pick charts and go to Nav Charts. The most useful engine data is in a 3/4" column down the right side of the chart screen. It's like a split screen with charts taking 90% of the screen and engine data taking 10%. It's really well thought out and kudos to Garmin or Yamaha, whoever came up with the design, it could have been a dedicated display for engine data, but instead they give you a backup display for charts/sonar/radar/etc with the most needed engine data still there.

The other reason to go digital is the throttle doesn't have cables, it just sends a signal down electrical wires. So there is no flat spot near neutral, when you move the throttle, the RPMs change. It's not a huge deal but I definitely notice the difference when I go back to a boat with cables.

I don't know if the modern Suzuki/Merc engines have digital. If they do, and if they did as good a job as Yamaha/Garmin did, then I'd lean towards the Merc. Perhaps after waiting a year or two to see if they have to shake out problems. If you want, I can post pictures of the 7 inch Garmin in engine mode, in charts mode, so you can see how it looks. I really like it.

 

[Ky Grady]

Max HP for the '96 Seafarer was 280. That would have me looking at the 250 Ya-Merc-uki as a repower option. The 300 would be out due to insurance concerns of being overpowered than the rating of the boat. I'm waiting on a 4.2 F250 FBW. I have all my controls, wires, gauges for the FBW swap. I went with the tried and true, round gauges for a direct replacement for what I currently have with my 3.3 F225. I had heard from a couple of dealers that the spiffy square 7" has had issues in the past, so I went with the round double gauge setup.

Biggest factor would be, who will provide service and parts down the road? Yamaha is pretty much everywhere I go, as is Mercury, as far as inland lake areas. Suzuki, couldn't tell you where a dealer is around me.

For me,,, Yamaha first, Mercury second, Suzuki last.

 

[luckydude]

I had heard from a couple of dealers that the spiffy square 7" has had issues in the past, so I went with the round double gauge setup.

Huh, I have not heard that. What issues? I've had mine for over a year and it has been fine.

 

[Ky Grady]

It was electrical. Non connection, spotty connection, loss of communication with the unit, it was older units that have been out for awhile. Maybe you got lucky, dude,,, and have a good one. Just didn't want to deal with a possible issue down the road.

 

[luckydude]

It was electrical. Non connection, spotty connection, loss of communication with the unit, it was older units that have been out for awhile. Maybe you got lucky, dude,,, and have a good one. Just didn't want to deal with a possible issue down the road.

Ah, got ya. I have a 942 (943?) in port whatever-you-call-the-upper-storage that acts like that. Works in my driveway, doesn't work on the ocean. Useful (not).

 

[wrxhoon]

My old boat had a max HP 260, looks like GW varied that over the years . from 2012 onwards they are all 300 hp as far as I know.
I have the 7"and I haven't had any problems with it ( 2013 4.2Lt 250 HP engine DTS) . I think I prefer the twin gauges as well. I wish Yamaha included a water pressure gauge like Merc does. Mercs also have better water pumps, much easier to run on muffs as well, no need to tape the pick up either.
Besides all that If I was buying a new O/B now I would probably opt for a Yam 300 just to get the helm master control. I won't be re-powering my boat anytime soon . Even if I wanted to re-power I wouldn't be able to buy a new engine

 

[Pescadote]

I'm already pushing it with a repower cost wise, and going to fly by wire adds a pretty considerable amount to the total. So, think I am going to stick with mechanical.

Right now, I think I have it narrowed down to Yamaha and Mercury, with the Merc in the lead by a little. V8 with less weight would be a good thing, I think. As far as parts and service, all three are about the same with dealerships in the Portland, OR area which is only about 45 minutes away from me.

Yamaha could get their hands on one right now and the Merc guy will check with his manager on Monday, but is not overly optimistic about getting one real soon. I appreciate the replies!!!

 

[Ky Grady]

I'd be leary of Yamaha saying they can get their hands on one right now. I've been waiting on a 4.2 F250 FBW going on a year, here in a month or two. I check with my dealer on a regular basis and still no concrete ETA set yet. Manufacturers are getting them, but repower market is lagging behind. Maybe mechanical F250 availability is better, but I doubt it. I would love to get the call any day, telling me that the motor has arrived, but I'm sure I'm still a few months out. Luckily mine is not a have to thing, F225 still running good, mine is a want to thing, so I can wait it out.

 

[luckydude]

Seems like Yammie not shipping for repowers (per Ky) and Mercury looks like it has been out for about 3 years (and you can get them), yeah, lean towards Merc.

I've told this story a bunch of times, but when I was shopping for my boat, I talked to a local 6 pack captain. He had the same block as my 250HP Yamaha, pretty much same everything. He had *7000* hours on it! It worked fine, he was repowering because, 7000 hours, but it was in such good shape he was selling it for $5000.

His trick? Flush it in fresh water every single time he used it. And he taught me to leave it there for 10-15 minutes so the thermostat opens up and you are flushing the whole thing (I believe that with the thermostat closed you are cooling only the lower unit, is that right?)

Flush, do the scheduled services, I think that Merc should last you a lifetime.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I’ve not owned a 228 before, nor have I owned a 4 stroke Suzuki, Yamaha or Mercury. That being said, I do have a couple of thoughts on the matter… I personally am looking for a 1998 and newer GW 228 seafarer and have been for almost a year now. It seems like most of which come with a 225-250 hp outboard, although I’ve seen some with less hp like a 200, and some even have a 300 hp outboard, even though 250 was the max for most of those years. Anyway, some clarification on the above posts… the Yamaha 250 has a dry weight of 562lbs but that’s with the mechanical controls. If you go with the digital then the weight increases up to 611lbs dry weight for the 25” shaft. The Mercury 250 weight you mentioned of 527lbs is the dry weight for the smaller 20” shaft 250 outboard. I’m not sure what the dry weight would be for the 25” shaft version but that being said, even if it’s 550lbs total, I wouldn’t not go with the Suzuki just because it’s 50lbs or so more.

Second… I think the Yamaha and Mercury are going to be considerably more than only $4k over the price of the Suzuki. I’ve seen the Suzuki 250’s sell for as low as $15k whereas the Yamaha and Mercury both msrp for over $25k, and even closer to $30k, depending on the model. Lastly, I like that Suzuki offers a better warranty than the other two at 5 years vs only 3 years with the Yamaha and Mercury. If I ever personally have to re-power I'd most likely go with a Suzuki. My buddy has a Suzuki 140 on his Wooldridge as well as an EFI 9.9 and loves them. He bought the boat from Wooldridge boats in Seattle and Grant, the owner, recommends Suzuki on all of the boats that he sells. That's reason enough to make me want to give Suzuki a try.

 

[luckydude]

Mustang, I'm no expert but I think the weight of the 228 has increased over the years. Earlier years had wood stringers, I've been told that my 2020 has no wood so it will last longer but is heavier. For my year, 250 is required, 300 is probably better.

I'm really confused, not arguing that I know, just confused, why would a digital engine weigh more? 49 pounds more? I am an engineer so I'm just trying to figure it out, cables vs wires, gonna be a few pounds less for digital. Digital has to have some servo / motor that does what the wires tell it to do. I could imagine that is a few pounds. So a wash. Do you have some specs that show the same shaft digital is 40+ pounds more?

On price, what I've seen for Yamaha 250 somewhere around $20K installed. I'll admit I haven't priced it recently so maybe it has changed, I'm not trying to argue, just trying to learn. I was pricing these back on my first boat, $20K was high. Has the pandemic just made everything more?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

No worries luckydude and I'm definitely not trying to argue either... just having a conversation. In terms of weight.... the earlier 1998 GW 228 Seafarer per the GW website says it weighs 3000lbs without the motor and the max recommended hp is 250. In the year 2000 the weight of the 228 goes up to 3350lbs but they still have a max horsepower rating of 250 hp. In 2003 they then went up to a weight of 3510lbs but still kept the same max horsepower rating of 250hp. It wasn't until 2011 where the recommended hp rating went up to 300 hp, yet the weight of the 228 still shows for even a 2016 228 at 3510lbs. I tried looking up 228's that are newer than a 2016 on the GW website but for some reason they don't pull up. I'm not sure if they have to be ordered or what the deal is? Anyway, I'm not sure what changed the weight from 3000lbs in 1998 to 3350lbs in 2000 to finally 3510lbs from 2003 and on... I know that they increased the fuel tank size from 92 gallons to 114 gallons and think that took place between 2008 and 2009 but even with the increased fuel tank size they still show the weight to be the same without the motor on it. I always thought and/or thought I heard somewhere that the late 1990's/early 2000's GW 228's had the lower 250hp rating because that was right around when a lot of boat manufacturers starting switching over from lighter weight 2 stroke motors to considerably heavier 4 stroke motors. And I'm not sure that the 228 GW stern was designed for the amount of weight that a 300hp 4 stroke motor would add. Although I could be wrong about that. In terms of the added weight of the digital controls, I read that on the Yamaha website and will attach the link below. I'm not sure why it would add 50lbs either, that's just what their claim is. If you go to the Yamaha website and scroll halfway down, select 250 hp outboard motors and then click on "show more" in the engine comparison area, if you scroll down you'll see...

Dry Weight with built-in DES	25" shaft 277 kg (611 lbs), 30" shaft 283 kg (624 lbs), 35" shaft 288 kg (635 lbs)
Dry Weight without built-in DES	25" shaft 255 kg (562 lbs), 30" shaft 261 kg (575 lbs), 35" shaft 265 kg (588 lbs)

Lastly, in terms of price. If you do a Google search for "Yamaha 250 outboard price" it'll pop up with a link on their site for prices of all outboards they have for sale effective as of July 2020. Now I'm sure that's probably an MSRP type of thing and pricing varies from dealer to dealer and you could probably get it cheaper elsewhere. That being said, the cheapest 250hp Yamaha outboard in a 25" shaft length is $24,370. Now of course, pricing is going to be different from dealer to dealer and it could be a couple grand more or a couple grand less.

300-225 HP V6 4.2L Outboard Motors - Yamaha Outboards

The V6 4.2L Yamaha outboard has a range of horsepower: 300HP, 250HP or 225HP. It is designed for smarter, lighter and faster offshore power for your boat.

yamahaoutboards.com

https://yamahaoutboards.com/getattachment/Home/Owner-Resources/All/FAQ/FAQ/FAQ_Listing/Owner-Resources/What-if-I-want-the-newest-engine-or-I-want-an-outb/20181_PY21-CONSUMER-PRICE-LIST-EFF-July-1-2020-FINAL-WEB.pdf.aspx?lang=en-US

 

[doug228]

Thats with the new electric steering system. If you get the non electric steering you will gain most of that weight back with a hydraulic set up.

These boats weigh just over 5000lbs with a hard top, fuel and outboard on them...gradys numbers are awful.

The 250/300s weigh the same now, there was a brief run of a 300 V8 engine..but i dont think it lasted long.

They changed he pod up at some point to support the heavier 4 strokes. Its a bit longer and has an intgrated swim platform that helps stiffen the transom. For the extra horsepower of a 300.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Indeed. My point was that I wouldn't count out Suzuki only because of the fact that their motor weighs 50lbs or so more than the competition. If it was a difference of 100lbs or more then yes, I'd maybe lean towards one of the other brands of motors. Also, if the boat weighs over 5,000lbs, I'm not sure there would be a noticeable difference with an extra 50lbs in the rear of the boat. Not trying to argue, I've not owned a GW before, just my thoughts on the matter.