265 Express/Suzuki DF200APXW2

[Toothpick 10]

Hey SkunkBoat, what were your numbers with your old motors and what props were you using?

 

[bac0701]

they have that lean burn to from what I remember reading. kicks in at cruise something like that. looks awesome

 

[SkunkBoat]

Hey SkunkBoat, what were your numbers with your old motors and what props were you using?

They had 3 x 15.25 x19 (19M stamp) I think a lot of guys had 3x15.25x17 props.
Didn't really get enough top end rpm. I would get to ~45mph@5200 rpm 0.6 mpg I never stayed up there and played around with trim because above 40mph the the 265 is squirrely
I've read the range for WOT for 225HP OX66 is 4500-5500

It cruised at 33mph @4300 30 mph @~4000rpm sipping gas at 1 mpg...sometimes 1.1mpg when things were just right!!!!

 

[SkunkBoat]

they have that lean burn to from what I remember reading. kicks in at cruise something like that. looks awesome

these were short runs in the river. I think on a long haul to the canyon they will settle in with pretty fantastic mpg.
I'll nearly double my range.

 

[Sibs]

I’d be curious to see picture of steering ram hitting when trimmed up when you get a chance

 

[SkunkBoat]

I’d be curious to see picture of steering ram hitting when trimmed up when you get a chance

Motor needed to be mounted low. This is the steering off the Yamaha.

 

[Sibs]

I wonder if there is an alternative steering arrangements that would allow engines to tilt fully?

 

[bac0701]

looks awesome man I'm jealous.

 

[SkunkBoat]

I wonder if there is an alternative steering arrangements that would allow engines to tilt fully?

I've been looking on Seastar site and they all use the same brackets. If anyone knows of different mounting brackets please share.

Problem is a combination of motor mounted low and the double thick transom. If it was up two holes it would probably clear.

 

[GWL139]

Is it the ram hitting or the tie bar? Move the tie bar to the top of the brackets if that's the case...

 

[SkunkBoat]

Is it the ram hitting or the tie bar? Move the tie bar to the top of the brackets if that's the case...

the ram hits.

 

[Summertop511]

Oh that bang plate makes me cringe. Motor bolted tight to it make it warp and twist and allowing water right into your transom. I would call sea star and tell them what you got going on. They make different brackets and arms to accommodate most setups. I’m sure your not the only boat with a thick transom mounted low for the deep v.

 

[SkunkBoat]

don't get me started...calling it a "bang plate" makes me cringe. Its just cheap trim to cover an ugly seam.
"Bang Plate" is what the marketing department came up with to make it sound like its a good thing to be there...
If I had a summer with motors off to glass it over I would...but aside from some black mold that you might see in the picture, it is in pretty good shape. It is well sealed.

I researched the Seastar cylinders and it appears that Yamaha 2 stroke 225s and Suzuki 200 4 cylinder/4 stroke (DF200AP) call for the same HC5345-3 and same tie bar.

I haven't looked at the number on it but I assume the Suzuki installer did.

I can't help but wonder what a HC5358-3 looks like though.
Also, it seems to me if the cylinder mounted on top of the "tiller" arm instead of under it, it would raise up a lot more.. I just don't know if that is possible to do without a different bracket.
I'm going to talk to the Suzuki guy because he is doing another 265 express with DF200s right now.

I wrote another check and took possession today. They run great. Quiet. No blue smoke. Sip gas.
I adjusted the port tilt cutout so now I can raise the port motor all the way out of the water.

So right now I'm very happy about everything with the new motors but the Starboard motor touching water at the dock.

 

[Summertop511]

O man that’s gotta drive you nuts. One motor out and the other in. There has to be a solution. Other then 30” shaft motors.........

only thing I can think of why they call it a bang plate is when they used to put outboards on and off back in the day before outboards were over 50 hp. Yeah I was gonna glass it but then I noticed when you bolt the motorsback on it squeezes the glass and would crack it. If that didn’t crack it then slight movement would crack it and let water in. I felt 5200 was a more forgiving sealant and could put it on with the motor still on. With the plate off you can see the wood. It’s right there not sealed. Horrible. Both my 05 seafarer and my fathers 07 adventure were the same way.

also I would call sea star. They have great helpful customer service and probably have an answer for your situation and like you said probably involves moving the ram on top of the steering arm and longer L brackets on the end.

 

[TUNAHUNTER197]

[QUOTE="SkunkBoat, post: 186056, member: 22867"
Also, it seems to me if the cylinder mounted on top of the "tiller" arm instead of under it, it would raise up a lot more.. I just don't know if that is possible to do without a different bracket.
I'm going to talk to the Suzuki guy because he is doing another 265 express with DF200s right now.[/QUOTE]

I know not an apples to apples comparison but on my 265 the HPDI tie bar (tiller arm) is mounted on top of the bracket as yours looks to be mounted underneath. I have the same ram and bracket. Not sure if that is an easy fix for you or not. Good luck and glad you see your enjoying the new girls!

 

[SkunkBoat]

OK, researched some Seastar cylinder info...outcome was inconclusive...

Emailed Seastar support. They responded fairly quickly with a chart that contradicts the chart that I posted.
It shows DF200A uses HC5358-3 mounted under the tiller arm with the HO6001 tie bar. But the Single install shows a HC5345-3 mounted over the tiller arm.

I found the chart he emailed me in a newer rev of the Installation Guide (rev G). The Hydraulic Steering Selection Guide says HC5345-3 with a HO6001 tie bar.

A big wrinkle here is that I do not have a Seastar brand Tie Bar. The tech support guy noted that it wasn't an HO6001(I sent a picture)
He did say "The HC5345-3 is designed to fit on top of the tiller arm.The cylinder you require is the HC5358-3.You are also using some sort of after market tiebar and I am unsure if the HC5358-3 will work with your set up.I have attached some info for you."

So basically, I have to wing it.
An HC5358-3 is an HC5345-3 with the "pivot plate" inverted. This causes the cylinder to sit higher (thats what I want).

I have an HC5345-3..mounted under the tiller arm.
I can try moving it to the top of the tiller arm. (this may cause interference with the cable conduit).
I can try removing the pivot plate from the cylinder and inverting it and then mounting it to the bottom of the tiller arm.
If I do these things the tie bar might not mount without interference. I might need to get an HO6001 Seastar tie bar.

Here is a pic of a HC5345-3 mounted on top of the tiller arm. For clarification, the "tiller arm" is part of the motor that turns the motor. In the picture it is white and just above the second "S" in SeaStar
The "Pivot Plate" mounts to the tiller arm.


here is a HC5358-3. Notice the center bracket ("Pivot Plate") is flipped vs the HC5345-3

 

[Summertop511]

Yeah I see it. It’s flipped so it sits on top of the tiller arm. Yeah idk, I would still call and get a person and a name to tell you what you need and if it’s not right call them and tell them you are sending it back. I had problems before with a wobble tilt wheel and they were great. Like I said before. You can’t be the only person with a Suzuki mounted at that height with hydraulic steering. If that was the case no1 would use Suzuki on a strong thick transom.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Yeah I see it. It’s flipped so it sits on top of the tiller arm. Yeah idk, I would still call and get a person and a name to tell you what you need and if it’s not right call them and tell them you are sending it back. I had problems before with a wobble tilt wheel and they were great. Like I said before. You can’t be the only person with a Suzuki mounted at that height with hydraulic steering. If that was the case no1 would use Suzuki on a strong thick transom.

This is the steering from my Yamahas. There's no "sending back" .
The tie bar and tie bar bracket are not Seastar.The tie bar brackets are mounted on top of the tiller arm.
Some guys have noticed that the tie bar is under the tie bar bracket. It was on top on the yamaha. The tie bar is not hitting anything. I actually think its better underneath the brackets.

The way these work is that the "pivot plate" is loosely connected to the tiller arm. The plate "PIVOTS" as the cylinder moves left & right.
The tie bar bracket is firmly mounted to the tiller and moves like an extension of the tiller arm.

I don't think its possible to mount both the tie bar bracket and the pivot plate on the top. Thats why the Suzuki guy mounted the HC5345-3 under the tiller.

A Seastar tie bar connects to the side of the cylinder and moves with it. I think I need a HO6001 tie bar kit before I can move the cylinder to the top.

....or.... maybe I can convert the HC5345-3 to a HC5358-3 by flipping the pivot plate, then mount it under the tiller. That would gain some height. enough? I don't know.

For now it all works. I have 16 more hours of running until the 20 hr Service. I'll plan it all out to make changes then.

 

[PrinceofThieves]

Just saw this recent development. The HC5358-3 is what i had on the 265 with zukes. You will get the height you need, However, those motors will probably never come fully out of the water, the corner of the lower unit, up to the top of the water intake strainer will sit in the water. What I did on both the 265 and 330 is, lightly scuff the area that will remain in the water and spray it with the Trilux antifouling white spray paint - safe on the lower. You can do that real quick when they haul you for the 20hr. Have a look at the tie bar setup as well below.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Just saw this recent development. The HC5358-3 is what i had on the 265 with zukes. You will get the height you need, However, those motors will probably never come fully out of the water, the corner of the lower unit, up to the top of the water intake strainer will sit in the water. What I did on both the 265 and 330 is, lightly scuff the area that will remain in the water and spray it with the Trilux antifouling white spray paint - safe on the lower. You can do that real quick when they haul you for the 20hr. Have a look at the tie bar setup as well below.

Thanks!

That is the setup that Seastar Support emailed to me. HC5358-3 mounted under tiller with HO6001tie bar. That is in Installation Guide Rev G
I'm surprised you didn't get out of the water. I reset my port motor tilt cutout switch and I get it clean out of the water..
That tells me the only thing stopping the starboard motor from getting out is the cylinder clearance.
You had the 250s right? Maybe the weight makes you lower? Maybe you had cowling or cable clearance stopping it?

The 2019 Seastar Hydraulic Steering Selection Guide calls for HC5345-3 and HO6001 for twins.
In some places they call for HC5358-3 for a single and other places they call for a HC5345-3.
So they don't really know either!!!

I think the only thing to do is experiment. I'm not against spending $400 on a new tie bar if it gets the motor out of the water.
If its gonna be wet anyways, then why spend the money?
Tilewave is getting the same motors on the same hull at the same place right now. He had different tie bar. We're going to get them to look at it closer.
If they find a better way with his, I'll change mine at the 20 Hr service.

Here is mine. I Have the HC5345 mounted below. Clearly the cylinder is almost an inch lower because of the pivot plate curling down instead of up.