Looking for as many opinions as possible regarding 2stroke vs 4 stroke. Would be twins on 282 sailfish. Power, consumption, reliability, and maintenance issues.
2stroke vs 4stroke
- Thread starter rstep7243
- Start date
I had a Sailfish (2001) with twin 225 - 2 strokes, and now own a boat with 250 - 4 strokes. What I found with the 2 strokes were that they are nearly bulletproof (great history of being very reliable), and were nearly as efficient with gas. The inefficiency was that you are burning oil as well. They are great motors, but "out of fashion." They are louder (but not too much underway, only at slow speeds and idle), smoke, and will have lower re-sale/make the sale of your boat more difficult. Great motors to use, but not to sell...
I went with 200 hp HPDI direct injected. I considered the 4 strokes but they were to heavy for the 272 and the HPDI motors get great mpg vs the 4 stroke motors. Also, the cost of the 4 strokes was very much higher.
I have a 2006 282 with twin 250 four strokes. Just got the boat this year and have only put 70 hours on it thus far with a total of 180 hours on them. Boat runs great is fast and efficient and havent had any issues with the motors at all.
I have a 283 with twin 250 four strokes. I have owned numerous 2 strokes from 9 HP to 225 HP but this is my first experience with 4's.
I recognize all arguments for and against 4 strokes, including cost of engines, cost of adding oil at every fill-up, noise, smoke, effeciency, maintenance, etc, etc. All arguments are true.
If I have the money for a 4 stroke, I'll never own a 2 stroke again. If I cannot afford a 4, I'll buy a 2 or a pair of paddles, if I have to, but I'm going to get on the water one way or the other.
I recognize all arguments for and against 4 strokes, including cost of engines, cost of adding oil at every fill-up, noise, smoke, effeciency, maintenance, etc, etc. All arguments are true.
If I have the money for a 4 stroke, I'll never own a 2 stroke again. If I cannot afford a 4, I'll buy a 2 or a pair of paddles, if I have to, but I'm going to get on the water one way or the other.
Go with Etecs, with the oil set at xd100. What you will spend on the maint. of those 4 strokes, will buy alot of oil.
Gman25
GreatGrady Captain
Is xd100 a 100 to 1 fuel-oil ratio? Not sure what you mean by maintance cost...I've had my F250's about 4 years now and there really is no more maintance with a 4 stroke then with a 2 stroke.The Difference is?exudedude said:
4 stroke:
-Change oil every 100 hrs(I do mine every 50 hrs because its so easy and better for the engine).
-Change plugs EVERY OTHER YEAR....Because the engines burn clean with on oil to fowl the plugs
-Change lower unit oil every year
-Change T-stats every other year.
-Internal zincs every other year(about 1 hr/engine)
-water pump every other year
2 stroke:
-Add oil($$$)most every other time you head out. If you plan on running offshore add oil more often and maybe bring some with you.
-Change plugs every year.
-Change lower unit oil every year
-change T-stats every other year
-water pump every other year
Its about $100 in oil(3 gal worth) plus $25 for an oil filter every 100 hours for the 4 stroke(about 3/4 or more of the season for most)
How often do you have to add oil at about $45/gal for the 2 stroke?
'05 300 Marlin w/F250's
You are lucky that you are handy, many are not and get soaked by dealers. I don't know what a 10 or 20 hr servicing cost, but there are plenty of folks here in Tampa complaining about $800.00 to $1000.00 for a 100 hr service. I put well over 700 hrs on my boat last year
My engine is brand new, as a matter of fact my boat is being delivered today. My neighbor sold me on the Etec, he has a 250 on a older cobia WA he burns 3/4 gallon of oil for every 65 gallons of fuel.
Plus, I have no service required for 3 yrs. Plus a 5yr warranty at no extra cost. Plus for what all of my local dealer wanted for a new Yamaha in the crate only, I got a 2011 Etec installed, with prop service and I_Command gauges with the fuel management. So now I am way ahead of the game.
Also I buy the oil in bulk at $31.00, I hold 3 gallons and if I get the same as my neighbor it will be less than 3 gallons for a full fill up on my Gulfstream
My engine is brand new, as a matter of fact my boat is being delivered today. My neighbor sold me on the Etec, he has a 250 on a older cobia WA he burns 3/4 gallon of oil for every 65 gallons of fuel.
Plus, I have no service required for 3 yrs. Plus a 5yr warranty at no extra cost. Plus for what all of my local dealer wanted for a new Yamaha in the crate only, I got a 2011 Etec installed, with prop service and I_Command gauges with the fuel management. So now I am way ahead of the game.
Also I buy the oil in bulk at $31.00, I hold 3 gallons and if I get the same as my neighbor it will be less than 3 gallons for a full fill up on my Gulfstream
Gman25
GreatGrady Captain
Im not sure what else has to be done at 100 hrs. Oil change, fuel filters, lower unit oil change...But there are people who just hand over the keys and say "call me when its done".. and then write the check. If I can do it, im gonna do it myself which does save me a boat load of money and most of it isnt rocket science. :wink:
Watch out E-TEC guy there is a reason why they are "giving them away" and it's not because they are SOOO GREAT...know people who have E-TECed and have had nothing but problems...Evinrude has become a B-brand and no amount of infomercials is going to change that.
Yeah I don't know either. I also was not ready to be one of the first to try the new Yamaha SHO and the weight of the older models did not make me comfy either. Mine is a 1990 with the notched transom, I did not want to be sitting squatty.
I will also pick Diawa over Shimano any day.
I will also pick Diawa over Shimano any day.
Gman25
GreatGrady Captain
exudedude said:
That is a TOTAL fallacy.
According to this Evinrude dealer "salt water use does require annual greasing of the engine fittings and of the prop shaft." You'll be taking it in for service every year just like with a four stroke. And then you'll hear your dealer say " as long as it's here how about we do ......."
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... years.html
I have a Gulfstream, but I would have done the following with a Sailfish.
I wanted 200 HDPI's for their reputation, weight and overall performance. Folks here said they were the "perfect" power for my 232.
When I purchased the Gulf in 2007, I found Grady was no longer installing 2-strokes on new models.
I wanted the engines factory installed and rigged, so Al, my super-cool salesman at Twin Cities Marine convinced me that 4 strokes were the way to go regardless.
He was correct. My 200 4-strokes have been flawless and an absolute blast to operate. I'm sure the HDPI's would've been good as well, but I would not change anything now or in the future.
I want turn-key reliability when I pay what Grady wanted for a Gulfstream and 4-strokes.
I get it with these 200's.
I wanted 200 HDPI's for their reputation, weight and overall performance. Folks here said they were the "perfect" power for my 232.
When I purchased the Gulf in 2007, I found Grady was no longer installing 2-strokes on new models.
I wanted the engines factory installed and rigged, so Al, my super-cool salesman at Twin Cities Marine convinced me that 4 strokes were the way to go regardless.
He was correct. My 200 4-strokes have been flawless and an absolute blast to operate. I'm sure the HDPI's would've been good as well, but I would not change anything now or in the future.
I want turn-key reliability when I pay what Grady wanted for a Gulfstream and 4-strokes.
I get it with these 200's.
SoutheastFL said:
Actually, what is written on THT is not correct according to my dealer/owner/head mechanic we discussed this as I took possession of the best motor I have ever ran today. Also in my contract is all minor maintenance will be done on my lift as I do not own a trailer. It's all about the deal you make . To the original poster if you want more info on the Etec pm me. The haters are gonna derail your thread. Just be careful of the SHO 4 strokes, they are not proven yet.
There is absolutely no advantage to a 2-stroke over a 4-stroke except initial cost. If all we had 20 years ago was 4-strokes, can you imagine someone “inventing” a 2-stroke to sell to the public? Would noise, smoke and the requirement to add oil at every fill up be turned into an advantage by some marketing guru?
I think the Obama/Gore green team is going to put 2-strokes out of business anyway. Where does the gallon of oil I used to use in my 2-stroke every trip, go? A mechanic once told me that oil is not burned up in a 2-stroke, it is used as a lubricant and dumped into the water through the exhaust. Is this true?
Sometime in the future, the cost of 4-strokes will rise less than the cost of 2-strokes, enough to equal them out. When this happens 2-strokes will join the steam engine.
Evinrude will go to the same happy hunting ground as the Scott-At-Water outboard. Wow, I just dated myself. I’ll bet not two of you can remember that piece of c**p.
I think the Obama/Gore green team is going to put 2-strokes out of business anyway. Where does the gallon of oil I used to use in my 2-stroke every trip, go? A mechanic once told me that oil is not burned up in a 2-stroke, it is used as a lubricant and dumped into the water through the exhaust. Is this true?
Sometime in the future, the cost of 4-strokes will rise less than the cost of 2-strokes, enough to equal them out. When this happens 2-strokes will join the steam engine.
Evinrude will go to the same happy hunting ground as the Scott-At-Water outboard. Wow, I just dated myself. I’ll bet not two of you can remember that piece of c**p.
LUNDINROOF said:
Find a new mechanic, what does he think the smell of a 2 stroke is? Who adds oil at every fill-up?
On some boats the 2 stroke gets better mileage than a 4 stroke, they weigh less (which is very important for older models), have fewer parts to break/fail, they don't "make oil" from the rings not seating properly, and cost quite a bit less which is a big deal for some.
The new HO's look promising but I'm not going to trial the motors for them.
My dealership told me that the 4 strokes never come back for repairs.(Well, probably "almost" never.)
So..
1.) if their more reliable
2.) If their eventually going by the wayside, then trying to resell the boat would become a concern
3.)The economy is the same or better
These seem strong arguments for 4-strokes to me.
I have no comment on the E-Tec, as I've had no personal experience with one. Time will tell on that scenario. I DO know that I will never have anything but a Yamaha on my boat. They are nothing short of incredible and I love them.
Lundinroof..Scott At Waters were a mid-60's outboard weren't they? I remember one or two on aluminum fishing jonboats when I used to fish with my Dad as a kid.
So..
1.) if their more reliable
2.) If their eventually going by the wayside, then trying to resell the boat would become a concern
3.)The economy is the same or better
These seem strong arguments for 4-strokes to me.
I have no comment on the E-Tec, as I've had no personal experience with one. Time will tell on that scenario. I DO know that I will never have anything but a Yamaha on my boat. They are nothing short of incredible and I love them.
Lundinroof..Scott At Waters were a mid-60's outboard weren't they? I remember one or two on aluminum fishing jonboats when I used to fish with my Dad as a kid.
MajicBill:
That was my experience with them, Dad trying to pull a starter rope on a 33 HP Scott-at-water. That's where I learned the color in my vocabulary.
BTW, we replaced this motor with the first electric start V-4, 50 HP Evinrude sold in Louisiana.
I thought the Mercury Optimax was the best motor made, until I got my new boat with the 4-stroke Yamaha's. Wouldn't trade them for anything else on the market, unless it was triple 300's on a Grady 33.
Ed
That was my experience with them, Dad trying to pull a starter rope on a 33 HP Scott-at-water. That's where I learned the color in my vocabulary.
BTW, we replaced this motor with the first electric start V-4, 50 HP Evinrude sold in Louisiana.
I thought the Mercury Optimax was the best motor made, until I got my new boat with the 4-stroke Yamaha's. Wouldn't trade them for anything else on the market, unless it was triple 300's on a Grady 33.
Ed