2stroke vs 4stroke

[SoutheastFL]

Plus, I have no service required for 3 yrs.

That is a TOTAL fallacy.

According to this Evinrude dealer "salt water use does require annual greasing of the engine fittings and of the prop shaft." You'll be taking it in for service every year just like with a four stroke. And then you'll hear your dealer say " as long as it's here how about we do ......."

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... years.html

Actually, what is written on THT is not correct according to my dealer/owner/head mechanic we discussed this as I took possession of the best motor I have ever ran today. Also in my contract is all minor maintenance will be done on my lift as I do not own a trailer. It's all about the deal you make . To the original poster if you want more info on the Etec pm me. The haters are gonna derail your thread. Just be careful of the SHO 4 strokes, they are not proven yet.

As this CURRENT GW Dealer, and former Evinrude dealer so correctly put it, Post # 51:

"I took on E-Tech, agreed to buy 2,500 HP worth of motors the first year to jump to 5,000 the next. When I recieved the manuals, dealer info and everything the public, "you" will never see, I was suprised to find, they don't "REQUIRE" maintenece or service to maintain your warranty, but, get this, there were 15+ "RECOMMENDED" services in the first 100 hours."

"The VERY first 90hp we sold did not make it across the 10 acre lake-new powerhead sent by BRP took 3 weeks. Same customer and my tech went back out and BAM! Second motor we sold, 150HP, made it 34 hours and POW! He recieved his 2nd, 3rd, and forth powerhead and when that blew, we traded him to a Yamaha F-150 and never heard from him again."

"I still tried to have faith, then a pair of 115's on a 23' blew his port motor at 60 hours. New powerhead from BRP took 2 weeks, first trip out, his starboard motor blew. New powerhead from BRP took 3 weeks. He refused the second PH and we traded him to a pair of YAMAHA F-115's. Never heard a complaint from him again. He has over 700 hours on those Yammies and still truckin."

"Despite E-Tech offering us huge discounts on bulk orders, we respecfully declined and my CSI for service and engines came back up to 95-98% satified completely as compared to the 68-70% we/he held when we sold E-Techs."

"Grady KNOWS, there is no better motor out there for customer satisfaction, and customer satisfaction is what Grady White is all about. Did I mention I am A Grady White Dealer!"


http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ons-3.html


Posted by the same ex-Evinrude Dealer ( Post # 11 )

"if EVERY other manufacturer requires ( annual servicing ) and E-Tech dosen't, do you actually believe they have some space age materials that the rest just can't get? If it was truely the cats meow, wouldn't EVERY other manufacturer go the same route? After 7 + years of selling no one has even attempted to suggest "no maintenance for three years" They don't b/c it's a farce. Retail hype and smoke n mirrors."

"Theres a reason BRP has been trying to sell the company since the 2nd year in the outboard business. They are loosing their rear ends on warranty claims. Outboard division is STILL for sale! Amazing that NO-One wants to buy it. Imagine that. Best motor in the business and NO-ONE want's it! Hummmmmm. It's a dying technology. "

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... years.html

 

[Lefty]

Anyone remember the old Bearcat fourstrokes? My dad had one back in the seventies - ran like a champ. I run dual Yamaha OX66 225's now and I really like them - they just love to run and run hard and they are durable. Problem is, compared to a four stroke, they don't really like to just putter around. Plus, these things are thirsty - the fuel injection system on them is great, but these are not direct injected like the HDMI's. If I had the dough today, and my two strokes were high hours, I would go four stroke all the way. The money you save initially on 2 strokes will more than likely be negated over time in fuel costs and more importantly in RESALE.

 

[magicalbill]

Yep..
I remember the Bearcats and the Homelites. Close to the same era. I wonder if they had a "Johnson And Evinrude" thing going on where they were identical engines with different cowlings.
I remember the Bearcat 55 and the Homelite 55 and 90 HP models.
If you want to add one more bit of nostalgia, one of my outboard mechanics and close family friend in the 70's told me the Johnson Golden Meteor 100 was the best outboard Johnson ever made. This was a 2-stroke, though.
One more thing about 4-strokes. There at least used to be talk of them being sluggish out of the hole. My twin 200's on my Gulfstream plane it off, no prob. even with full fuel, full everything. (Of course, 400HP on a 23 foot boat doesn't hurt either.)

 

[BobP]

It will be close to a decade of this going on.

Does it ever end ?

 

[Lefty]

BobP - it'll never end - some day we'll all be arguing over what's better - cold fusion or dilithium crystals

 

[BobP]

Actually, that's not what I was referring too.
Only the older timers on GG here will know what I mean.

Since GradyWhite became joined at the hip to Yamaha in the late 90s, forever as it seems will be, Grady sells what Mama Yamaha says to sell, and Yamaha doesn't want to sell 2 strokes to SW users, but have no choice in the FW bass boat area, ironically.

Yamaha has fared well as a partner can' deny it. Of course today entirely different situation than late 90s outboard quality.

It would not surprise me at the NY Boat show this year not to see another F on the larger boats (except the F350 of course) as the F200/225 and perhaps F225 get retired to the SHO. Most certainly the F300 is finished too and it only appeared recently.

So no other motors ever than outboards and Yamaha 4 strokes at any Grady dealer ever, when seeking advise. And salespeople are the same wherever you go, this site too, IMHO.

Some of us research for ourselves and decide what's best in terms of technolgy for given HP for given boat model, trouble history, cost up front and maintenance, and dealer support local, and don't believe what is told to us by salespeople.
I'm one of them but then again who doesn't know that?

And yes, that ETEC looks great on the Grady stern !
I don't care one bit for what anyone else suggests to the contrary !

 

[magicalbill]

The Yamaha-Grady White partnership has given me hundreds of hours of trouble-free boating.
My selling dealer told me the Yamaha 4-strokes were the way to go. I said "ok." I have been happy ever since.
I don't see anything wrong with aligning yourself with and trusting a dealer unless he steers you wrong.
Yamaha, Grady-White and my dealer have not.

That said, there is nothing wrong with independent thinking and research. Everyone should do what makes them feel the best about their purchase. I feel great that Yamaha and Grady White are paired up, so my buck stops there.

 

[LUNDINROOF]

I thnk that the selection of a dealer is as important as the selection of the engine manufacturer. I have had good engines preform great and good engines preform horribly, all due to the skills of the dealer.

 

[lgusto]

My 4 stroke runs great, don't care for 2 stroke noise and smell. I do like the look of the white E-Tecs on a Grady, but a white engine of any brand would look good too.

When calculating total cost of ownership include about $1,650 per engine for 1,000 maintenance on the Yamaha V6 4 strokes.

 

[LUNDINROOF]

What in the world would they do for $1,600/engine? My 20 hour warranty service only cost about $150/engine.

I never had an engine that long, I usually put 100 to 150 hrs./year on them and seldom keep them for 9 or 10 years but $1,600 is a lot of money to put into an engine that has 1000 hours on it. What is the life expectancy of the parts they do not change? Would it not be better to save the $3,200 and repair the engines when they need it?

I guess if you think about it, its only $1.60/hr. Thats a lot less than the oil you add to a 2-stroke.

 

[lgusto]

Agreed, it seems like a ton of money for what turns out to be very little work. And I agree it may be more cost effective to wait for something to break. But, I charter and it seems more responsible to do everything recommended for preventative maintenance.

 

[LUNDINROOF]

Yes, as a charter captain, you cannot afford to be out of commission in the middle of your busy season. If you break down, you not only are out of pocket for the cost of repair but also the lost revenue. I think the guys I charter down here treat their engines better than their wives.

 

[jtsailjt]

What in the world would they do for $1,600/engine? My 20 hour warranty service only cost about $150/engine.

I never had an engine that long, I usually put 100 to 150 hrs./year on them and seldom keep them for 9 or 10 years but $1,600 is a lot of money to put into an engine that has 1000 hours on it. What is the life expectancy of the parts they do not change? Would it not be better to save the $3,200 and repair the engines when they need it?

I guess if you think about it, its only $1.60/hr. Thats a lot less than the oil you add to a 2-stroke.

I haven't figured it out on a per hour basis, but I really don't think that I'm burning anything close to $1.60 worth of oil in my 2 stroke EFI merc. I buy it by the gallon when it's on sale at WalMart and the amount of money spent isn't even a noticeable factor in the overall cost of owning and operating my boat/motor.

2 strokes are thirstier than 4 strokes but the effect on you personally depends on how many hours you run your engine in a season and the answer to which choice is cheaper can vary greatly by individual. In the north, with a short season, and personal use of the boat mostly on weekends, the right choice can be vastly different than a Florida charter boat captain who fills up his fuel tank every day of the year. It doesn't make financial sense to spend an extra $3000 on a motor if you're only going to save $300/year in fuel costs on a motor you'll probably replace in less than 10 years anyway, especially if you will have any additional savings on lower maintenance with the cheaper motor.

For many of us with older boats that were made for much lighter, 20" outboards, the cutdown transom means that if we mounted a modern 20" 4 stroke, the exhaust would be under water, and we'd be sitting so low that we be in danger of literally SINKING from a following sea, and that's something that even the most ardent supporter of 4 strokes would be forced to take into account.

I like 4 strokes for their fuel efficiency (greater range per tankful and less money for fuel) but that's really about the only important issue in their favor for me. I like 2 strokes for their lighter weight, their relative simplicity, their lower cost to buy and maintain. I like the quiet operation of 4 strokes, but my 200EFI isn't very noisy either, or at least it's never anything that I'm conscious of when I'm using it, especially at cruising speeds. But I have a 6hp, 4 stroke kicker that I use for slow speed trolling. It could be argued that maybe I could eliminate my kicker if my main engine was a 4 stroke but I doubt it. I can go as slow as 1 knot using my kicker (and using almost NO fuel), perfect for freshwater trolling, but using my 200hp EFI the slowest I can go is about 3 knots so even if it would run smoothly all day at that speed like a big 4 stroke would, that high minimum speed would be unsatisfactory for how I like to use my boat.

To each their own. I think it's important to realize that there are lots of factors involved in the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke decision and the "correct" answer will never be the same for every boat owner or every boating application.

 

[BobP]

Coventional 2 strokes are thirstier than 4 strokes, andalso thirstier than modern two strokes the same.