89 Gradywhite Re-Power Options

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Diver012

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Hello! :)

I currently have a 99 Seafarer and am looking to repower her. I have been trying to do as much research as possible but wanted to get a non-biased opinion on what fellow enthuiasts would do in my situation...

I currently have a 99 Evinrude Ram Ficht 2 storke 225HP. I am looking at the Mercury Verado 4cyl 200 HP 4 stroke as a replacement. May be to heavy?

According to the specs, the inline 4cyl Verado doesnt way that much more, but after doing a little reading, others are saying because of the hydrolics, it is over 700 lbs...

Just wondered what everyones thoughts were on repower...
Thanks!

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Is the boat an 89 or 99, if an 89 that weight will really be pushing what I would safely add, going from a carbed 225 Evinrude to a 200 HPDI on my 1989 22, my boat sat lower, maybe 1/3-1/2", but I still feel safe, if I added another 100lbs of engine before my crew, I might think again, it would surely be safe, but not how I'd want the boat to sit or feel in the water personally. To me, any open transom boats older then late 90's should refrain from 4 stroke power unless their really is no other option, a rebuild would be a better choice if an option.

If your talking 1999, then here are my taughts.

Going from a 6 cylinder to a 4 cylinder if that is the 200 verado your going with will be a considerable drop in power due to less cylinder's, in rough seas or under heavy load the boat will fall flat on it's face more then likely, or put more strain on that super to produce the power it needs to run how you'd want, a 6 cylinder would give you better power, but will weigh a bit more. Best way to simiulate it is to add the additional weight of the repower in sand bags, but add a little more, the location of the weight ina 4 stroke hangs off the boat more then a 2 stroke typically, not sure why but it does so account for that also. I would not go below 200hp, and a 200hp 4 cylinder 4 stroke would really be pushing it, the 6 cylinder 200 would be good power but might cause weight issues, would be close. I think it also depends where all the other componenets will be located, can they be moved forward a little or will they all likely be under the back well area?

Check with Grady at the factory as to what your boat can handle weight wise, you should be able to handle the weight if i am correct, but not sure how the boat will actually sit, depends what your comfortable with. If you fish in rougher conditions, the extra weight might be more noticable on the drift, if you don't go out in that typically, it may not matter as far as how the boat sits. Do you have plastic nylon thru hulls or are they SS or bronze? If they are plastic nylon and the boat will be sitting lower where they will touch the water, I'd highly advise replacing them as well. From the looks of your picture, it looks like your already at your scuppers, the 4 stroke if going with the 6 cylinder, will likely bring it down as much as half an inch more, only way to really tell is added the weight and then put 2 guys in the back to simulate as if your fishing, also compare it before with 2 guys to get a feel both ways. If you really can, have someone on the dock also take pictures to give you another perspective, those pictures might show you something you might not see or notice from inside the boat.
 
Thanks for your input I really do appreciate it. Im sorry for the typo, it is an 89 22 ft Sea Farer.

Personally, I am so disgusted with the Ram Ficht Evinrude, we have had nothing but issues with that motor since we purchased her 5 yrs ago.

Im my search for a good solid reliable motor, I can see the industry moving towards 4 stroke motors. That being said, The Ram Ficht was new technology, and maybe a little bit ahead of its time. Hence, one of the reasons OMC went under and why im a little nervous regarding 4 strokes... especially the Verado series...

After doing some more reasearch, I am not confident that The Mercury Verado is the correct choice either as I am hearing about DTS throttle control issues, and other problems because of a relativly new techonology being introduced and consumers having to pay the price to have the bugs worked out...

Also considering this is a salt water application and the boat stays docked behind my house in the intercoastal water way year round... I need a rock solid reliable motor.

I am now back to the drawing board and after talking with the service techs at Grady White, who BTW are always more than willing to answer any question I have called in about, and asked their advice on.. plug plug, Thank you Gready White! I am considering Yamaha as a replacement motor..

I think a 4 stroke Yamaha will be a little to heavy for my boat, but maybe a 2 stroke Vmax perhaps? After years of headaches with Ram Ficht, I would rather spend years researhing like this then to just pick up the latest wiz bang thing that is popular.

I really do appreciate any input you, or anyone may have.

Thanks!! :)

Diver
 
If you can find a left over 200 HPDI, it would be a great move. Engine is one of the best Yamaha built and is very reliable. The 250's and 300's had issues, but 200's were super. We love ours and have had no problems, have about 400 hrs on it, but I have buddies with HPDI's with about 1500-1700hrs and still runnign strong. Fuel efficiency is the same, if not better then an F225. Going to a 4 stroke requires an additional 25hp to get the same speeds your used to with a 2 stroke, but going up in hp means more fuel now. Going from our 1989 225 Evinrude to our 200 HPDI we actually saw the same numbers, the HPDI has a lot of power and pep, plenty for that hull and the boat sits well in the water, probably the same as what you have now. I know some dealers have HPDI's left or can get them, problem is finding them. Knowing my 1989 and how it feels in the water, the HPDI is about as much weight as I'd safely add, it is more then the stock engine was, but still feels safe, I've been on the same hull with 4 strokes and was not pleased with how they sit personally, to some they might not care, but I am very picky and cautious. A new Optimax would not be a bad choice either, persoanlly I like the HPDI better, every Opti boat I've been on seems louder then my HPDI, but the Opti's have great power and are also good on fuel. As long as the Opti is the new gen it is a good engine, their first releases had some issues but they are since resolved and it is now a very proven engine as well. Also, E-Tec's are great engines and overall are a good value. Fuel will be good and they have had few issues compared to your ficht. The ficht from day 1 was plagued with issues and Evinrude never realyl resolved them, there were some factory updates that dealers could perform to eliminate some issues, but never all of them, and if owner's waited too long, the wear on the issues was too much that the updates didn't make much difference. Sorry for the bad luck, but I agree 100% having reliable power is very important and reason enough to repower. Our original engine didn't have many hours, about 750 when we repowered, but had issue after issue averaging about $800/season in repiars over the last 3 seasons, and about 2-3 weeks of the season lost. Between that and the huge fuel savings a new engine would provide, repowering was a no brainer. Never looked back since!!
 
The spec for the 200 4cyl Verado is 510#. That's probably for the 20" shaft since both are listed but only 1 weight is listed, so add 20# for the 25" shaft. The 6 cyl is over 650# beast. Where does that almost 200# come from? Power steering is an option but that's not going to put 200# of extra weight on the boat.

Verados use blowers (driven off the crankshaft). There isn't going to be a lag for the power to come. Forced induction motors have a fairly good torque curve compared to a motor making the same power without "help". My concerns are the problems Verados have had and that's a small motor making 200HP. If I ever repower and decide to go 4 stroke, I'll probalby go Verado (hopefully the bugs will be worked out by then). 2 strokes have been the red-headed step-kid compared to the 4 strokes. The 2 stroke motors are quite refined and will require less maintenance and have less things to go wrong. New 2-strokes are nothing like the Fichts that have been a thorn in your side.

It's your boat, pick whatever will make you happy.
 
RE power

While your hesitation with Evirude is understandable, the E-TEC Evinrudes developed by Bombardier are not the same motors as the Ficht. They have reported good reliability, good warranty and low maintenance (no scheduled maintenance for first 300 hours). Another bonus is all your controls will work if they are still in good shape which will save you money. Only thing different will probably be the gauge. I have a friend with the 150 ETEC on a Flats boat and no problems at all.

Not mentioned here and the best four stroke power to weight ratio in the bunch is Suzuki. Have to look up the specs, but I think the 225 V6 Suzuki weighs in just at 520. Its the lightest of all the Four strokes. They use a gear reduction that allows you to swing a bigger prop to help get back some of the two stroke zip, it also allows them to offset the powerhead forward moving some of the weight forward over the transom. Buy during the Gimme Six promotion and you will end up with a Six year warranty to boot (3 year factory plus 3 year factory extended). My brother has a 140 Suzuki now for four years and its been absolutely flawless. For a single engine repower This would be my first choice.

In the money is no object repower, I would install a full floatation twin engine bracket with integral platform (Armstrong D&Dmarine custom) to your open transom. Gives you another 2.5 feet of boat. Repower with a pair of 115 or 140 Suzuki Four Strokes. Since the 115 and the 140 weigh the same, might as well go with the extra HP even if you'll be over the HP rating by a bit.

I added a single engine Stainless Marine Floatation Bracket with Swim platform to my 82 Seafarer and left the transom open intentionally. I never take water over the transom or platform, even in following seas. The amount of room it opens up in the back is nice and accessability in and out of the boat is much improved. On Edit: Your screen name just dawned on me, if your a diver you'll love this set up, that's why I did it.

Anyway there's some more to chew on....

ddog
 
The 225's Zuke, Yami and Honda all weigh close to the same, the Verado is the fat pig. The 175 Zuke is still a 4 cyl and squeaks into places where 200's normally sit. The size of the prop has nothing to do with the 2 stroke "zip", it's from the torque curve of a 2-stroke (you have twice as many cylinders firing per revolution).

The price of Hermco brackets went down this year and they make a great bracket. The bracket is fiberglass which will be less problems down the road.
 
Thanks for everyones input! :)

I looked at the Suzuski and it scared me. The offset shaft with a chain connection just unsettled me. Chains wear out, need adjustment, replaced, ect... maybe im over reacting a little and I should dig a little more.

I priced some Verados locally and it looks like its going to be around $17,500 for the 4 cyl 4 stroke.

I am trying to keep my costs below $15,000, but I do not know if that is possible.

Maybe I should reconsider the Suzuski...

As far as teh Evinrude goes, I have heard mixed results about the E-Techs. The last time we had to be towed in by Sea Tow, the guy had just replaced dual E-Techs with twin Suzuski 4 strokes. He went through 3 power heads before they junked the motor.... Evinrude just scares me to much right now...

I will revisit Suzusk to check on the reliability factor ect..

I will check out Hermco but I think thats gonna put me way over budget.
 
The FICHT engines were so much of a failure in a new product release they put the last nail in OMC's coffin - and went belly up.

The success of the 200 HPDI vs. failure of OMC, was the reason Grady cut the until-death-do-us-part shot gun marriage with Yamaha. That's right, it's due to the 150/175/200 HPDI.

Last I checked the 200 HPDI is for sale, no need to find a left over.
Less than $13k for the motor, perhaps less than $12K if you shop around.

The other alternative is the ETEC small block 200, they are more in cost thougth.

The Suzie 175, if you think that is enough power is the only 4 stroke I'd recommend, it's weight is similar to the 200 HPDI since it is a 4 cylinder 4 stroke, any V6 4 stroke will be +100 lbs heavier. Of course, the 200 HPDI is a V6.

This time of year you should be able to get the extended warranty included on any motor you buy, to give you either 5 or 6 yrs total.
 
I've also heard a lot of ETEC problems, but it's hard to sift through the BS and the real. They are the lightest outboard out there and have pluses with the hours between manint and the automatic fogging.

If you want to seal off the transom, the Hermco is the way to go but it'll eat up at least $5K with the install. To keep the cost under $15K the ETEC may be the way to go since the others will need controls too. Whatever route you take shop around, the dealers are pretty hungry for business.
 
BobP said:
I forgot the Optimax, does Merc have a small block 200?
Click to expand...

The Opti isn't going to be a weight problem, but they have a 4cyl and a 6 cyl 200.
 
For 4 stroke fans who are Yamaha fans, Yamaha needs a properly weighed 200 4 stroke, even more so since they don't offer a F175 on the F150 block.

I read rumornations of this, but the Yamaha factory rep at the NY Boat Show didn't budge when I pestered him on it.
 
It's tough to get 200 HP out of your typical 4 cyl and have it perform well as a boat motor. They wind it up and have a different gear ratio but do you want a motor running at 5500 RPM for a cruise and max at 7500? They may be able to get a larger bore and longer stroke out of the 4 cyl block, but the original designs may not allow that.
 
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