Anchor Swivel issues

[ROBERTH]

Just to add more results now that I have had more anchor time.....

Week before last, anchored in 3-5' seas....almost too rough to go up front! Ended up with a knot in the line when letting it out and had to get the pliers to get the knot out to retrieve, but she held anchor for several hours and also with a tide change and no problem there.
Then, this past weekend, anchored in 185' offshore and she stuck immediately to bottom. No dragging.
Also did numerous anchoring in 50' to 75' and every time, she grabbed immediately, so I can safely say now that this added weight did not upset the anchor balance for holding or ability to hook up!
Easy modification to resolve this issue. For those of you having this problem, this was the way to go.....

 

[bayrat]

Thanks again for the update..where did you get the lead?

 

[ROBERTH]

Sure, this might look like a jery rig at best, but I never notice it now and it blends in anyway. Just letting you all know this really is a fix for this problem after my frustrations, and felt yours as well wanted everyone to know this is was a very effective solution rather than changing rollers, etc. I was able to find these lead strips at the Bass Pro Shops in the Duck hunting area. They use these lead strips I think to weight the decoy's.
Here is the link on Bass Pro:
http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-Decoy-An ... uct/67908/

 

[bayrat]

Thanks Roberth…looks fine to me. But now Im going to wind up spending more $$ on fishing stuff when I go on the Bass Pro website. :mrgreen:

 

[ROBERTH]

Ha, you should consider yourself lucky...They just had to go and build a new one not more than 4 miles from my house! I have no excuse now not to stop by frequently and get in trouble when I carry bags into the house! :jaw

 

[ROBERTH]

Anchor enhancements continue. For those of you out there like me where the anchor is always getting jambed up on the shank.....Lately, it has been a nightmare for me as the anchor comes up sideways due to swivel getting jambed on the shank. 2 weeks ago, it apparently was jambed when anchored and tide changed direction, so when pulling anchor, the chain was wrapped around the anchor. I reached down to free the anchor and it swung around after I pulled the chain from wrapping around it and timing was perfect so that a wave swung up from the side, then the pendulum swing.....up in the air the 22# anchor goes.....and down it comes! BANG!!!
I see a big chunk of my pulpit fly off into the water! @#@$@@ I say! I was lucky to get out of the way. Now, I have to fix the chunk missing. More gelcoat work!
Well now that is all over and behind me, I have fixed the chunk and repaired the gelcoat. Looks like new again.
Now to the anchor....why is this thing jambing up all the time. So while the anchor was resting on the trailer tongue, I started to play around with it and found the reason. I needed to add a link. Now, with the added link, the swivel is away from the anchor shank and can't get jambed. I tried all kinds of ways to see if I could jamb it after adding a link and it would not jamb.

Pics to explain the fix....By the way, First, the swivel was directly on the shank. It kept bending the swivel from the side pressures. Then added shackle to relieve the side stresses for the swivel, but still jambed. Now the link between the two. I think this is the final fix. :mrgreen:

 

[jimintheair3]

The swivel is not designed to be used as shown, it should be attached directly to the anchor. If it does not fit around the anchor, get a bigger one. Mine is over-sized and I put washers in between to keep the slop out. Mine also hangs up on the out play, after releasing the safety chain, I loosen the chain 3-4" as I look for "our spot".

 

[ROBERTH]

Hi Jim, unfortunately the larger swivel will not fit through the narrow roller. I don't see any reason the swivel will not do it's job here. Also, when I had the swivel directly on the anchor shank, it was bending out and over time, would have simply broken off. There was too much side stress on the swivel when it was directly connected.

I simulated pulling the anchor up and down and it seems to work very well this way. Why would it not work or why would the swivel have to be directly on the anchor vs on a shackle or link?

 

[jimintheair3]

 

[jimintheair3]

Another stern tie. JT

 

[jimintheair3]

This was suppose to be first, then pictures ! Physics ! When you add the shackle you are telling the "designed swivel" the anchor is backwards or 90 degrees. Also, the way you put your line and/or rode into the locker has an effect on how much twist you have. The way you pull up your anchor has an effect IE: backing down while pulling the anchor, is it twisting ? I suggest go out in 300-400 ft of water and lower the anchor don't move and retrieve (pause a little to let it untwist) let the windless stow the chain and/or rode. Once you get up to cruise and hit a wave you will hear a loud noise of the chain settling itself in the locker. While you are at anchor you rotate around the spot "twisting" the chain (more chain, more twist). Paint the chain (just one-two inch, just to see) one red at two feet', one red at 50', two red at 100', three red at 150' etc-etc-etc. Now when you retrieve and you see one red (50') you know you are getting close, when you see next red (2') STOP and let the swivel do it's job. Now go slow (retrieving) and you will see anchor chain untwist, if its backwards lower to red mark and try again. Works 90% of time, if it's been a windy/current night it gets twisted worse. Here we stern tie a lot, to save swing space and less scope (twisting). If at the end of the year you pull chain to ground or dock to dry, you will see as you stow it how twisted it gets. SO first trip out in deep water repeat above. Good luck ! JT

 

[ROBERTH]

Understand, but still don't see an issue with the swivel as it is attached now. As long as a swivel is inline, it should help remove any twist and that it is doing so far. I really have not had a twist issue so far. Last time offshore, I let out about 400' of line and retreived it and pushed the first 200 retrieved line to the sides so the primary 100-200' would be able to lay on top and not get jambed. That effort worked very well as I have not had any issues releasing lately.
Normally, when we anchor, it always goes back in one direction with no swinging due to wind. This last issue I had was in the inlet during a tide change, which is very rare for me to be anchored in this situation, but I am positive the reason the chain was twisted was due to the swivel jambed up on the shank. I had pulled anchor several times during this day and each time, the anchor swivel was jambed on the shank. I had to wonder why I was moving at anchor as never had this issue before. I had been anchored in worse winds and seas before and it held no issue, but on those days, the anchor swivel did not jamb. So attribute the issue to the jambing is the cause of the anchor not at correct attitude to hold. Now, it has the abilty to move freely and pull the anchor up and around to reset in a similar tide change I am pretty sure as it will be pulling inline with the shank as it is designed rather than the awkward angle when jambed. (Trying to make this make sense) :<><
There are others here that were having the jambing issue on the shank, so first solution was it needed a shackle. That helped, but then the issue was when the shackle was opposed direction from the swivel, thus allowing the swivel to jamb, holding the anchor in a incorrect position as if it was trying to retrieve, but was at anchor and not holding correctly. I know that is hard to comprehend the meaning, but when pulling up the anchor, you could see it in the bind and not pulling in a straight manor to allow the anchor to work properly.

That issue is now resolved as there can be no more jambs with the shank. But, real world testing is coming up soon to confirm.

Thinking the anchor line like my fishing line. Let it out to stretch, then give some slight forward movement to relax the tension so the swivel can work it's magic, and keep doing this during retrieve and all should be well. I never pull up with the scope tensioned firm as this of course is too much work for the windless. Slight movement forward to retrieve the line and then get directly over the anchor to allow it to break free.

So far, I have not had to tie off to a cleat and pull the anchor free as it has been coming loose on it's own.

Those are pretty waters you are on there Jim! Looks so peaceful!

 

[jimintheair3]

I understand "it's hard to understand" ! Not to beat a dead horse, have you contacted the manufacture "read engineer" of the swivel to get his/her ideas ? So, my last post. Have fun and stay safe ! JT

 

[ROBERTH]

Jim, you gave me an idea on doing some research on this anchor swivel issue. I found some very interesting stuff on it.

Lots of folks advise against using an anchor swivel at all. Stating never having issues with chain twist most of the time and even then, no issue to remedy just spin the chain a bit by hand and it will turn the anchor. I have done that also even with the swivel when anchor comes up facing forward.

Lots of articles discussing anchor swivel failures when connected directly to the anchor and they are saying they connect up with a shackle to anchor which others posted on this site to do the same thing, but some are also inserting a short section of chain in between the shackle and swivel as well.

Here is an interesting comment from this post: http://www.morganscloud.com/2010/09/12/anchor-swivels/
If you have an anchor swivel, we strongly recommend that you remove it and replace it with the appropriately sized bow shackle. If you really must use a swivel, do not connect it directly to the anchor; instead use a short length of chain between the anchor and the swivel.

Another very interesting post from this site: http://setsail.com/anchor-swivels-why-t ... -bad-idea/
Nelson Lee Says:
December 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
The other (and in my mind, the major) shortcoming with this arrangement is that the swivel is attached directly to the anchor. There have been some well-documented swivel failures in the last couple of years, leading to some testing by West Marine, as recounted in Latitude 38 earlier in 2009. The testing revealed particular problems with side/lateral loads on the swivel. When attached directly to the anchor, a load on the chain that is not in alignment with the anchor shank is going to put an enormous load on the swivel, potentially deforming it. Interestingly, West Marine suggested that for certain kinds of anchors (like a Delta or Bruce) with rigid one-piece construction, the swivel should be separated from the anchor by a shackle. I don’t think that information is well known. –Nelson Lee


I am only posting this as informational and not to debate with each other in any way....just friendly discussion as there seems to be no perfect known solution.
I do know that my swivel issues are exactly what these folks have shown and stated but they describe it better than I did. Side Shear was my biggest issue, but I had the jambing issue on top of that.

I am betting I will be ok with this arrangement but now contemplating on removing the swivel all together and see how it performs. Easy enough to put the swivel back on if twist becomes an issue. :mrgreen: