Awlgrip Repair & Advice On Settling A Mishap

[Bullstanky]

Gentlemen,

While pulling my boat (a "vintage" 1977 204c) out of the water at the boat launch, to end a fantastic memorial day weekend, the flooding tide and wind conspired against me, and before I could move to the stern to fend off, it pushed the corner of my stern rub rail against the boat to leeward, hitting her amidships :bang. After some brief and all-to-commonly-heard-at-the-boat-launch profanity, and apologizing for the mishap, I inspected the damage to find that it seemed far more trivial than I expected. I left a 4 inch black rub rail smudge mark on the other boat's hull and took out a small chip about the size of the nail on your index finger (about a 1/2 inch wide and 1/16" of an inch deep...you can't really find it without running your nail over the hull and feeling it). My grady was undamaged.

The young man captaining the boat was at first quite enraged, but quickly gained his wits, as he probably realized he had no business being docked at the boat launch on a busy day waiting for his truck and trailer (it's customary to stay in the intracoastal and only approach the launch when the trailer is in the water). He explained that it was his father's boat and they had just finished a 5 year rebuild (the hull is a 1992 18' center console and in fact the boat did look brand new) and I'm not sure he had secured his father's permission before putting the boat in the water.

The first thing I offered was to patch the chip and buff away the smudge for him...but he the said boat had just received a brand new awlgrip paint job, and there was no way to fill or buff away the damage. So, I gave him my contact info and waited for a call from his father, who his sister (who was also on the scene) described as being a bit of a "psycho" when it comes to his boats.

Later in the evening I received the call from his father, state wildlife official and son also on the line, and was told that in NC whenever there is an accident that causes more than $2,000 in damage paperwork has to be filed. I of course said, "Hey, wait a minute, we're talking about a small scratch here—more than $2,000???"

He basically said he would have to have the entire hull stripped and re-awlgripped...and that there was a hairline crack in the gunwale on the other side from where my boat pushed his into a piling on the dock that would also need repair. He said if it were gelcoat then it'd be no big deal, but that awlgrip couldn't be repaired short of having the whole hull refinished.

I don't have insurance (no one wanted to offer me a policy on a 1977 204c) and he said rather than turning this over to his insurance, he'd take the boat to the guy who recently did his paint work and get a quote and "send me the bill". He also very reasonably said he wasn't trying to screw me, and appreciated that I was very apologetic about the mishap.

But, as I consider it, I kind of feel like he's trying to run me under the keel. Part of me thinks I might be better off telling him to turn it over to his insurance company, as they are probably no more interested in writing him a check for $2-5k for a chip in his awlgrip than I am, and I might end up better off having them pursue damages from me, either through civil litigation or collections.

I don't really know enough about awlgrip and marine insurance to know what to do...I want to make it right for him, but I'm not sure that, in my mind, making it right means a new paint job stem to stern...even if his guy does it at below market value.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[The_Chain]

Re: Awlgrip Repair

I see both sides of this situation, first off your doing the right thing to "make it right" if it was your fault with mother natures input then you are truly at fault. I also know that there are a lot of people out there willing to screw you in any way. I think based on what you said you could do two things here....meet the guy at the shop he had the work done and discuss possible options, I hardly think that it requires a new job stern to bow, lets be reasonable. Although I don't have any experience with awlgrip. Or take it two another shop and quote around. Sounds like the guy is a freak when it comes to work done on his boat so he (or if it was me) would want the same guy doing to work who had just done it. I think I would walk through the insurance route. They will send an adjuster out and he will make the decision on the damage and repair cost. There not going to want to do the whole boat, I can tell you that. He would be on the hook then for a deductible and you could pay that. tough one here I am sure that another member can chime in with a different route. I know that he just had his boat done, but at the end of the day its a boat and docks/ramps can give/take punishment, ie its not going to be perfect forever. If you had insurance it would be a different story and let them work it out..goodluck keep us posted.

On the same insurance note. I bought a navonics chip last week off a guy still in the box unopened...I asked why, said that a week ago an uninsured motorist hit the boat while running a red and totaled it. He gave false info and split. Turns out his "15 mins can save you 15% doesn't cover the boat if hit by someone that didn't have insurance....worth a check, BoatUS said it would have been 100% covered..worth a call to see.

 

[seasick]

Gentlemen,

While pulling my boat (a "vintage" 1977 204c) out of the water at the boat launch, to end a fantastic memorial day weekend, the flooding tide and wind conspired against me, and before I could move to the stern to fend off, it pushed the corner of my stern rub rail against the boat to leeward, hitting her amidships :bang. After some brief and all-to-commonly-heard-at-the-boat-launch profanity, and apologizing for the mishap, I inspected the damage to find that it seemed far more trivial than I expected. I left a 4 inch black rub rail smudge mark on the other boat's hull and took out a small chip about the size of the nail on your index finger (about a 1/2 inch wide and 1/16" of an inch deep...you can't really find it without running your nail over the hull and feeling it). My grady was undamaged.

The young man captaining the boat was at first quite enraged, but quickly gained his wits, as he probably realized he had no business being docked at the boat launch on a busy day waiting for his truck and trailer (it's customary to stay in the intracoastal and only approach the launch when the trailer is in the water). He explained that it was his father's boat and they had just finished a 5 year rebuild (the hull is a 1992 18' center console and in fact the boat did look brand new) and I'm not sure he had secured his father's permission before putting the boat in the water.

The first thing I offered was to patch the chip and buff away the smudge for him...but he the said boat had just received a brand new awlgrip paint job, and there was no way to fill or buff away the damage. So, I gave him my contact info and waited for a call from his father, who his sister (who was also on the scene) described as being a bit of a "psycho" when it comes to his boats.

Later in the evening I received the call from his father, state wildlife official and son also on the line, and was told that in NC whenever there is an accident that causes more than $2,000 in damage paperwork has to be filed. I of course said, "Hey, wait a minute, we're talking about a small scratch here—more than $2,000???"

He basically said he would have to have the entire hull stripped and re-awlgripped...and that there was a hairline crack in the gunwale on the other side from where my boat pushed his into am piling on the dock that would also need repair. He said if it were gelcoat then it'd be no big deal, but that awlgrip couldn't be repaired short of having the whole hull refinished.

I don't have insurance (no one wanted to offer me a policy on a 1977 204c) and he said rather than turning this over to his insurance, he'd take the boat to the guy who recently did his paint work and get a quote and "send me the bill". He also very reasonably said he wasn't trying to screw me, and appreciated that I was very apologetic about the mishap.

But, as I consider it, I kind of feel like he's trying to run me under the keel. Part of me thinks I might be better off telling him to turn it over to his insurance company, as they are probably no more interested in writing him a check for $2-5k for a chip in his awlgrip than I am, and I might end up better off having them pursue damages from me, either through civil litigation or collections.

I don't really know enough about awlgrip and marine insurance to know what to do...I want to make it right for him, but I'm not sure that, in my mind, making it right means a new paint job stem to stern...even if his guy does it at below market value.

Any advice would be appreciated.

First thing is to file a police report, just mention that to the boat owner first. Assuming that is what he agrees to, ask him for his insurance information. Yes his, insurance. He can claim through his policy. Assuming his company won't redo the entire hull, neither should you.
Now if he doesn't have comprehensive insurance or he doen't want to file a claim, he may decide to settle for less.
Talk to his shop but also talk to another shop that does Awlgrip. I suspect that the entire hull doesn't need to be redone.

The fact that you don't have any insurance is bothersome. Yes, it can be impossible to get comprehensive insurance for old vessels but you should have liability. Suppose you bumped another boat and a passenger fell and get hurt. You could be liable for a ton of money in a law suit. Heck, any passenger on your boat could sue you for an injury. In many cases, if you have a smaller vessel, you can add it to your home owners insurance or auto insurance for a small cost.

Good luck.

 

[jbrinch88]

We've painted probably over 30 boats with Awlgrip in the 5 years I've worked at the yard I'm at. We've had at least half of those paint jobs come back each season to do touch ups (mostly our summer/winter customers) and not one had to be completely repainted. I will admit Awlgrip is not as durable/strong as gel-coat when it comes to taking a hit or any kind of blemish, but it is quite easy to repair.

Gel-Coat you can usually do a bit of wetsanding or use some heavy compound to remove most blemishes, but for our Awlgrip repairs we usually end up sanding the area, masking it, fill if necessary and just re-shooting it with little to no work afterwards.

3M makes a product we use called "perfect-it". It is a 2 step polishing compound we use only for Awlgrip and it will take most surface marks out, however if there is a scratch/chip it will have to be filled obviously.

I see no reason they have to repaint the whole boat with the little damage you speak of.

 

[mboyatt]

Based on jb's observations, it sounds like you are getting hosed. I would not pay him the ransom. If his carrier gets involved, perhaps they will be more reasonable. Probably not, but at least you can negotiate with them to try to resolve it for much less. The carrier will have to decide whether it is worth paying an attorney to file a civil suit against you in order to collect damages. My guess is that on a 2k claim, they will not go through that expense and hassle. Sorry and good luck.

 

[Bullstanky]

We've painted probably over 30 boats with Awlgrip in the 5 years I've worked at the yard I'm at. We've had at least half of those paint jobs come back each season to do touch ups (mostly our summer/winter customers) and not one had to be completely repainted. I will admit Awlgrip is not as durable/strong as gel-coat when it comes to taking a hit or any kind of blemish, but it is quite easy to repair.

Gel-Coat you can usually do a bit of wetsanding or use some heavy compound to remove most blemishes, but for our Awlgrip repairs we usually end up sanding the area, masking it, fill if necessary and just re-shooting it with little to no work afterwards.

3M makes a product we use called "perfect-it". It is a 2 step polishing compound we use only for Awlgrip and it will take most surface marks out, however if there is a scratch/chip it will have to be filled obviously.

I see no reason they have to repaint the whole boat with the little damage you speak of.

That's about why I had in mind. The question is, what would that repair cost?

This fella is a fanatic and wants his brand new paint job back. He has many connections in the industry and says he can get the work done at cost and probably come out with a new paint job for $2000 and be happy.

I can offer to pay his $650 deductible, and hope his insurance co. doesn't come after me, an if they did hope to settle for $0.50 on the dollar, and then I'm out $1650 instead of $2,000, which might not be worth the hassle.

A surveyor I spoke to who also spoke with this gentleman said the work he was describing might be worth $4-5k at retail prices.

He documented the original paint job with his insurance co., and I imagine would argue his way into getting a full scale repair.

It kind of looks like I'm out $2,000 regardless of what happens.


And btw, I now have a $300k liability policy for $73 a year :-|

 

[Bullstanky]

Based on jb's observations, it sounds like you are getting hosed. I would not pay him the ransom. If his carrier gets involved, perhaps they will be more reasonable. Probably not, but at least you can negotiate with them to try to resolve it for much less. The carrier will have to decide whether it is worth paying an attorney to file a civil suit against you in order to collect damages. My guess is that on a 2k claim, they will not go through that expense and hassle. Sorry and good luck.

I was thinking the same thing, but he said he can get the work done at cost, and if I do this and don't offer to pay his deductible, he may just take it to the best yard in town and give his insurance co a $6k bill...and for that they may come after me.

 

[The_Chain]

I was thinking the same thing, but he said he can get the work done at cost, and if I do this and don't offer to pay his deductible, he may just take it to the best yard in town and give his insurance co a $6k bill...and for that they may come after me.

insurance companies are cheap, the won't let him take it to the most expensive shop, they don't want to pay anymore then u do. Wonder if it works like an uninsured motorist and he would just be on the hook for the deductible

 

[jbrinch88]

Just to give you an idea, our yard charges the MINIMUM 250.00 ft. for up to a 28' boat. That includes sanding/priming/painting/polishing etc. from the rubrail to waterline. Every boat is different depending on the condition etc.

So the surveyor is not too far off (18x250=4500.00). That being said, I still think it's absurd to repaint the whole hull for that amount of damage.

A repair like that can be repaired in a day or less. Thats 120.00-130.00 shop labor an hour plus material.

Just a few weeks ago a couple of the yard guys were loading a boat we just painted onto a trailer and one of the guide poles had a bolt sticking out of it for whatever reason. Well it left about an 18" scratch in the hull that had to be filled. I bet he had no more than 3 hours into the repair and you could not tell it even happened. Looked just as good as it did before the accident happened.

Im guessing he's just trying to get some extra money in his pocket or he's just really in love with the boat. People are crazy.

 

[Curmudgeon]

... and for that they may come after me.

And they may just tell him to stuff it. He might 'want' to have the entire boat stripped and re-done, but that doesn't mean he can or will. And it's real doubtful his company would come after you for $6K (even if they did pay that much). Offer to have your own estimate to repair the damage, and then talk again. This whole thing is why I have 'uninsured boater' and 500k liability ... :uhm

 

[mboyatt]

Man, I hate this for you. But I must say, this guy is not being realistic. Kind of like getting a ding on your new car and demanding that the individual pay the cost to repaint the whole thing. Assuming jb is correct on being able to blend in the repair - which seems absolutely correct - then this guy is not grounded in reality. As the chain pointed out, even his carrier is not going to pay to repaint the entire boat. Ain't going to happen. My concern with you paying him anything is that he can then come back and try to file a claim against you to get more money. If you do pay anything, I would make sure you get a release from him. With people like that, you are better off dealing with the carrier directly and cutting him out of the picture. My bet is that he will refuse to provide you with the carrier's contact information. When this occurs, I would cease communicating with him and refuse to compensate him. That may seem harsh, but you are probably getting played. Regarding UM coverage, he probably does have this if he carries liability insurance. My Geico boat policy has UM coverage that protects me if a boater does not have insurance. I pay the deductible. What a bummer!

 

[The_Chain]

Man, I hate this for you. But I must say, this guy is not being realistic. Kind of like getting a ding on your new car and demanding that the individual pay the cost to repaint the whole thing. Assuming jb is correct on being able to blend in the repair - which seems absolutely correct - then this guy is not grounded in reality. As the chain pointed out, even his carrier is not going to pay to repaint the entire boat. Ain't going to happen. My concern with you paying him anything is that he can then come back and try to file a claim against you to get more money. If you do pay anything, I would make sure you get a release from him. With people like that, you are better off dealing with the carrier directly and cutting him out of the picture. My bet is that he will refuse to provide you with the carrier's contact information. When this occurs, I would cease communicating with him and refuse to compensate him. That may seem harsh, but you are probably getting played. Regarding UM coverage, he probably does have this if he carries liability insurance. My Geico boat policy has UM coverage that protects me if a boater does not have insurance. I pay the deductible. What a bummer!

I'm thinking the same thing, forget him and deal only with his insurance. That's why he has it, in the mean time I would work on getting my own insurance for the boat. Here's what I'm thinking, his insurance company will come out and give an estimate, after deductible he can take the check/cash from them to his own shop..if he is "so connected" and can have it done at cost, which is way less I assume then what they insurance company has to quote it for at full price, then it should be a wash and you get out with just paying the deductible. How that doesn't work is when he is demanding that the whole boat have to be re-done, let the insurance company bust is bubble. Maybe call the shop. play dumb and tell them you have a boat with awlgrip that has a small chip and blister, just to see if they can spot repair and what that might run ballpark, be as close to describing his damage as possible without outing yourself. Since it was just done recently, fading should not be an issue and color match should be easy. Keep us posted as to how this evolves.

 

[Bullstanky]

I appreciate all of the advice.

I'm going to go get some pictures of the damage (it was so insignificant in my mind that I didn't do this when it happened), call his insurance company, and then go get a quote for the repairs.

 

[Bullstanky]

I appreciate all of the advice.

I'm going to go get some pictures of the damage (it was so insignificant in my mind that I didn't do this when it happened), call his insurance company, and then go get a quote for the repairs.

I went and took a look at the damage and have included links to pictures. There is a scratch on the port side (about 8-9 inches long that catches your finger nail), the 4 inch smudge and 1/2" chip on the starboard side, and there are two cracks to the starboard gunwale, each about 4-5".

How bad is it?


Port Side:
https://flic.kr/p/nQGkNB
https://flic.kr/p/nycEcY
https://flic.kr/p/nNDLzE

Starboard Side:
https://flic.kr/p/nQCw3G
https://flic.kr/p/nQGkcM
https://flic.kr/p/nQpcAz

Staboard Gunwale:
https://flic.kr/p/nQH1Tv
https://flic.kr/p/nydjZD

 

[jbrinch88]

How hard of a hit was it? Only thing that concerns me is the crack above the rub rail, other than that I've seen much worse on customers boats who come back at the end of their season.

 

[Bullstanky]

Maybe 5 mph.

 

[Curmudgeon]

:uhm The only issue I see is the crack, the rest is some acetone wiping and a little wet sanding. You should find someone to do estimates for you, too. If the guy says 'new paint job', I'd deal only with insurance. They'll want the easy way out, which is do what the guy wants and let you pay for it. Don't bend over, a jury of your peers would probably tell him to pound sand. If he could find an attorney to take the case to court. He's way too anal and not near enough realistic ...

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

I have been following this saga of aslerp. I am sorry you are going through this. The pics of the gunwale are hard to make out what cracked? Is awlgrip stuff cracked or is the gunwale cracked under the coating. I have no substantive advice here. I am wondering though how hard your stern hit this boat and just as importantly what kind of boat did you hit? If that guys gunwale cracked hitting the dock either you hit it really hard or that boat is just cheaply built. I wish you all the best in dealing with it and like others have said try to get the insurance company involved and the other guy out of it.