Battery education

[Angler Management]

2007 Marlin, two group 27 and two group 24 Interstate Batteries 18 months old.

Been awhile since I've been here, super fun summer, lots of salmon in the box! Now for the early winter maintenance season, and it is being kick started with a project that has been on my list, my electrical system. Here's the deal:

Left the boat all by itself for THREE WEEKS! Can't believe I've been so busy.

Arrive dockside to find my shore power breaker in the OFF position. Can't remember if I turned it to "off" or if it was tripped due to weird current overlaod. Turned it to "on", all AC panel items work fine, but batteries dead. Figure the auto bilge pumps probably ran her dead during the little rainy periods the last few weekends.

Left the batteries on the charger for 5 hours, returned and boat still won't start (no juice at all).

Left the batteries on the charger for 4 days, returned and no juice.

Jerked the batteries out took them just now to auto parts store, all four won't even activate the tester. Gonna put them on my home charger tonight.

There have been times in the past 18 months where they 've been fully discharged. Is it possible that 18 month old Interstates could be ruined by a couple deep discharges? Am I looking at four brand new ones?

Could be the charger... anyone have a new charger they're in love with? Should I consider an inverter/charger? I have a genny, but I have had times where 120 would be nice without starting the "lawnmower".

I'll tell you what happens when I try to put a charge on them. Thinking dead though....

 

[jbrinch88]

Does your charger have an amp gauge on it? If so was it putting out? If not, I would buy a multimeter with a clamp on amp gauge and see how many amps are being put into each battery. I find it odd that all 4 would be completely dead.

I work at a Marina and we sell Interstate batteries. We have had a few "bad batches" given to us right from our distributor but it is still pretty rare.

 

[seasick]

I agree that it is odd that all batteries are dead at the same time. Are these sealed cell batteries. If not, you should check to see if any cells ran dry. It is possible that your boat charger is bad (dead) or even worse, over charging and boiling the battery fluids. That can kill a battery. First step is to try charging the batteries.
If that is not the solution then you will need to look into the following:

It is possible that the charger when not powered discharged the batteries. That depends on the model of the charger and weather the outputs are isolated.
Depending on what batteries were connected to what, one battery paralleled to a second can result in two dead batteries under certain circumstances. For example, one battery can actually discharge the second due to different voltages.

The voltage during charging should be north of 13 volts, even 14 volts for a really run down battery. The charging voltage will normally lower as the battery becomes charged. Standalone voltage for a lead acid battery should be 12.5 or so for a fully charged battery. Anything less that 12 volts is what you will read for a discharged battery. Use a voltmeter to test, the voltmeters on the dash or on your electronics can be off.
If the batteries take a charge, you may want to go back to the auto store for a load test. That will identify a battery with a bad or weak cell.

Good luck

 

[suzukidave]

if a large auto tester gets no response they are likely dead. assuming two were deep cycle they might be saveable if you go to a battery place, but call before you make the drive.

how are your batteries wired? to lose all four sounds like you don't have the service and starter batteries isolated when shore power is on.

 

[Barometersoup]

If you have a decent charger at home , typically one that has "engine start" mode ,and a volt meter you can do a 3 minute test ... Connect charger to the battery and connect your volt meter across the terminals..Turn the charger on to quick charge or engine start mode and observe the volt meter..if the voltage rises above 15.5 volts in 3 mins or less the battery is junk..this test checks the battery plates for excessive sulfation and is pretty reliable..

My guess would be your onboard charger is the culprit.. It seems unlikely that 4 batteries would all fail at once and your breaker was tripped.. But, weirder things have happened..

 

[suzukidave]

i know they are not marine certified but I have been hugely happy with noco genius chargers and i will not use the old steel cased charger anymore unless i need a fast charge. i bought my first one when my old schulco couldn't bring back a tractor battery i thought should still work. the genius worked, and has brought back my son's car battery from the headlights left on dead twice now. they are also way better as battery tenders. they give them a real full charge, whereas sometime with the old charger you'd lose a volt leaving the battery sitting for a couple of days.

 

[Angler Management]

Thanks so much, guys, for the info. Most of it I know but it is a good refresher, and some new info.

Went home last night to charge in the garage, realized charger is in hunting trailer. Too lazy to buy a new one until lunch today. The manual on the new charger says it has a "safety" setting so if it senses less than 3V it will not supply power to the alligator clips. Great safety feature, but doesn't help me!!!

I did lift the lid on all cells and all appear good. I see none of the tops of the plates, all underwater, no one cell in each battery less than all the rest.

It is strange that all four would completely discharge, yet this is an area of the boat that I haven't completely reworked to my satisfaction... I'm not sure whether the switches were on 1, 2 or "both"... if they were on "both" would that allow the bilge pumps to run all four down in a three week period?

At least I know the batteries are fully drained and have water. One of you mentioned taking it to a "battery place" to revive them. Doesn't seem like a long shot since they're relatively new, in good shape with water, etc...

I guess my issue is: I'd hate to buy new batteries if it's actually my charger.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[jbrinch88]

I dont see how the float/bilge could drain 4 batteries in a 3 week period unless you had obvious water pouring into the boat (broken thru-hull etc). Your boat self bails so most of the water would not even make it to the bilge if it were to rain hard.

Once you get the battery situation squared away and they are hooked up in the boat I would make sure you have nothing being drawn from them. I've seen it where a stereo was not working properly and even with the batteries off (somehow the stereo getting power through the constant memory feed) and opening and closing the disc change drawer non stop. Killed a battery in 2 days or so.

 

[Angler Management]

I was using bilges as an example. Pretty sure the fridge was on. Ironically, my Cassette/DVD player crapped out in August.... wonder if I have ghosts in the machine...

 

[Angler Management]

OK, borrowed a buddy's charger that has a few more features, and some general feedback status codes. Black and Decker Smart Charger w 25/10/2 amp and 75A engine start, equalize and refresh functions.

So far the two Group 27's have returned an error code F1- Internal shorted cell battery- cannot be charged, have hattery checked by auto service dealer.

I'm going to test the Group 24's now and then head to NAPA or such for another discussion... but it isn't looking good.

So... how do I check my charger for function? The LAST thing I want to do is drop $500 on four new batteries, and have my charger fry them also! Could it be that my fridge ran them down so low it fried all four????

 

[Angler Management]

http://recovermybatteries.com/batterybasics1.html

I dunno. I see battery acid getting splashed in my eyes as I get deeper into this.

 

[Angler Management]

Local O'Reilly store is going to charge them overnight, should know battery status tomorrow afternoon

 

[Angler Management]

Overnight trickle charge at O'Reilly down the street. Three batteries checked out within a couple hundredths of 11.7, so can be fully charged on my home charger. The fourth one was at 1.7V despite being charged exactly as the others. SO, it's one bad cell most likely on one of the group 24's... bought a replacement, will fully charge the other three at home this weekend, then put it all back together on Sunday evening to see what's up.

I've had some electrical issues this summer, but none affecting my ability to fish, so they've been tabled to this fall. So let me ask a few follow up questions regarding this bad cell to see what you guys think about "yes" or "no" could be the cause of the issue....

1) Kenwood stereo died in September. Ready to install a new one. Bad cell cause this unit to die?
2) Generator quit mid-running mid-August, no power to the start panel, and the starting relay looks like it got warm. New replacement fuel and starting relays have no effect.... if this bad battery was the genny starting battery, this could be my issue, yes?
3) Vice versa, could my genny throwing off weird current have killed my battery? Is it odd it is only one and not all four?
4) This Interstate is 18 months old and past warranty, but I've had some type of trouble for a while now. How common is it for a battery to get a bad cell in the first 12-18 months, and does it depend on anything like two or three deep discharges, a hot marina, vibration from running the boat?
5) Stbd Yamaha LED fuel gauge stuck at 50%. It responds whenever I put more than 50% in, but stays stuck at 50% when i fall below. This sounds like a float issue, not electrical. But....?
6) I'll fully charge these and put them in the boat to see if the genny starts... how do I test my charger to see if it functions properly? Don't really want to run the batteries down very low on purpose to test the charging...

Thanks guys. I'll let you know Sunday night
RC

 

[Angler Management]

OK to summarize,
One dead cell or battery out of three. Bought a new one of same group (24). Step charged the other three. Put them all back together (reminder, take a picture for reference of the setup BEFORE you take it apart). Started fine.

So I left her on the shore power charger with a mid-sized load overnight last night. I'll head over after work today to see how it is going...

I'm very surprised/skeptical that I'd end up with a dead cell at 18 months on only one battery. Especially the battery that wasn't really connected to anything special... it is functionally in series with the other battery in the bank...

One interesting note: the stereo that was non-functional in September's boating now works again.

I'm pretty sure my education isn't over. But thanks to everyone for their comments and ideas.

:dance

 

[Meanwhile]

I've been considering changing the battery wiring on my 2007 Marlin. I had 4 batteries on my last boat with 2 auto circuits that would charge the start batteries first, then charge the house batteries. I split the house functions between the 2 batteries. I could combine all for an emergency start.

Is there an advantage to how Grady wired the four, just two banks, with the house load able to draw down the start battery? If so I can't see it.

 

[Angler Management]

The only advantage I can see is this: a 4 house battery bank is bigger than a 2....

My last two boats I've redone to put voltage sensitive relays in so the starting batteries were topped off then excess goes to the house. I see a couple of potential problems with this setup for this boat. 1) Functionally makes your house bank go from 4 batteries to 2 batteries, could be problematic depending on how you use the boat i.e. multiple overnights on the hook. 2) If for some reason you've discharged your house deeply, the alternators may not be able to keep up with the discharge/recharge cycle as you run your radar, plotter, stereo, autopilot, etc... so would need to utilize the genny pretty religiously to keep the 2 house batteries from getting repeatedly deeply discharged. You could always join all four with the switches, but then you're mixing fully charged with partially discharged, and also defeating the purpose of having the starting bank isolated.

I'm considering going with three Deep Cycle "house" batteries, and one "starting" battery for both engines, with a voltage sensitive relay that opens when the one starter is charged. Gives me more wiggle room with discharging the house bank.

I'll need to look at it again and consider it more deeply, but that's the direction I'm headed. Either that or take the genny out and put a couple 4 or 8 D's in its place....

 

[suzukidave]

no way would i use a single starter battery for two engines. two completely autonomous starter batteries gives you redundancy. if you need more service batteries, add a 5th battery if your charging system can handle it.

 

[jimintheair3]

This was an "interesting read" ! Thank you , but :sorry I will not go out and fish with you in the "straits".

 

[Lt.Mike]

Yes this was an interesting thread. The link giving a tip on joining two batteries to raise the dead batteries voltage to a point where the charger will work was slick.
I didn't really see the cause for the drain identified though beyond speculation. All attention goes to a battery issue but other clues (stereo malfunctioning) say to me there may be a short to ground somewhere in the system. That would definitely cause the batteries to drain and other phantom issues to pop up.
If you encounter another unexplained dead battery I'd methodically check each circuit starting with the stereo and bilge pump wires then work back.