Bilge pump indicator lamp

[Ky Grady]

LT,,

Actually have 3 Attwood Auto pumps. 1 - 750gph and 2 - 1100's which say 820gph on the label. The 750 is a 3/4" discharge and the 1100's are 1 1/8" discharge. All new, never installed.

 

[glacierbaze]

I think they are 1100 GPH, with no lift, and no restrictions. 820 GPH with 1 meter of lift.

 

[Ky Grady]

You are correct. Says that on the label also.

 

[SkunkBoat]

I understand what you are describing but if the switch you are talking about is the helm one manual bilge pump function, it has no knowledge if the automatic feature of the pump is active ( float switch activated)

Also, with those switches, the red light in manual mode may light up but that doesn't mean the pump is running if there is a break in the feed from the switch or there is a bad ground for the pump.

It did indicate the auto pump running. When the float switches on there is 12v applied to the pump. the manual switch is connected to the same point so the 12v is felt at the switched side of the manual switch and the light is lit, even though the manual switch is turned off.

 

[Hookup1]

I can't speak for all GW models but my bilge pumps are wired with three wires. When things are working it tells me if I have water in the bilge that is supposed to be pumping out. Even the automatic bilge pumps have 3-wire (integrated float) capabilities that have manual run / monitor on third wire.

http://old.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/store/product/files/875/69370-saharapumps-rc-021116.pdf

 

[seasick]

It did indicate the auto pump running. When the float switches on there is 12v applied to the pump. the manual switch is connected to the same point so the 12v is felt at the switched side of the manual switch and the light is lit, even though the manual switch is turned off.

Yes, you made my light bulb go off!
I hadn't looked at it like that but it makes sense. I am going to do a test next week and confirm.

 

[Lt.Mike]

Are you saying that the light comes on when the bilge pumps in automatic mode? I don't see how that could be.

If the pump has an external float providing power to the pump it could provide power to a lamp as well. An internal switch would be difficult to swing that with.

 

[Lt.Mike]

LT,,,

I installed a Rule 2000 and a new SureBail float switch in mine. The original was a Attwood 1250 with a SureBail. I have 2 of those Attwood auto pumps like yours, sitting in my basement, brand new. Let me get home this afternoon and check the GPH, thinking they are 1200 or 1250. Can hook you up at a great price, before you go out and buy one.

View attachment 22697

Sounds great but in an effort to curb my OCD and to keep it simple found an Attwood S750 pump new on eBay for half the price westmarine wants. It uses the same housing and hose the S500 uses so after I wire it up I don’t have to unbolt the S500’s basket housing. That’s a big plus because the overnighter doesn’t have an easy access to the bilge area. In fact it’s horribly tight. With the same type of pump all I have to do is press the tabs to release the old pump then snap the new one in. It’s a slight upgrade from what’s there now so that’s something and I still plan to install a large emergency pump .
Reading the reviews on these pumps the float switches are the first to go and usually last about 5 years +/-. Who can say how long the one in my boat was in there ??? I kind of expect things to last longer so I’ll have to make a practice of checking the pump on a regular basis.
As for a lamp I could always install a separate float switch just for that(?)

 

[DennisG01]

From my experience, float switches in clean bilges last A LOT longer than 5 years. I think it's the dirty, gunky bilges that for some reason give them a shorter life. I commonly see these things still in use after 10 or 15 years.

When you install the emergency/high water pump, you'll need a separate float switch (not an automatic pump) and pump. While you "could" wire a switch for this one, it really only needs the constant power from the battery for the float. Installing a switch, however, would create redundancy and that's not a bad thing. BUT, the reason for the separate pieces is the pump still gets mounted on the bilge floor - the float switch gets mounted slightly higher. Another option for the bilge float switch is an electronic, water-sensing switch... Johnson, Attwood, Whale, Water Witch... all seem to be good.

 

[Hookup1]

You don't need a separate float to power a indicator light in/at the manual bilge pump switch. Pump has 3 wires plus, minus and manual. Just connect to a lighted switch or install a 5 volt LED + side to switch and - side to ground. See attached.

By the way, I agree completely with replacing same with same whenever possible. As long as there is nothing inherently wrong with the original. I have enough projects to do and getting something new installed that isn't a perfect fit is not what I want to spend time on.

 

[Hookup1]

From my experience, float switches in clean bilges last A LOT longer than 5 years. I think it's the dirty, gunky bilges that for some reason give them a shorter life. I commonly see these things still in use after 10 or 15 years.

When you install the emergency/high water pump, you'll need a separate float switch (not an automatic pump) and pump. While you "could" wire a switch for this one, it really only needs the constant power from the battery for the float. Installing a switch, however, would create redundancy and that's not a bad thing. BUT, the reason for the separate pieces is the pump still gets mounted on the bilge floor - the float switch gets mounted slightly higher. Another option for the bilge float switch is an electronic, water-sensing switch... Johnson, Attwood, Whale, Water Witch... all seem to be good.

Biggest cause of float switch failure is the wires are not tied up to keep them out of the water and constant flexing. For an alarm I would use a simple exposed float switch that hangs down. Something you can easily test when you are in the bilge. Wire up same as the other bilge pump. Add a loud noisy alarm to your high water alarm/pump too. I don't have one yet but it is on my project list.

You don't really need a pump - just a high water alarm. The purpose of the alarm is to give you a head start to assess the problem before the bilge water is too high to see what is going on. But the reason the alarm is going off may be a bad bilge pump.

A few years ago we were offshore in FL when a front pushed thru. Temp dropped and it started blowing. Packed up and started back. Halfway back the forward bilge pump light came on. The bilge pump indicator light was on but nothing was coming out. We didn't know it at the time but the Marlon thru hull fitting for the forward bilge pump hose snapped (not tied up behind the refrigerator). Pumping the bilge water back into the boat. The fitting was above the waterline but it was rough enough some water was getting in. The bilge is usually dry so any water that doesn't clear quickly was a concern. I would recommend good visible bilge indicators on the console. A high water alarm would be a good idea too.

 

[Sdfish]

Pics of my second bilge pump. I added the 2nd float switch and alarm about 9 inches up from the 1st one.

 

[DennisG01]

Biggest cause of float switch failure is the wires are not tied up to keep them out of the water and constant flexing. For an alarm I would use a simple exposed float switch that hangs down. Something you can easily test when you are in the bilge. Wire up same as the other bilge pump. Add a loud noisy alarm to your high water alarm/pump too. I don't have one yet but it is on my project list.

You don't really need a pump - just a high water alarm. The purpose of the alarm is to give you a head start to assess the problem before the bilge water is too high to see what is going on. But the reason the alarm is going off may be a bad bilge pump.

A few years ago we were offshore in FL when a front pushed thru. Temp dropped and it started blowing. Packed up and started back. Halfway back the forward bilge pump light came on. The bilge pump indicator light was on but nothing was coming out. We didn't know it at the time but the Marlon thru hull fitting for the forward bilge pump hose snapped (not tied up behind the refrigerator). Pumping the bilge water back into the boat. The fitting was above the waterline but it was rough enough some water was getting in. The bilge is usually dry so any water that doesn't clear quickly was a concern. I would recommend good visible bilge indicators on the console. A high water alarm would be a good idea too.

However, the secondary "emergency" pump is also there as redundancy should the primary fail. Plus, it's typically a higher GPM rating than the primary since the idea is that, IF it's activated, it may be because there's a leak somewhere and the primary needs help. In many larger boats, this is often standard equipment.

But, yes, nothing really replaces visual inspections.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I appreciate the input guys, lots of good stuff. I see that a lot of pics show that corrugated hose used. I don’t have much faith in that type of line. I know my pic shows it In mine too but I’ve since replaced it with clear webbing re-enforced pressure hose. That corrugated stuff can develop cracks. When I installed the baitwell pump, it’s lines fore and aft along with the washdown pump I bought 3/4” hose in bulk from Defender marine.
Another thing I noticed while in the bilge in the last few days was that the “stainless” hose clamps on my washdown pump were rusting what the heck ?
They’re not bad right now but at seasons end I’ll have to make a point of replacing them.

 

[DennisG01]

Yup, some brands of SS clamps are better than others - it all comes down to the quality of the metal being used. Stainless steel "stains less"... it's not "stain proof"

EDIT: Oh... and some "SS" band clamps... use a SS band, but still have a regular steel worm gear!!!

 

[Lt.Mike]

EDIT: Oh... and some "SS" band clamps... use a SS band, but still have a regular steel worm gear!!!

And that pretty much covers what I’ve got with these.
There are 2 grades at west marine and these are the cheaper of the 2. I know I put the pricey ones doubled up on the fuel lines at least.

 

[DennisG01]

Scandvik actually makes some really nice band clamps... 316SS with a solid band and rolled edges - both so it doesn't bite into the hose and also lasts longer.

 

[Hookup1]

However, the secondary "emergency" pump is also there as redundancy should the primary fail. Plus, it's typically a higher GPM rating than the primary since the idea is that, IF it's activated, it may be because there's a leak somewhere and the primary needs help. In many larger boats, this is often standard equipment.

But, yes, nothing really replaces visual inspections.

Bilge pumps are really there to keep you from sinking at the dock (or on your trailer). They can only really handle small leaks or small amounts of water that comes into obscure places. If you were to hole the hull they may buy some time but they really don't have the capacity to save the boat. That is why its important to know something has gone bad early on and deal with it. It's good too have the extra pump but it will only buy more time.

The big boats I'm involved with usually have crash pumps - a y-valve on a inboard Diesel engine intake with a strainer in the bilge. This can pump a lot of water and possibly save the boat. Doesn't really apply to outboards.

Those spiral bound hoses are not very good. The clear reinforced vinyl is my choice. The black wire hoses are overkill for me. As for clamps there are different grades of stainless. The 316 stainless are the best.

 

[DennisG01]

The big boats I'm involved with usually have crash pumps - a y-valve on a inboard Diesel engine intake with a strainer in the bilge. This can pump a lot of water and possibly save the boat. Doesn't really apply to outboards.

Funny... I thought of mentioning crash valves, too!

 

[Hookup1]

It good to know that all GW hulls have basic flotation. Hopefully you never have to test it!

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