Boat trailer update

[family affair]

This is 100% true. Too much grease pumped in can cause the rear seal to leak - which won't be seen because it's behind the wheel. This wil then let water in. For most people, adding grease once to maybe 3 times a season is more than enough. Stop adding grease once the BB's spring plate gets close to fully compressed.

Dennis, is this based on 1st hand experience? Your statement seems a lot more reasonable than what Loadrite states. My owners manual suggests greasing after every dunk! I see so many horror stories about bearing failures and have wondered what interval works best.

 

[DennisG01]

Dennis, is this based on 1st hand experience? Your statement seems a lot more reasonable than what Loadrite states. My owners manual suggests greasing after every dunk! I see so many horror stories about bearing failures and have wondered what interval works best.

Yes - you'd be surprised at how many customers we get with failed/failing bearings with the rear seal blown out/leaking. When we inform the customers, it's invariably responded to with "I can't understand how I can have bearing problems... I put grease in them every time I trailer!".

After every dunk? No, no, NO! Definitely not!

 

[glacierbaze]

Trailer brakes are no different than car and truck brakes were, before sealed wheel bearings. Most were only greased when the brake drums were removed for brake service, sometimes 20 or 30K miles, or more, with very few bearing failures.

 

[wrxhoon]

I don't understand why you guys are having so much trouble with your trailer bearings.
Set it up right in the first place and you never have any problems for years on end, do it wrong and you are always in trouble.
I use S/S sleeves on my spindles very easy to install , i'm sure you can find how to do it on youtube.
This ensures that the double lip seal always sits on a perfect surface so no water can get in the hub.
I only use gal hubs I know you can get S/S but I find the gal lasts almost the life of the trailer, it doesn't matter if you get surface rust on the outside it doesn't effect it. Use Bearing buddies ( bearing buddy brand, don't use Chinese copies) and USA or Japanese made bearings any reputable brand, I use some goo when I install the B/B's so they are totally waterproof, don't forget the bras as well. Use marine grease and pack the hub fully so all the air goes out the first time you install . Pump the grease nipple until the spring starts pushing it out once it starts rocking don't pump any more otherwise you will push the seal to the back. Check periodically by pushing the spring it it still rocks no need to pump more grease.

If you want your brakes to work every time for years on end with just changing pads use S/S calipers and rotors . You can buy a kit ( I prefer Kodiak) you get S/S Caliper, S/S rotor, S/S bracket and S/S backing on the pads. If you are using the trailer weekly you can probably get away with just S/S calipers but most of you there don't use the trailers in winter so you need S/S rotors too.
I know a lot of you will say it is expensive around 3 times the price but rest assured they are much cheaper in the long run and you always have brakes. It is a good idea to use braided flexible brake lines as well. If you want to stop you need electric actuator, here it is mandatory on trailers over 2000kg ( 4400 lbs)
Don't bother with spring axles either just use Torsion axles, again much more expensive but cheaper in the long run plus you get bent axles so your boat sits lower , easier to launch and much more stable on the road.
As for trailer lights good water submersible LED are best and run the wiring all the way to the front draw bar where the plug is DON'T join or split anywhere and always use tinned cables.
Another thing you have there are none radial trailer tyres, up to you but I won't use them I use 8 ply light truck radial tyres they are well worth it for not a lot more money.

 

[seasick]

I agree about the advantages torsion springs if you have that option. I don't completely agree about greasing the hubs though. The grease serves two purposes, lubrication of course but also water exclusion.
Once water, especially salt water gets in it can get into the bearings and cause corrosion.
Some spindles have center mounted zerk fittings and a grease channel that runs from the rear back out to the front spindle shaft.Those spindles typically have a rubber round plug about an inch and a quarter in diameter and with a raised dimple in the center. When grease is pumped in, it fills the bearing, the rear space and then flows back to the front spindle. As long as that path stays clear, you can pump grease all day long and not blow out the seals. The grease just spills out of the hub. The hub itself has a rubber plug that you remove to grease and replace when done.
Although it is possible on other types of hubs to pump grease till it comes out the seal, there are other causes for blowout. One of course is worn seals but also overheated spindles/bearings that can damage the seal. In addition, overheating will expand the grease but also can boil any water assuming the bearing gets that hot which it can.

In my mind, the number 1 mistake folks make is improperly tightening the spindle nut, usually too tight Each manufacturer has their own recommended method but in general, you tighten down fairly tight, spin the hub, check for tight again ( that is making sure the bearings are seated and thick grease is squeezed out) and then backing off the nut as per the instructions. That can be a 1/4 turn or more..
For routine maintenance I suggest a few things: Check the inside of the wheel rim, especially the back for grease stains a sure sign of a leak. Jack up the wheels and give them a wiggle and a spin to look for excess play or bearing noise.
When trailering , it was mentioned to feel the hubs now and then. I prefer to use an infrared thermometer. The absolute temps are not super important but major differences between wheels can mean there is a problem. On dual or triple axle trailers, the wheels with brakes will usually be hotter than those with no brakes. Knowing what your typical temps are will help in the future to quickly identify issues.
While I am at it and sitting around going stir crazy, I also want to mention the oil bath bearing systems. Boy did they seem like a good idea. How many of those trailers have you seen with oil spun all over the rims?

 

[Clark.N]

I agree about the advantages torsion springs if you have that option. I don't completely agree about greasing the hubs though. The grease serves two purposes, lubrication of course but also water exclusion.
Once water, especially salt water gets in it can get into the bearings and cause corrosion.
Some spindles have center mounted zerk fittings and a grease channel that runs from the rear back out to the front spindle shaft.Those spindles typically have a rubber round plug about an inch and a quarter in diameter and with a raised dimple in the center. When grease is pumped in, it fills the bearing, the rear space and then flows back to the front spindle. As long as that path stays clear, you can pump grease all day long and not blow out the seals. The grease just spills out of the hub. The hub itself has a rubber plug that you remove to grease and replace when done.
Although it is possible on other types of hubs to pump grease till it comes out the seal, there are other causes for blowout. One of course is worn seals but also overheated spindles/bearings that can damage the seal. In addition, overheating will expand the grease but also can boil any water assuming the bearing gets that hot which it can.

In my mind, the number 1 mistake folks make is improperly tightening the spindle nut, usually too tight Each manufacturer has their own recommended method but in general, you tighten down fairly tight, spin the hub, check for tight again ( that is making sure the bearings are seated and thick grease is squeezed out) and then backing off the nut as per the instructions. That can be a 1/4 turn or more..
For routine maintenance I suggest a few things: Check the inside of the wheel rim, especially the back for grease stains a sure sign of a leak. Jack up the wheels and give them a wiggle and a spin to look for excess play or bearing noise.
When trailering , it was mentioned to feel the hubs now and then. I prefer to use an infrared thermometer. The absolute temps are not super important but major differences between wheels can mean there is a problem. On dual or triple axle trailers, the wheels with brakes will usually be hotter than those with no brakes. Knowing what your typical temps are will help in the future to quickly identify issues.
While I am at it and sitting around going stir crazy, I also want to mention the oil bath bearing systems. Boy did they seem like a good idea. How many of those trailers have you seen with oil spun all over the rims?

I love my oil bath system, what do you think about maintenance on them? I only use my trailer two 5 mile round trips to the ramp per year and have never changed the oil, only brakes and calipers due to rust. Trailer is 15 yr old ez loader with torsion axels.

 

[seasick]

I love my oil bath system, what do you think about maintenance on them? I only use my trailer two 5 mile round trips to the ramp per year and have never changed the oil, only brakes and calipers due to rust. Trailer is 15 yr old ez loader with torsion axels.

I guess I may only hear about the bad experiences. Maybe there are more good stories than bad. I guess you never had leaks.. Interesting indeed.

 

[wrxhoon]

I agree about the advantages torsion springs if you have that option. I don't completely agree about greasing the hubs though. The grease serves two purposes, lubrication of course but also water exclusion.
That's the reason I said the hubs have to be totally full but don't over-pump the B/B if that's what you use.

Once water, especially salt water gets in it can get into the bearings and cause corrosion.
If water gets in there any amount the grease will become milky in that case you have to remove the bearings and replace them if you don't they will fail very soon.

Some spindles have center mounted zerk fittings and a grease channel that runs from the rear back out to the front spindle shaft.Those spindles typically have a rubber round plug about an inch and a quarter in diameter and with a raised dimple in the center. When grease is pumped in, it fills the bearing, the rear space and then flows back to the front spindle. As long as that path stays clear, you can pump grease all day long and not blow out the seals. The grease just spills out of the hub. The hub itself has a rubber plug that you remove to grease and replace when done.
I agree if you want to use these but I prefer the B/Buddies because the the rubber plugs are not always totally waterproof . You shouldn't need to regrease the inner bearing if it was packed right in the first place. Think about this how many times do you repack car bearings in 100k miles I would say none. In boat trailers it's water than causes the problem not dry bearings as long as they are packed in the first place.

Although it is possible on other types of hubs to pump grease till it comes out the seal, there are other causes for blowout. One of course is worn seals but also overheated spindles/bearings that can damage the seal. In addition, overheating will expand the grease but also can boil any water assuming the bearing gets that hot which it can.
Seals will last a hell of a long time , they do in cars and trucks so why not in boat trailers? They don't because the spindle will pit with time that's the reason I use S/S sleeves. The sleeve will not pit the seal always runs on perfect surface so it lasts I would say that the S/S is softer material that the spindle so it will wear quicker but from my experience it usually outlasts the axle, even a torsion axle.


In my mind, the number 1 mistake folks make is improperly tightening the spindle nut, usually too tight Each manufacturer has their own recommended method but in general, you tighten down fairly tight, spin the hub, check for tight again ( that is making sure the bearings are seated and thick grease is squeezed out) and then backing off the nut as per the instructions. That can be a 1/4 turn or more..
I agree they get carried away and tighten the nut fully the bearing doesn't sit as it should gets very hot , blue hot and it disintegrates. You tighten the bearing until she sits then back off until the wheel starts to have free play then do it up until no more play. In most cases that is only finger tight.


For routine maintenance I suggest a few things: Check the inside of the wheel rim, especially the back for grease stains a sure sign of a leak. Jack up the wheels and give them a wiggle and a spin to look for excess play or bearing noise.
When trailering , it was mentioned to feel the hubs now and then. I prefer to use an infrared thermometer. The absolute temps are not super important but major differences between wheels can mean there is a problem. On dual or triple axle trailers, the wheels with brakes will usually be hotter than those with no brakes. Knowing what your typical temps are will help in the future to quickly identify issues.

I don't use a thermometer on mine but I feel them at the boat ramp, it doesn't matter how much braking you do the hubs shouldn't hot enough to burn you , the brake rotors will. If my brake rotors are hot I will not back in the water it may warp them I will wait until they cool down a bit.
While I am at it and sitting around going stir crazy, I also want to mention the oil bath bearing systems. Boy did they seem like a good idea. How many of those trailers have you seen with oil spun all over the rims?

Nothing wrong with oil bath they are widely used in trucks and work well actually it's easy to see if water gets in your hub if you use glass or some people use a plastic bottle as soon as you see milky oil you know there is a problem. I choose to use grease always have , it works for me .
Each to their own, what ever works for you and you are happy with.
The system I use needs very minimal maintenance, take the bra off check that the spring on the BB is rocking if not a couple pumps of grease and that's it, I never repack bearings, if you are going to repack the inner you need a new seal as well, you can't re-use the old one .

 

[RussGW270]

Sorry guys, was busy yesterday. All valid points.

Hubs - Yes, I agree 119 is hotter than I want. I am looking at whether they locked up, vs being over 100 first. I am just glad I got it all below 225, where they were last time. That goal being met, now I can focus on the hubs themselves. If need be, I have zero issue replacing the entire wheels.. heh. Lord knows I have time.

Grease -- Exactly why I did not pump any in them. While I think they are low, since they clearly 'oozed' out grease when they got too hot and popped a couple covers, I wanted to check the validity/solidity of the hubs themselves first. Since I am a firm believer in new vs fixed, I figured to just flat out replace them and keep the old ones as emergency repairs if need be, never know. If they are replaced and then cleaned up and they look good or have some salvageable part in them, then I can have some spares, throw out what is bad.

Tongue weight - Agreed. I have air bags, but those are not near as good as a Weight Distribution hitch. I have a WD hitch, which I was waiting to hook up once I had the trailer able to be pulled. Now that it can be pulled, I can move it to a flatter surface and install that. It should greatly improve the pulling ability of the truck.

Winch - While the strap is fine, I agree that with this heavy of a load, I would feel better with a cable. Does not mean it is a perfect answer, just a better one, imo. I will have to do that later, for now.. the strap works.

Thanks guys!

R

 

[Greyduk]

Russ, If you intend to replace the hubs, you might consider the hubs from Northern tool. They have a zerk fitting made into the rear hub collar so that they operate somewhat like the E Z Lube hubs with the fitting in the spindle. With that design you are less likely to blow out the grease seal and they flush out the old grease from the rear. Check out the video.

Ultra-Tow XTP Ultra Pack Trailer Hub 5 on 4 1/2in. 1750 lb. Capacity | Northern Tool

The fully assembled pre-lubed Ultra-Pack unit features a greasing system that lets you repack bearings without removing the hub so ...

www.northerntool.com

 

[seasick]

Wrxhoon,
All valid points I have to admit that I was not up to speed on the SS sleeves and did some research online. Did you install them to repair worn spindles or are they a preventative device?

 

[RussGW270]

Thanks guys. Will look at Northern Tool. I have a 6-lug so need to make sure I check McClain Trailers website to see what fits.

R

 

[Parthery]

Have you considered the Vortex sealed hubs? They don't appear to be all that much more expensive and are guaranteed for 6 years or 100K miles.

 

[family affair]

You shouldn't need a wdh for your trailer. Your tongue weight should be under 500 lbs. Our trucks are almost identical. 500 lb tongue weight should be no issue. If you need airbags, you are probably 700+. Too much. Slide the boat back on the trailer 2".

 

[RussGW270]

We can debate WD or not, but there are pros and cons for all. Right now, my issue is trying to figure out the hubs, heh.. if you really want to understand a WD vs air bag, here is a great video for it (see below).

On the topic of hubs, the hard part is knowing exactly what I have. The trailer is like 16 years old, and the trailer maker does not expound upon the exact specs of the parts, heh.. which I get. I am trying to figure out if it is a 6-lug on a 5.5" hub, which is what I think it is. I will know more once I get home.. yet again.. lol.

Then I can look at what I have vs what works best....find a happy "middle" ground cost vs reliability.

Oh, and also.. yes, now that I can safely tow this, I am trying to locate someone that can help me weigh it and see if it is centered etc.. problem is, most places will not give me the time of day since they did not sell me the boat or trailer.

Here's the video.. and, again, love input, but you cannot swing a dead cat without hearing a difference of opinion on WD vs air bags. I know my truck needs help lifting the boat tongue... the air bags get it done. I will be installing the WD hitch and testing the weight, just like in the video.

 

[DennisG01]

Weighing... Go here: https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/ and find a local CAT scale. The one near me (happens to be at a landscape supply company) charges about $20 and simply says "Go have fun - do as much you want". I just make sure to call ahead and go at a time when they won't be using it. You can do the whole rig (truck and trailer)... just the truck... both trailer axles... each axle... tongue weight... etc... even weigh just yourself by walking onto it

You can also measure the tongue weight at home with a bathroom scale. Google for "using a bathroom scale to measure trailer tongue weight". I've done that before, too - easy enough. Cut a 4x4 to balance the ball coupler (the same spot where the ball inserts) on that makes the coupler the same height as it is when on your truck's ball mount.

 

[RussGW270]

Weighing... Go here: https://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator/ and find a local CAT scale. The one near me (happens to be at a landscape supply company) charges about $20 and simply says "Go have fun - do as much you want". I just make sure to call ahead and go at a time when they won't be using it. You can do the whole rig (truck and trailer)... just the truck... both trailer axles... each axle... tongue weight... etc... even weigh just yourself by walking onto it

You can also measure the tongue weight at home with a bathroom scale. Google for "using a bathroom scale to measure trailer tongue weight". I've done that before, too - easy enough. Cut a 4x4 to balance the ball coupler (the same spot where the ball inserts) on that makes the coupler the same height as it is when on your truck's ball mount.

Thanks @DennisG01 I will check that when I get home. I am thinking I will find a place there. You'd be amazed how few people around where I live are willing to help, even when I offer to pay, since they did not sell any of this....it's crazy, and a major reason it took this long to get repaired.

Almost there... cannot go anywhere anyway right now lol.. so.. Will be ready by Snapper season thought!

R

 

[Parthery]

Russ....go get it weighed at a truckstop. Easy peasy and about $10 or so.

1.) Pull onto the scale
2.) Get the trailer tires on one panel of the scale and the tongue jack on the adjacent panel.
3.) Unhook the rig from the truck and pull forward off the scale.
4.) Press the button and ask the "weighmaster" (or "weighmistress") to record the weight.
5.) Hook back up...pull off the scale, and go inside to pay and get your weight ticket.

The weight of both panels is the total weight. The weight of the panel where your tongue jack was is your tongue weight.

Hopefully the tongue weight is in the 8-10% of total weight.

 

[RussGW270]

Got ya. Had not been to one so had no idea how they worked. Not too worried about the weight, just the distribution of the weight. I'll get her down there as soon as the zombie attack is over lol

R

 

[DennisG01]

Good video, Russ. I'm happy to see some data prove that what I've "thought" to be true over the years, truly is. I agree that you don't "need" a WD hitch, but it will definitely make a noticeable difference in the way the truck performs by using it. The WD setup helps distribute the weight more evenly across the entire rig. Air bags would stiffen things up - but it's really only giving a false sense of security. Under emergency maneuvers, the WD setup will certainly outperform the bags. Plus, the video noted that the bags don't really help redistribute the weight - especially note that the bags are still causing weigh to be removed the front axle - the steering axle - which means the front tires are losing grip.

It's also interesting to note that in order to truly measure the tongue weight, you can't just measure the additional amount of weight on the truck's axle. I think it was this forum where I was discussing that with someone. I disagreed and said that the only true way is to use that 4x4 method I mentioned above, But in the end, they were making a really confident argument to their point and I started to believe them. But the data in the video proves you need the 4x4 to do it properly otherwise "leverage" comes into play and skews things.