bottom paint and saving fuel costs...

[jimmy's marine service]

i've seen a few references to bottom paint removal,and how to do it proerly...here's the deal guys,if the bottom of your rig is rough,it's costing you more money to run that rig,and it's slowing the boat down too :wink:
here's a boat at my shop,it just got blasted,and it's gonna get a real bottom job,done the correct way...i promise you,the cost for this service,you're gonna make it back in fuel savings,as well as aggrivation...
i'll post pics as we go...

this is the "before" pic...the boat is a 22' hydra sport vector series...

here's the "after" pics...

 

[gw204]

What was the blast media of choice? Soda?

Lemme guess on the details of this job following the blasting.

1. Wash bottom w/ soap and water. Wipe down with solvent once dry.
2. Epoxy primer/barrier coat on hull bottom and bracket. Minimum 3 coats. Is a 1" gap betwen the transom and bracket (if so equipped) necessary at this stage?
3. One coat of hard bottom paint in a different color than the desired final coat and an appropriate hard paint for AL on the bracket. 1" gap between transom and bracket
4. Two coats of ablative paint on the hull and bracket. Make-up of each paint appropriate for the surface it's being applied to. 1" gap between hull and bracket remains.

How did I do?

 

[otterbanx]

I've been thinking about removing all bottom paint and painting entire hull with Awlgrip. No more waxing and since I keep in dry storage bottom growth shouldn't be a problem. Anyone else used Awlgrip? A boat building site suggested mixing graphite(sp) into epoxy paint for a tough, slick, smooth, black bottom coat. Anyone else tried this?

 

[jehines3]

jimmy, keep the pics comming. Mine was supposed to go to soda two weeks ago, but I'm over height with the radar and I did not have time to get it off before the new baby arrived (three weeks early). I'll admit the trailer tires were looking aweful also...and lets not discuss the brake stuation on the trailer...

So it's sitting at the yard and I'm likely going to pay them to deal with it. It was all I had to sneak away Saturday just to get everything winterized. I was going to pay to have it soda blasted and had a cheap price if I got the boat there, but now I'll just have to pay the guy to come to the yard. For once I'm going to let someone else deal with it. Time seems to be scarce this fall....jh

 

[jimmy's marine service]

done....

the boat was sanded and then it was solvent washed...the epoxy was applied as thick as a match book cover...i alternate coats,i use the grey and the white epoxy..

after the epoxy kicks,i put on the "tell coat",it's blue "hard" paint...

it then gets 3 coats of micron csc,it's a multi season paint.a coat is good for one season,this should be good for 3 seasons,mabey more,when the blue shows through,it's time to repaint using micron csc...

now here's where it gets tricky...
aluminum parts,including brackets,need paint formulated for aluminum parts...you CAN'T use normal antifouling paint on these parts,it WILL cause a galvanic reaction....take a good look at these pictures....

this is trilux,it's a tin based antifouling paint,it's designed to be used on aluminum surfaces...and yes it does cost consideribly more than copper based antifouling...$75 for a quart... :shock:

this is how the transom area of your boat should look,if it doesn't look like this,you're got a problem,and it needs to be addressed...

little stuff like this really does matter...

 

[SaltShaker]

Jimmy:

What is the cost of this type of service for a 23' boat?

 

[nauditq]

Can anybody help. I want to get my 25ft. kingfish blasted, same as sailfish hull.
It has a good 25yrs. of old bottom paint, that has been painted over the last few years with ablative. What can I expect redoing the hull, do to my rpm difference ??
I am running a VP duoprop B-5 that maxes out at 4100 rpm @ 29knots and cruise 3600rpm @20-22knots. I need to replace the existing prop, as it has many chips and years on it as it is getting thin.
I really need to drop down a prop size to B-4 that should add another 250 rpm for the 350 to run in its rec. rpm range of 4200-4600 rpm in its present state.
So I am not sure if I should stay with a new B5, or order a B4 .
I have read that the running speeds will go up, but never a comment on engine rpmafter a redoing the bottom.
I would consider my boats bottom to be in bad shape, lots of old chipped paint, etc.
At 700 bucks for a new prop set, I would like to get it right the first time. Opinions, advise would be great.
Dan

 

[jimmy's marine service]

well....

Can anybody help. I want to get my 25ft. kingfish blasted, same as sailfish hull.
It has a good 25yrs. of old bottom paint, that has been painted over the last few years with ablative. What can I expect redoing the hull, do to my rpm difference ??
I am running a VP duoprop B-5 that maxes out at 4100 rpm @ 29knots and cruise 3600rpm @20-22knots. I need to replace the existing prop, as it has many chips and years on it as it is getting thin.
I really need to drop down a prop size to B-4 that should add another 250 rpm for the 350 to run in its rec. rpm range of 4200-4600 rpm in its present state.
So I am not sure if I should stay with a new B5, or order a B4 .
I have read that the running speeds will go up, but never a comment on engine rpmafter a redoing the bottom.
I would consider my boats bottom to be in bad shape, lots of old chipped paint, etc.
At 700 bucks for a new prop set, I would like to get it right the first time. Opinions, advise would be great.
Dan

this is interesting....

first thing i would do is check the engine out,compression test it and be sure all the specs are set correctly...if the boat ran top rpm before,it may be a problem has developed in the engine...
as far as blasting the old paint off is concerned...the paint weighs alot,plus it holds water....
if the prop on the boat is bent,chipped and looking shabby,it's gonna need to be replaced any way....
again,not sure what you're trying to do here...i guess you're trying to get the rpm back up ???? i don't really think blasting the hull's bottom is gonna cure your problem....
check the engine out,give it a clean bill of health...and again,if the engine reached it's top rpm previous,and now it doesn't,you need to look at the engine,if the engine checks out,then it leaves the prop in question....

 

[nauditq]

Jimmy, thanks for the reply, soda blasting should not increase engine rpm due to less drag etc? Yes, I want to clean the twenty years of old paint off, in hopes of adding a few knots to the cruise range.
I bought the old girl with c-4 props on it, that had a good amount of cavitation burn, along with the original B-5's as spares.
I ran it a few times before putting her away for the winter, and was getting 4300 rpm max with C-4's.
During the winter, I loaded the boat down with some mods, about six hundred lbs. worth, teak platform hydraulic bracket, kicker, etc. and pulpit windlass, trying to balance the weight out.
Since the C-4 prop had alot of cavitation burn, I installed the spare b-5's at the beginning of this season, they had some chips in them and a little ragged, thin, but I felt better using them than taking a chance on the C-4's. I think adding all the weight has slowed the boat down.
So, this winter my to do list is to blast the bottom and put new props on.
I don't think I will be blasting five hundred lbs. of paint off, so guess I will drop down to a B-4 prop set.
Thanks, Dan

 

[rgambi]

what does soda blasting cost for a 20 footer. I have an overnighter 205 with a lot of paint on it. was thinking about removing it. How you doin jimmy?

 

[jimmy's marine service]

what does soda blasting cost for a 20 footer. I have an overnighter 205 with a lot of paint on it. was thinking about removing it. How you doin jimmy?

doin' good bro...had a great vacation !!!
cost for the entire job,blast,finish sand,solvent wash,barrier coat-thick as a match book cover,1 coat hard bottom paint-different color,and 4 coats of micron csc antifouling paint-multi season ablative paint...$100 per ft....

 

[jehines3]

Since I could not get the boat down the road my guy uses a sand blaster. I was leary at first, but given the 18 years of paint, it was thick and slow going evene with the black beauty. He did not go through the gel anywhere, it is a great job IMO. It cost me $75 to have it blocked off the trailer and $290 for the blasting. Not a blister either. Will be doing 2000E barrier, one coat hard, two coat soft, bottom paint. jh

 

[Gross Profit]

if you're absolutely not going to keep it in the water what would be wrong with removing the anti-fouling paint and painting it with awlgrip? There's a guy in town that swears by it and does it fairly cheap. Great work, too.

 

[nauditq]

Wow, at 100 bucks a foot, which after getting a idea on cost for soda blasting, I might have to do some of the work myself.

jehines3
You got a heck of a deal, was the sandblasting done to your Marlin?
Is this guy in Md.? and Mobile? Who, and where he is he at? :wink:

 

[jimmy's marine service]

Wow, at 100 bucks a foot, which after getting a idea on cost for soda blasting, I might have to do some of the work myself.

jehines3
You got a heck of a deal, was the sandblasting done to your Marlin?
Is this guy in Md.? and Mobile? Who, and where he is he at? :wink:

that quote covers the entire job,not just blasting...the entire job,start to finish...

 

[jehines3]

As Jimmy said his quote is entire job. Yes, it was my marlin and the bottom was completely shot.

I have a guy that will do soda if you bring the boat to him (Mid Bay Eastern Shore) for around $300. My yard is full up and he will not take any new customers and I did not ask any questions about his blaster since he does boats for him all the time. I looked at Gale force soda and Choptank Soda.

As Jimmy said that is the entire job. I got a quote for my marlin for Haul, Block, blast, and bottom paint from Gateway Marina in Cambridge for $1200 August last season. It would have been about $300 in fuel round trip by boat and my trailer is for yard storage only (no brakes).

I still need to add in $200 for barrier coat and $250 in paint to complete the job. Jimmy is in prime boating area where prices are over the top. All the pics I have seen of his work are top shelf. It will probably cost me $1000 all said and done ($35/ft) on my bottom job having someone else do it which is fine with me. Once the boat is blocked off the rest is easy. However, my guy already told me to expect to pay an extra $100 or so to go back in since it would be another $75 to block back on to my trailer or have the hydrualic while there drop me in for $100. No brainer...jh

 

[jimmy's marine service]

hmmmmm

that $100 per ft price i gave...it breaks down like this...
$35 per ft is my cost for the blasting...now,out of the rest it's like this...a 25 boat,3 g epoxy barrier coat is gonna be needed to get the thickness right,3g@$75 per gallon...then a coat of hard bottom paint,1g@$90 then 3g of micron csc@$210per gallon...let's do the math shall we...$875 for blasting,$225 for barrier coat,$90 hard bottom paint,$630 for micron csc gives a total of $1,820,right ??? add in misc materials,another $100 we're up to $1,920,right...labor...gotta unload the boat from the trailer,block it up,finish sand the bottom,then tape it all out,epoxy coat it-alternating layers of grey and white,hard paint,then micron,then load the boat back onto the trailer,do the spots where the blocks were-same process...takes just about 1 week in time...
i certainly don't make much on this job huh ???? around $600 for a 25' boat,that's the profit...pretty sad huh ??? out of that $600,we've got to factor in my insurance costs,shop bills,electric,water,etc...helper's pay too...so,now you see the price isn't that bad huh ???

price out the required amount for the materials,you will see,it's not cheap...

beware of shops giving a super cheap price on this service...i know of other shops that give a quick coat of barrier coat to the bottom,then paint the boat in seasonal "act" paint,they charge almost as much as i do...
price alone will not provide a true comparison of value,trust me on that one....

 

[jimmy's marine service]

As Jimmy said his quote is entire job. Yes, it was my marlin and the bottom was completely shot.

I have a guy that will do soda if you bring the boat to him (Mid Bay Eastern Shore) for around $300. My yard is full up and he will not take any new customers and I did not ask any questions about his blaster since he does boats for him all the time. I looked at Gale force soda and Choptank Soda.

As Jimmy said that is the entire job. I got a quote for my marlin for Haul, Block, blast, and bottom paint from Gateway Marina in Cambridge for $1200 August last season. It would have been about $300 in fuel round trip by boat and my trailer is for yard storage only (no brakes).

I still need to add in $200 for barrier coat and $250 in paint to complete the job. Jimmy is in prime boating area where prices are over the top. All the pics I have seen of his work are top shelf. It will probably cost me $1000 all said and done ($35/ft) on my bottom job having someone else do it which is fine with me. Once the boat is blocked off the rest is easy. However, my guy already told me to expect to pay an extra $100 or so to go back in since it would be another $75 to block back on to my trailer or have the hydrualic while there drop me in for $100. No brainer...jh

i'm confused by this...is the boat being barrier coated for an additional $200 ??? $250 in paint ??? what kind of paint ???
this is NOT the same job as i quoted,total would be $1,650 ??? that's less than it costs me to do the job on a 25' boat ??? where's this guy located at,i can send boats down to him and have the job done cheaper than i can do it... :wink: :wink:

this guy is gonna finish sand the bottom of your boat,solvent wash the bottom after the sanding is done,then apply barrier coat,in the correct thickness for $200 ???? correct me if i'm wrong,but,don't you have a 272 ??? that would require around 3g of barrier coat to correctly do the job...are you aware of the fact the barrier coat is around $75 per gallon ??? $250 for bottom paint ?? that would be approx 1 gallon of micron,which would be approx 1 coat,meaning it's gonna last 1 season,before it wears off...cheapest hard single season paint is around $90 per gallon...
reread what i posted above this,it gives a very detailed break down of the process and the cost for each step....
are you seeing the difference in the price yet ???

 

[nauditq]

My initial thought was a guestimate of @60 bucks a foot complete. Thus a 25ft. boat would come in @ $1500. I was off base by a long shot. I can't
trailer the boat, so any work done would have to be at my Marina. Kinda hard to get firm cost so far. But I can see the price going over the $100 a ft. guestmate if there are unforeseen problems, like heavy paint, blisters,
etc. I powerwashed the boat when I pulled it for the season, and was surprised how some of the bottom paint just blew off. I am running out of time, and am wondering if I should just put it off till next year, or just do it myself. A $400. sandblast job would be great. Thanks for the info guys.
Here's what I am up against, I sure as heck don't want to do it.

 

[gw204]

If the paint is flaking off that easily, I would get under there with a scraper and scrape it off myself to save the couple hundered in soda or sand blasting costs. But that's just me...