Buying a new Canyon 336, options?

Seafarer_Bob

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My brother is getting ready to order a new 336 Canyon so figured I'd see if any of you are familiar and have some input. I spend a lot of time on it and one day I may own it so want to make sure we set it up right.

The big question - if money is no object and helm master is a given, should we go with trip 300's or twin 425's? I like the simplicity of twins and hear that configuration has better manuverability but I like the idea of being able to plane on just 2 300's if one goes down but otherwise the performance seems pretty comparable.

Aside from that I think he's going pretty heavy on options but open to suggestions if there's a must have you think we're missing.
- Generator
- AC
- Refrigerated fish box
- Enclosure
- hot and cold water
- outriggers
- underwater LED
- windlass
- dual Simrad / Airmar
- extra rod holders
- center bow fill insert

What else?
 

capeguy

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Wow, I am jealous!! Where I am, a bow thruster is more helpful than helm master in docking as wind and current blowing the bow sideways is an issue when backing in. Rod holders in the bow, maybe? My kids would love a Lilipad diving board mounted to the bow, but it won't fit on my 306! I assume the remote engine flush ports are standard, if not get them. Are the bow swing out seat backs and table standard? If not get them, wife and kids love them.

Autopilot is a must, is it part of Helm master?

On my 306 I am always looking for more rod storage, does the 336 have storage inside the console?

Would love to be doing this!
 
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Seafarer_Bob

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I think the bow thruster and auto pilot is standard with the helm master but I'll make sure and totally agree. His marina in NJ is really tight and the current rips so that's a major issue. This boat may be too big for the rack storage he's in so it may be time to relocate. Those swing out now seats are standard and pretty sure the engine flush is too.

The 336 does have some rod storage inside the console / cabin but I agree, there's never enough. I still cringe when I think about when I drilled the gunnels of his Regulator to add some and don't want to go through that again, especially on a new boat.

I did some math today and the arguement for the trip 300's seems compelling. The 300's weigh about 562lbs each x 3 = 1686 lbs vs the 425's are 952lbs x 2 = 1904lbs. Then the 425's retail for about $45k each vs $23k each for the 300's so the 300's should cost less, weigh less, go much faster, with similar fuel economy. I realize they may require more maintenance since there's 3 but the 300s are amazing proven engines so seems like the way to go. I also really like the idea of being able to run the boat on plane with 2 if one of the 3 croaks at sea, seem logical?
 
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capeguy

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Sounds like solid logic to me on the triple 300s. I love mine, they are proven. However, the T425 will likely be much more maneuverable given how far apart they are on the transom. As I am having a hydraulic leak on my steering now, having the electric steering sounds enticing, eliminates hydraulics! That will reduce weight and maintenance. As you said, money is no object!!
 

wrxhoon

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You can always go the 7 marine , 2x627 hp supercharged V8's , a bit heavier than the Yams .
 

Seafarer_Bob

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A few weeks ago I saw an big Intrepid with Quad 7's and my eyes bugged a bit. His neighbor said the guy has had major issues with all 4 and spent most of the summer in the shop.

I think I'm sold on the trip 300' but going to take a couple weeks to see what's out on the used market before ordering a new one.
 

luckydude

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- dual Simrad / Airmar

If he goes with Yamahas they will likely be the digital ones, not the cabled ones, right? If so, the little 7 inch display that shows you the engine data is actually a 7" Garmin. You swipe it and you can get to charts, etc. When you are on charts, you still have 3/4" column with the engine data summarized. I've found it super pleasant to use that as my chart plotter and a bigger display for my fish finder. I had them network that with my other two garmins.

I don't know how much dash you have on the Canyon, my 228 wasn't blessed with a ton.

Enjoy the new boat, that's a beast!
 

Jargon

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The 425’s do not require the boat be pulled from the water in order to service them, FWIW.
 

Seafarer_Bob

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Luckydude I saw on one of the demos the Garmin could be networked with the digital Yamaha's, is that not the case with Simrad? We have the NSS Evo3 with the Airmar 1k on the Regulator and really like it but I'm not opposed to Garmin.

I've been bugging my friend with a custom 58 to go Seakeeper but in a 33 is crazy talk right?

I'm still researching the 425's and like the electronic steering and some of the maintenence options but more money for more weight and less speed and economy just doesn't add up.
 

luckydude

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Luckydude I saw on one of the demos the Garmin could be networked with the digital Yamaha's, is that not the case with Simrad? We have the NSS Evo3 with the Airmar 1k on the Regulator and really like it but I'm not opposed to Garmin.

That's above my pay grade, I'm still learning what my Garmins can do. My local installer pushed hard towards Garmin, he can install anything but he likes Garmin over the other brands. I don't have an opinion because other than the crappy 5 inch Lowrance I had on the previous boat, I have no experience.

I'd ask an electronics seller/installer what will work. I understand computer networking really well, I've had a hand in inventing some of it. An ethernet packet is an ethernet packet, doesn't matter what brand of gear put it on the wire. I get the sense that networking in the boat electronics world is not as standardized. Mix and match, well, some stuff works, it seems that everyone will talk to Airmar transducers. But some stuff doesn't, I wanted the on screen display of the Bennett trim tabs (I can't see the red lights, red color blind) and Bennett said their Nema 2000 stuff doesn't talk to Garmin's nema 2000. So who knows?

If you like Simrad and are used to the display, I'd get with Garmin and Simrad and find out if they talk to each other. The Garmin is pretty basic, it is the Garmin 7-inch GPSMAP. It does CHiRP but doesn't do fancy stuff like sidevu or clearvu, it's a basic chart/fish finder.

I like it because my console is small, I have the 7" Garmin/Yamaha display, a 10 inch fancy Garmin, a radio, and I'm pretty much full. So if I want fish finder and charts, I'm either split screen on the 10" or I'm using the 7 inch as a chart plotter. If you have two big Simrads you will probably leave the Garmin running the Yamaha app so you can see all your engine stuff. You don't need to network it to get the charts, the GPS is built in. I wanted to network it because I have a better GPS unit on the network (so my radar is accurate) and I wanted the 7 inch to see that.
 

Seafarer_Bob

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"An ethernet packet is an ethernet packet, doesn't matter what brand of gear put it on the wire"
I spent the bulk of my professional career selling network test equipment so I know a thing or two, this is a bit out of my wheelhouse but I'm sure I can figure it out. The instrument panel on the 336 is huge but I think the take away is the digital controls will allow more options so worth the investment.
 

luckydude

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"An ethernet packet is an ethernet packet, doesn't matter what brand of gear put it on the wire"
I spent the bulk of my professional career selling network test equipment so I know a thing or two, this is a bit out of my wheelhouse but I'm sure I can figure it out. The instrument panel on the 336 is huge but I think the take away is the digital controls will allow more options so worth the investment.

Warning computer nerd wall of text. Boat guys ignore :)

That's interesting. You're talking to the guy who, along with avb@sun.com (Sun employee #1), made 100mbit ethernet a thing. I was the lead on Sun's first cluster project, internal name was sunbox, and the word got around and all sorts of people would show up at my office to pitch their stuff to be part of my product. This was back in the 10Mbit ethernet and 100Mbit FDDI days. I hated FDDI, would have loved it if the packet format was ethernet, it wasn't. I tried to get Sun's hardware guys to give me 100Mbit ethernet, I didn't communicate what I wanted correctly. What I wanted was ethernet packets at a faster speed. What they heard me asking was to make 100Mbit signal the same way that 10Mbit signaled which is not possible because of crosstalk or something. I could have cared less if they signaled however, I just wanted ethernet packets on a faster wire.

Roll forward a few months and some guys from Crescendo come pitch something they called CDDI, it was FDDI over copper at 100mbit. I listened, said wait here, went and got Andy, who trusted me because I had showed him enough data that he redesigned one of the workstation memory interconnects, I think it was SS20 but might have been ultrasparc, it's been 30 years. Whatever, I had enough information that Andy didn't have and he redesigned a big part of a machine because of me. And Andy knew I wanted 100Mbit ethernet.

So I dragged him into the conference room and said "do the pitch again". And they did, and Andy asked some questions, he was a way better hardware guy than I am, I've done some but I'm mostly software. We walk back to our offices, we sat right next to each other, and he said "So, CDDI not so much, but we know now how to signal at 100Mbit over copper, I'm thinking 100Mbit ethernet, right?" Yep.

Nobody knows that Andy and I were behind 100Mbit because at the time, Sun was winning at everything. They had the VM system with mmap that worked, everyone else was catching up. mmap working meant those small memory machines had 2x the effective size. They had done a RISC chip in 20K gates that worked and worked well, other people were catching up. They did NFS and everyone had to do NFS.

The computer vendors *hated* Sun because they were constantly playing catch up. Not Sun's fault but the idea that yet another thing was coming from Sun was a non starter in Andy's mind.

So Andy and I, mostly Andy but he explained the hardware details enough that I could get the point across, drove to every networking company in the valley, and said "So, do you know it is possible to signal over copper at 100Mbit? Here is how you do it. Wouldn't it be neat if we could have 100Mbit ethernet?" Truth be told, it was mostly Andy because he was famous as a Sun founder, I was somewhat known but nothing like he was. My part was wanting 100mbit ethernet and finding a way to do it. I talked to a few companies that would listen to me, Andy talked to the big boys.

6 months later we had multiple 100Mbit ethernet cards and hubs. Switches followed.

And today? Yeah, we have 100Gbit cards and they are working on 400Gbit cards. Once they got the idea, they ran with it. But that was my idea. I don't really care that the world doesn't know I was behind that, I just love that the industry finally saw the light and ran with it. My reward is I can buy 5 port 10/100/1000 switches for $20. I predict that if I hadn't pushed it, someone else would have, it just makes so much sense, but who knows? At the time, the future was FDDI and ATM. Sure would suck if that's the world we ended up with.
 

Mr.crab

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Did they quote him yet, also think about 336. Want a bigger boat, that keeps fuel economy close to my
Marlin. It will be cold where I boat , but don’t need the cabin of 330. Can you let me know the quote
when you have it .
Thanks Mr.crab
 

PlannedOutage

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My brother is getting ready to order a new 336 Canyon so figured I'd see if any of you are familiar and have some input. I spend a lot of time on it and one day I may own it so want to make sure we set it up right.

The big question - if money is no object and helm master is a given, should we go with trip 300's or twin 425's? I like the simplicity of twins and hear that configuration has better manuverability but I like the idea of being able to plane on just 2 300's if one goes down but otherwise the performance seems pretty comparable.

Aside from that I think he's going pretty heavy on options but open to suggestions if there's a must have you think we're missing.
- Generator
- AC
- Refrigerated fish box
- Enclosure
- hot and cold water
- outriggers
- underwater LED
- windlass
- dual Simrad / Airmar
- extra rod holders
- center bow fill insert

What else?


I have the first year GW 336 Canyon from model year 2008 which I bought in 2019 with very low hours. My boat has everything on your list except for center bow fill insert, and hot water which I have not missed at all. I typically leave the bow cushions at home as I use my boat for 90% fishing and find that the bow cushions are in the way when fishing. My boat has twin 350s with hydraulic steering and a bow thruster. The bow thruster definitely comes in handy in windy and high current conditions. I would recommend at least 20 gunnel mounted rod holders on that boat spread out all over the bow and stern gunnels especially if you plan to do any kind of bottom fishing. In addition, I noticed that the hard top on the 2020+ Canyon has only 4 rocket launchers where as the older model 336 Canyons have 6 rocket launchers. Therefore, I would also recommend a transom rod storage rack with at least space for 6 rods. This boat is large enough for 6 anglers no problem, and the total of 10 rod storage spaces on the hard top (4) plus the 6 more on the back of the helm seat is inadequate for a hard core fishing boat.... . My boat also has a microwave in it, but I have never used it, but have also not yet spent the night on board. It may come in handy one day when I spend a few days aboard. By the way, the Sea Keeper is available on the newer 336 Canyons however, you will give up the under helm storage in the cabin area.

I would also go with at least 8 speakers and an amplifier for the stereo. The boat is large enough where a basic 4 speaker system is inadequate for listening at a decent volume while on the way to the fishing grounds. And dont forget the open array radar too and i second and third all previous comments about adding autopilot - worth every penny!
 
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mr_mbuna

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I did some math today and the arguement for the trip 300's seems compelling. The 300's weigh about 562lbs each x 3 = 1686 lbs vs the 425's are 952lbs x 2 = 1904lbs. Then the 425's retail for about $45k each vs $23k each for the 300's so the 300's should cost less, weigh less, go much faster, with similar fuel economy. I realize they may require more maintenance since there's 3 but the 300s are amazing proven engines so seems like the way to go. I also really like the idea of being able to run the boat on plane with 2 if one of the 3 croaks at sea, seem logical?

There was a thread about this on TheHullTruth. Triple 300s is a no brainer - as you say they are cheaper, lighter, more powerful, more proven and you have more redundancy. Even though I own a Yamaha 350, I'll admit Yamaha has a much longer, better track record with its six cylinder engines.
 

Seafarer_Bob

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Thank you all for the input. Before ordering a new build the dealer has a 2020 with the 3 300's in stock so they're offering some extra incentives on. Not the color we want and missing the refrigerated fish box which can't be added later. We can add the rest including more rod holders on the roof and on the gunnel, bow thruster, and autopilot.
It'll mostly be used for coastal fishing but capable of running 70 - 90NM offshore a few times a year and even spend the night in the right conditions.
 

PlannedOutage

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Thank you all for the input. Before ordering a new build the dealer has a 2020 with the 3 300's in stock so they're offering some extra incentives on. Not the color we want and missing the refrigerated fish box which can't be added later. We can add the rest including more rod holders on the roof and on the gunnel, bow thruster, and autopilot.
It'll mostly be used for coastal fishing but capable of running 70 - 90NM offshore a few times a year and even spend the night in the right conditions.

In my experience with the 336 Canyon, the refrigerated fish box is nice, but I would not make it a deal breaker on the 2020 if the price is right. The fish box on the 336 is very well insulated and holds ice well in the SWFL summertime heat even when the generator and refrigerated fish box is not running. I typically do not run my generator for day trips and therefore the refrigerated fish box is also not used that often. The main benefit of the refrigerated fish box in my opinion is when you are spending several days on board and need to conserve ice to the maximum for multi day trips.

Good luck with the decision!