Engine height Grady 228

[mous]

I could use some advice on determining the right height for my outboard to get a smoother ride in rough conditions. I have a Grady 228 with a bracket and an 8.8 kicker. There’s some additional weight in the back with two batteries, an autopilot for the kicker, and a central live well.

When I'm out in 2-3 ft short period waves, the bow tends to pound. I try to counter this by trimming the engine fully down and using the trim tabs slightly, which brings the bow down but also results in a lot of spray. I keep the curtains up to help with the spray, but ideally, I'd like to smooth out the ride without needing to trim the tabs all the way down.

I’m considering changing the engine height by one hole (down) to see if it might help reduce the pounding. Do you think moving the engine down one hole (so I'll use the top hole in the engine) would make a noticeable difference in ride quality, or would it impact handling in other ways? My main goal is to smoothen the ride and reduce pounding in those conditions. I don't care about the maximum speed as I can't reach it anyway in most of our conditions. The engine is currently in the second hole down from the top. see picture.
thanks for your help...

 

[luckydude]

How yours is is how my 2020 came from Grady. My upgrades for ride are:

A) get rid of the 9x12 trim tabs, they are way too small, replace with 12x18 (look at my post history, you can find pictures). This was a huge upgrade, before this swap, I had to slow down on the top 1/3rd of each swell so I didn't launch. Now, in most conditions, I trim the bow down and I just roll over the swells.

B) Added a seaspension seat post (also have pics in my post history). Haven't tested that yet, will reply to that thread once I do.

 

[c1steve]

Part of the reason for needing to use the tabs is engine weight aft. I have a 228, and moved both batteries forward to just in front of the steering bulkhead. This helped compensate for the 9.9 kicker and the heavier 4 stroke.

I am considering adding on to the bracket to obtain positive buoyancy. This will help when the bait tank is being used, or when the crew is aft fighting fish.

 

[DennisG01]

Having the engine all the way down tends to bury a bow. Engine down trim and tab down trim don't necessarily impact the hull in exactly the same way. Try a slightly more engine trim angle and a little more tab down trim, instead.

And, as mentioned above, more tab span is NEVER a bad thing!

 

[mous]

How yours is is how my 2020 came from Grady. My upgrades for ride are:

A) get rid of the 9x12 trim tabs, they are way too small, replace with 12x18 (look at my post history, you can find pictures). This was a huge upgrade, before this swap, I had to slow down on the top 1/3rd of each swell so I didn't launch. Now, in most conditions, I trim the bow down and I just roll over the swells.

B) Added a seaspension seat post (also have pics in my post history). Haven't tested that yet, will reply to that thread once I do.

Thanks for sharing your upgrades. I saw your post about the seaspension seat and am looking forward to your feedback. Regarding the ride, our local conditions differ—we typically face short-period waves (under 4 seconds) around 3 feet or higher. When conditions worsen, with winds over 15 knots, I usually stay home. Years ago, I would venture out in such weather for fishing, but my lumbar spine can't handle it anymore. So, it's either stay home or find a solution. I love my Grady; it's a 2004 model but looks like it's only two years old. However, I'm considering switching to a catamaran (WC) in the 27 to 29-foot range.

 

[luckydude]

Thanks for sharing your upgrades. I saw your post about the seaspension seat and am looking forward to your feedback. Regarding the ride, our local conditions differ—we typically face short-period waves (under 4 seconds) around 3 feet or higher. When conditions worsen, with winds over 15 knots, I usually stay home. Years ago, I would venture out in such weather for fishing, but my lumbar spine can't handle it anymore. So, it's either stay home or find a solution. I love my Grady; it's a 2004 model but looks like it's only two years old. However, I'm considering switching to a catamaran (WC) in the 27 to 29-foot range.

Yeah, those are crap conditions, pretty square ocean. I'll try and get out soon and let you know how well the seaspension works.

One thing I didn't get is you say with lots of tabs and engine trimmed forward you get spray coming in, I rarely see that but I don't go out in 4@4, that's too sporty for me.

 

[mous]

Yeah, those are crap conditions, pretty square ocean. I'll try and get out soon and let you know how well the seaspension works.

One thing I didn't get is you say with lots of tabs and engine trimmed forward you get spray coming in, I rarely see that but I don't go out in 4@4, that's too sporty for me.

When navigating rough waters, I fully trim the engine down and slightly lower the trim tabs to bring the bow down. This adjustment allows the sharp bow to cut through waves more effectively, minimizing pounding by preventing the bow from being lifted and dropped by the very frequent waves. However, the forward contact point with the water can result in more spray, leading to a wetter ride. Additionally, this approach increases the likelihood of some bow steering, but this has never been a major problem with the Grady.

 

[mous]

Having the engine all the way down tends to bury a bow. Engine down trim and tab down trim don't necessarily impact the hull in exactly the same way. Try a slightly more engine trim angle and a little more tab down trim, instead.

And, as mentioned above, more tab span is NEVER a bad thing!

I was actually following Mr. Eric Sorensen from Grady White after watching his YouTube video on handling Grady White boats. He advised to rely more on engine trim than trim tabs as they act as a break unlike engine trim .... check this video on Youtube "

Boat driving tips onboard a Grady White with Eric Sorensen````​

 

[DennisG01]

Mous, thanks for that. I find that interesting. Partly because it's the direct oppositie of every single boat I have ever run (and that's A LOT of them! ). 100%, in my experience, all of the boats I've run (including my Grady and a few other Grady's) will lose speed MORE because of full engine down trim than tab down. Trimming that engine down just fully pushes that bow down into the water.

The same happens with moderate trimming. If I run the boat up to, say 29MPH, to a comfortable cruise... and have the engine trimmed mostly neutral and NOT using tabs...

Then, if it gets a bit choppy, if I trim the engine down somewhat to control the bow bouncing I will lose MORE speed than if I leave the engine netural and use some tabs to control the bow.

The first boat I owned with tabs was about 25 years ago - and this result has been the same ever since.

 

[DennisG01]

One thing to add, for full disclosure... I have never owned a boat with a tab indicator gauge. So, in all honesty, I do not know if the tabs have ever actually been all the way down as I use engien trim and tab trim 100% "by the seat of my pants".

But the part about engine down trim causing more loss of speed than tab trim (using one or the other to get to a comfortable running angle and lessening bow bounce) still holds true.

 

[luckydude]

I was actually following Mr. Eric Sorensen from Grady White after watching his YouTube video on handling Grady White boats. He advised to rely more on engine trim than trim tabs as they act as a break unlike engine trim .... check this video on Youtube "

Boat driving tips onboard a Grady White with Eric Sorensen````​

So I know about that video and that's where I started. No tabs, just engine trim. I respect Eric but he's just wrong on this one. The difference in comfort is crazy after I upgraded the tabs and use them. In my Pacific waters, 90% of the time, I can do what a friend with a Canyon 271 does, get up to about 25mph, put the auto pilot on, and not touch the throttle. The tabs makes the boat roll over the swells. The stock tabs were too small, I launched off of each swell unless I slowed down.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I've got a 2004 Grady White 228 Seafarer as well, though I don't have a kicker motor on the back of mine, and I've not experienced this issue before. I've also got my outboard mounted in the second hole down from the top. The ride is very comfortable, even with 2'-3' waves, at slower speeds. I don't think I've taken any waves or spray over the bow yet, unless maybe you get some residual from the wind kicking up. I rarely ever use the trim tabs on my boat and only tilt the motor up or down on occasion. I typically just run it how it is and make small adjustments here and there if I need to because of the weather or conditions. How long have you had the boat for?

 

[mous]

I've got a 2004 Grady White 228 Seafarer as well, though I don't have a kicker motor on the back of mine, and I've not experienced this issue before. I've also got my outboard mounted in the second hole down from the top. The ride is very comfortable, even with 2'-3' waves, at slower speeds. I don't think I've taken any waves or spray over the bow yet, unless maybe you get some residual from the wind kicking up. I rarely ever use the trim tabs on my boat and only tilt the motor up or down on occasion. I typically just run it how it is and make small adjustments here and there if I need to because of the weather or conditions. How long have you had the boat for?

I've tried different setups throughout the years. I've had the boat for 11 years now, but I recently moved to an area where 3-foot short-period waves are the norm. Over the years, I've learned that sea conditions dramatically affect my boat's performance. In long-period swells of 8 seconds or more, the boat is very comfortable. But in ugly 3–4 foot short-period waves combined with 15+ knot winds, you better be prepared for a beating.

What do you mean by "slower speeds"? With the Yamaha 225, the low torque means I have to push it above 3700 RPM to get on plane, which gives me a speed of around 20–22 mph.

I've also noticed that, unlike what Mr. Sorensen mentioned in another video about the Grady's ability to remain comfortable in different directions, my experience has been quite different. There's a huge ride difference between beam/following seas and a head sea. Quartering seas, in my opinion, depend on the direction and a variety of other factors.

I've fished on friends' boats, and two things stand out: the length of the boat and the hull design. At this point, I think a used 27-29 foot catamaran might be the way to go so I can keep fishing comfortably for the next few years without sever back pain after each trip.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I've tried different setups throughout the years. I've had the boat for 11 years now, but I recently moved to an area where 3-foot short-period waves are the norm. Over the years, I've learned that sea conditions dramatically affect my boat's performance. In long-period swells of 8 seconds or more, the boat is very comfortable. But in ugly 3–4 foot short-period waves combined with 15+ knot winds, you better be prepared for a beating.

What do you mean by "slower speeds"? With the Yamaha 225, the low torque means I have to push it above 3700 RPM to get on plane, which gives me a speed of around 20–22 mph.

I've also noticed that, unlike what Mr. Sorensen mentioned in another video about the Grady's ability to remain comfortable in different directions, my experience has been quite different. There's a huge ride difference between beam/following seas and a head sea. Quartering seas, in my opinion, depend on the direction and a variety of other factors.

I've fished on friends' boats, and two things stand out: the length of the boat and the hull design. At this point, I think a used 27-29 foot catamaran might be the way to go so I can keep fishing comfortably for the next few years without sever back pain after each trip.

I typically run between 20-25 mph depending on the conditions. If you're having shorter periods of waves, maybe something a bit faster or slower would be beneficial?

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

@mous
What GW do you have?
I suggest you to do extensive sea trials under all conditions, but particular snotty ones to see if a cat will be soo much better and if you like it's rwired olling with beam sea.

Here we have very rarely swell, most waves are wind generated steep chop with 3-4 sec interval and at 10 knots wind about 2 ft abut worst was about 6 ft and 30 knots of wind in a channel, but with the 30ft RIB i had before.

On the Canyon i did several tests from when i bought her with either trim tabs or outboards trimmed in.
Trim tabs 3 lights down what makes her run almost horizontal will make her about 1-1.5 knots slower
Engines trimmed all in makes her several knots / about 300 rpm faster but at higher speed, not sure when choppy and going 21-23 knots.
Eric is basically correct with moderate use of engine trim against trim tabs, however it depends a lot of

• boat size --> as shorter the hull more sensible she react to engine trim or trim tabs
• weight on bow --> a too light bow need high level of engine trim or tabs and both is not fuel efficient
• propeller --> stern or bow lifting propellers can make a big difference
• boat speed --> as faster the boat is more she react to either trim, too fast or slow for wave period lead to slamming or digging
• wave hight and period --> there is a rather narrow speed band where a boat planes with less slamming or digging

The conditions in the video are sporty, but longer period than we have here, almost swell conditions in Mediterranean sea.

I am a fan of so much weight on the bow that boat runs almost flat (but without bow steering) when lower units AV plate are parallel to water surface as this gives most thrust. Then you can correct running level with the outboard trim only and i rarely use trim tabs to level the boat except conditions are snotty.

Trim Tabs are ore efficient to get the stern up, it seems that interceptors are a bit more efficient than trim tabs, rails on trim tabs seems to work surprisingly well but bigger tabs work better but installation not always possible.

I think that the GW hull is a great hull for most conditions, but she differs substantially from a high dead rise at stern hull, high dead rise shine when long distance has to be covered where speed over 30 knots will reduce substantially time to reach destination. A high dead rise hull allow to ride on top of enough short period waves when the hull slices over all its length thru the waves and in case of getting airborn has a softer landing. My last boat, the 30ft rib was like this and except under extreme conditions i could ride on top of the waves, but thats not really comfortable nor best for spine problems and need a high attention when steering.

I had several trips with the Canyon under snotty conditions, first trip ever with boat almost empty but with 300 gallons of fuel was 6 ft swell similar to the conditions in the video with engines tucked in a bit and two light of trim tabs, and a few times 3-4 ft steep chop head sea with engines tucked in or trim tabs down 3 lights and she behaved well at around 23-25 knots. Amazingly well to be honest, but probably uncomfortable if faster.

The back draw of pushing the bow down is a very wet ride on other than perfectly head or following sea and stiff wind, but this is normal on most of the boats.
As i started boating on sailboats i am used to know that a direct A to B course is not always the best for time to arrival and for slamming or getting wet.
I steer under snotty conditions mostly steer a course straight in the waves to reduce spray and then do a 130° turn to reach destination with following seas.
This reduces greatly slamming and getting soaked.

As every of our boat is different doing some tests will show what is best, engine trim only, tabs only or a combination of both, and this tests are fun to do too.

Chris

 

[DennisG01]

Chris, it's funny... I was about to add something to my earlier post - in regards to the bow spray. You beat me to the punch and added a lot more detail that I was going to write. I was simply going to say "Sometimes you may want to tack if the spray is really bothering you"

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

Yesterday i drove her 35 miles up north to Olbia where she is in the shipyard for repower and other modifications.
Sea was 2-3ft 6 second swell and hull was very dirty after a year in a slip and i have SaltWater II 15.5x17 props
Remembering this discussion i had time to conduct some tests regarding trimming in or use trim tabs to get the bow down to do it's work as designed to.

• Trim tabs 3 bars (1/3) down, outboards in vertical position = 1 knot speed loss
• Trim tabs 0 bars (all up), outboards tucked in to have same boat level = 1-2 knots speed loss
• Trim tabs 1 bar (1/8th) and outboard tucked in about half way = 3-4 knots speed loss

That confirm my believe that

• outboard position with horizontal to water surface AV plates give best forward thrust as no thrust is lost to lift stern
• tucked in outboards work less as parts of the trust is pointed downwards instead of backwards
• combination of both makes it worse as trim tabs slow down boat and less thrust from tucked in engine slow down more

Now things probably change with different propellers, particularly bow or stern lifting ones, 4 blades, etc, same for weight distribution what may mean more trim tabs than i need as i prefer to work on that to avoid the use of trim tabs if possible.

Trim tabs provide much more stern lift than outboard negative trim, but that is the only solution for boats without trim tabs.

Chris