Engine woes...

[seasick]

Bought a tester so first thing tomorrow will check it out.

now to watch hopefully the final game of the Stanley Cup. Go Av’s!

Or wait another day

 

[Pfu]

Or wait another day

So 0-2. Av’s lost and doesn’t have appear to have spark at plugs. Tested on starboard engine and tester worked fine so not the tester.

Hard to see the tester when not running in the sun but starboard engine clearing display spark.

Battery is three years old and shows 13.1 on meter.

 

[Fishermanbb]

Since both engines were running and more than once it would be a coincidence for a spark problem to have developed. It could happen but…..

Assume the lanyard was in properly and the kill switch is working as it should

No wires damaged when you were pulling fuel lines

No wires damaged when the cowling was off

Could be a bad power pack (coils) but at leasttto me that seems unlikely given they were both running.

I still think this goes back to fuel. did you try running them on the 6 gallon tank with it’s own fuel hose? That will tell you a lot. If you do that and it starts your problem is in the fuel system. If not it‘s in the engine. I’m not saying you cannot have an ignition issue but is seems very coincidental and unless you broke something while you were trying to fix the engine it’s not the first thing I would think of. Fuel bulbs went dry. That’s a sure sign of something from the engines back. Empty tank - probably with a bad sender. Bad lines - possible but the starboard engine ran when you switched tanks. CLogged separators - possible that you sucked up crud when you ran the tank dry.

You have to be methodical. Try the 6 gallon can. That will 100% tell you where the issue is and you can go from there.

 

[seasick]

Don't waste your time looking for fuel issues yet. No spark, no run.

Check the fuses on the motor just to eliminate that.
Loss of all spark is often a sigh of no power to the ECM or the kill switch is killing
I don't remember if those are 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I assume 2 stroke I have to see if I have a service manual for the motor.
What is the model of the motors?

 

[Pfu]

Don't waste your time looking for fuel issues yet. No spark, no run.

Check the fuses on the motor just to eliminate that.
Loss of all spark is often a sigh of no power to the ECM or the kill switch is killing
I don't remember if those are 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I assume 2 stroke I have to see if I have a service manual for the motor.
What is the model of the motors?

Z150XTRY 2 stroke.

Been reviewing a manual myself but not anywhere need an expert. Is the fuse for just the ECM as the starter cranks? If kill switch was bad neither would start nor crank correct?

I keep going back to where this started. Left the marina and 3/4 mile the port engine died (due to lack of fuel as we know now). The port engine goes another 15-20 minutes and dies as well. We discover the fuel tank was set for the auxiliary and not the main which was showing full on gauge. We had pumped fuel bulb previous to switching tank. assuming we pump air into engine. After waiting a period we were able to restart starboard to get back to marina. Was able to get both engines running at one point but they died again after a short period at the marina. Swapped fuel lines and was able to get both bulbs primed with fuel. Starboard started right up but port only cranks the starter.

I am going to retest the spark when it is darker to validate no spark. So hard to see when full sun and little to block top and back. Will then check fuse on engine and any other things that may come up. Note I talked with the marina and there service guy is out another week after an accident. They are backed up but that might be my only choice at some point.

 

[glacierbaze]

If the kill switch is removed, that engine will crank but not fire. That’s why so many people run the battery down before they remember to check the Killswitch.

 

[Pfu]

If the kill switch is removed, that engine will crank but not fire. That’s why so many people run the battery down before they remember to check the Killswitch.

On my boat if the kill switch is not engaged and you turn the key I get nothing - no crank or anything else.

 

[seasick]

Mine will crank but not fire id kill is active.

My mind is swimming . I think I need to reduce the forums I read.
Now it seems that the first signs of trouble were fuel related and then somehow now there is no spark on the port motor?????
When the starboard motor died back at the dock, did you check to see if it ran out of fuel?

Pumping the primer with an empty tank will not fill the engine with air. If after either engine dies, the primer bulb does not feel firm after 2 or 3 squeezes, there is a fuel delivery issue

 

[Pfu]

Mine will crank but not fire id kill is active.

My mind is swimming . I think I need to reduce the forums I read.
Now it seems that the first signs of trouble were fuel related and then somehow now there is no spark on the port motor?????
When the starboard motor died back at the dock, did you check to see if it ran out of fuel?

Pumping the primer with an empty tank will not fill the engine with air. If after either engine dies, the primer bulb does not feel firm after 2 or 3 squeezes, there is a fuel delivery issue

Yes both were on same tank and died within 15 - 20 minutes from each other on the lake. My son had moved only one of the fuel valves to the main while on the lake. He was not aware there were two valves.

After removing the old brittle fuel lines (one had a small cut) I only had to pump the fuel bulbs 3-4 times to get fuel to bulb. Remember I replaced all fuel lines so a fair amount of run. As of this morning both were firm and did not need priming. Note I have never had to prime prior to the incident on the lake.

 

[glacierbaze]

There are two kinds of kill switch wiring. One makes the connection, and the other breaks the connection, to activate the switch. Maybe that is why some will crank, and some will not, if it is activated. I have only had the former.

 

[Pfu]

Ok not an electrical issue as four of the six (normal) show power at the plug. Prior checked all fuses except for the 80 amp ones as afraid I would break them. I did not pull plugs but can in the morning if needed.

Fuel bulb still hard and filter full.

 

[Fishermanbb]

A couple of questions:

1. Is your set-up oil - injected or do you mix gas/oil in the tank? (I assume oil-injected).
2. Have you checked to make sure your water separators are full of fuel?

If you haven’t pulled your fuel filters on the engine and emptied them to make sure there is no crud in them I think you should. There are two IIRC but not positive on that engine. One is where the fuel enters the cowling and the other is where the oil pump is (Again IIRC). Either way, it sounds like you ran the engines dry on fuel. When that happens often a little crud gets sucked through the lines. One small piece of anything can block the fuel flow on those filters. If you have spark you have spark. If it was the kill switch you would not have spark.

 

[Pfu]

A couple of questions:

1. Is your set-up oil - injected or do you mix gas/oil in the tank? (I assume oil-injected).
2. Have you checked to make sure your water separators are full of fuel?

If you haven’t pulled your fuel filters on the engine and emptied them to make sure there is no crud in them I think you should. There are two IIRC but not positive on that engine. One is where the fuel enters the cowling and the other is where the oil pump is (Again IIRC). Either way, it sounds like you ran the engines dry on fuel. When that happens often a little crud gets sucked through the lines. One small piece of anything can block the fuel flow on those filters. If you have spark you have spark. If it was the kill switch you would not have spark.

Oil injected.

When I replaced fuel lines I checked for water in fuel, hardly any by visual in a jar. Added new fuel to separators and reinstalled.

now for the engine area…

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

You mention 4 of the 6 show spark. What's going on with the other two?

 

[Pfu]

You mention 4 of the 6 show spark. What's going on with the other two?

When starting and idling the other two aren’t used per the manual and my test.

 

[seasick]

Crud is a good possibility. It could have been sucked up when the tank got low. The fuel rail pressure however would be either low of varying (but maybe only when the motor is running). A little restriction would probably allow the motor to fire for a while.


The idea of replacing the two fuel filters is recommended.

If you are referring to 4 out of 6 plugs had spark, that is normal.

 

[Pfu]

My next steps if correct.

1. Remove first fuel filter (see though), Empty fuel. Squeeze build to validate fuel coming to this point.
2. Believe there is a second filter after low pressure pump. Disengage fuel line after filter. Turn on key validate fuel travel.
3. Next one is the VST which scares me.

Hot today (93) but will get replacement filters for tomorrow.

 

[seasick]

It should scare you Usually when the vst screen (filter) gets clogged, the first symptom is either a loss of high end revs or a surging under speed. I would wait on diving into the VST. I am not sure for your model but often the cover gasket ( a rubber odd shaped ring) can't be reused (it really shouldn't be).

The feed to the motor connects to the clear bowl filter. From there the flow is to the low pressure pumps.
Refresh my mind; Motors are carbed?, If so no VST

 

[Pfu]

It should scare you Usually when the vst screen (filter) gets clogged, the first symptom is either a loss of high end revs or a surging under speed. I would wait on diving into the VST. I am not sure for your model but often the cover gasket ( a rubber odd shaped ring) can't be reused (it really shouldn't be).

The feed to the motor connects to the clear bowl filter. From there the flow is to the low pressure pumps.
Refresh my mind; Motors are carbed?, If so no VST

VST is a yes. complete new before I purchased on both engines.

 

[Fishermanbb]

You mentioned you replaced both water separators. Pull the one for the engine that is not starting and validate is is filled with fuel. If it is not, fill it with fuel and re-install. Then try cranking the engine..