Evinrude E-Tec any opions ?

[Zrob]

Hi Guys, I just learned about these motors, how long have they been around? And what do you think of them good or bad?

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/E-Tec/E-TEC.Advantage/

 

[CJBROWN]

Search on E-tec, here an on THT. Lots of info and reports. A few owners here, seems they like them.

I had a 75, was fantastic. Would own one in a heartbeat.

However, so many dealers got burned on the ficht disaster that they will never sell the brand regardless of how good they are. A lot of owners feel that way too. Plus, Grady's come with yams and that's what buyers expect to see on them. For a long time keeper - quite possibly. If you might have to sell relatively soon, then no.

 

[GW VOYAGER]

They look very strong and the schedule maintance being once every 3 years is unheard of in the boating world.
I was looking at mercurys at a dealer and he handed me a CD on the Evinrude and I have to say 2 stroke has come a long way.
If I repowered my boat and already have a Johnson I don't know if it would save any labor and rigging fees.
I would also like to see others thoughs on this issue.
As far as Gradys coming with Yamahas it was the boat which I was buying.
I had a Yamaha on a bass boat before I got into salt water and it had issues and I paid out several dollars to keep it running even so I know Yamaha makes a fine motor but there are other good brands of motors as well.

 

[CJBROWN]

All the motors are good these days. It's a matter of personal preferrence, dealer support, and price.

A new motor would want new controls and gauges - about $800. And Seastar hydraulic of course.

 

[sfc2113]

From all the people I have talked to in my area they love em. I had a chance to ride on a northcoast21 with a e-tec 175 2007, Real fast, responsive, quiet. Great on fuel. we did 35 miles I dont think he burned 10 gal of gas. Gas needle barely moved.
But, I am hearing you have to use special oil in the e-tec and it is quite expensive. Do a search on xd-100 oil and e-tec not sure if you dont use the oil if it voids waranty or not. I think the just recommend it for optimal performance and engine life. Got my cookie jar filling up for mine.

 

[CJBROWN]

>snip
But, I am hearing you have to use special oil in the e-tec and it is quite expensive. Do a search on xd-100 oil and e-tec not sure if you dont use the oil if it voids waranty or not. I think the just recommend it for optimal performance and engine life. Got my cookie jar filling up for mine.

You don't have to use the XD-100, and it does not optimize performance. It cuts the oil mix way down for cleaner burning so they can hit the 3-star epa rating.

I ran amsoil HPi in mine at the regular setting - no smoke, no smell. And that way you can dump any ol' TC3 oil in there if you ran out. Really, synthetic at the regular setting was the shiznit. I would not be surprised at all if the HPi could be run at the lean setting, just never looked into it.

The best part, like you say though, fast, quiet, low maintenance, no valves, easy to flush, easy to winterize.

 

[sfc2113]

Here is an interesting document you may want ot look at:
I made the descision to get one fter reading through this.


Also check the video out on you tube of the evinrude sinking the yamaha
4 stroke, pretty funny.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... _e-tec.pdf


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-7I00cZUE0

 

[CJBROWN]

Yes, what they don't tell you about the ficht technology they bought, is the disaster in the industry when it was introduced. I was not boating in '99-'01 but I understand all of those motors blew up, it put the factory under because they couldn't cash-flow the biz with all the warranty costs, and went bankrupt. Bombardier bought what was left and resurected the brand - probably the worst idea they had was to retain the Evinrude brand name.

The worst of it is the dealers that suffered catastrophic losses as well, putting a lot of them out of business too. And thousands of owners that got left high and dry. It was not a pretty picture from what I've been able to learn. Had I gone through that mess myself I would probably have a different attitude about the new motors. And I like new technology so as long as it works out good then I'm all for it.

Merc had some real problems with the Optimax when it came out too. Not as bad, but a lot of failures. Hence the moniker OPTI-BOMB.

In a two-stroke, the fuel is what cools the motor - run it lean and it overheats. The new lean-burn technology puts them constantly on the edge of burning up, so they are computer controlled. You are entrusting your entire motors reliability on the electronics. That's why a lot of folks are leary.

Bombardier is a great company though, even though they are Canadians :shock: (I can say that, I'm a canuk!) They build the famous Sea-doo and Ski-doos, but more importantly their two-stroke motors power thousands of ultralight and experimental aircraft, and power the fastest racing go-karts. They actually had a line of racing motorcycles way back in the day ('70's). The Evinrude product line as I understand it, is a completely seperate entity from the main company. I also heard they were having trouble moving enough units to keep the production arm afloat (profitable) so there was always speculation it would get sold to another company.

 

[SoutheastFL]

If you repower a GW with an etec you'll create an orphan of a boat, there are good reasons why the company only installs Yamaha 4S's.

The fuel usage on an etec is significantly higher than other 4S's, expect a single 250 hp etec to burn nearly 3 gph more at cruising speeds. With gas on the water at $ 3 a gallon its going to cost you nearly $ 10 a hour more to run an etec vs a 4S. You're paying more, traveling the same speed, and getting absolutely nothing in return.

The 2S oil that gets the best economy you can only buy from Evinrude, is XD-100 and its outrageously expensive like $ 40 a gallon and thats from a discount place online. I have seen marinas charge $ 50 a gallon for it.

The XD-100 oil use averages reported ( this is for combined trolling, cruising, and occasional WOT ) is right at 80:1. If your boat uses 14 gph at cruise and has a 150 gallon tank you're going to use nearly 2 gallons of XD-100 for every tank. It'll cost you nearly $ 75 just for 2S oil everytime you fill up. ( 14/80 x 150/14 hours x $ 40 a gallon = $ 75 )

Change the oil and gear lube every 100 hours in a 4S yourself and it'll cost you about $ 100 and take about an hour. With an etec for every 100 hours at the above average its going to cost you $ 700 in 2S XD-100 oil. ( 14/80 x 100 hrs x $ 40 gal = $ 700 )

Evinrude must figure the alleged extra "convenience" of not having to change oil is worth something so in many places etecs cost more new than other 4S's, especially Suzuki's ( which are the best engine for the buck out there imo ) Compare prices in your area.

As far as the gear lube not having to be changed for 300 hours, there is nothing special about an etec that allows only it to do this. I have often wondered why other outboard manufacturers don't use a similar long lasting gear lube in their engines and the only reason I can come up with is because its still not good for an engine. Get some water in your gear case and its going to go bang no matter if its an etec or not. Its better to change it out more often and check to see if there's any water is getting in there and fix it sooner before it blows up.

Any saltwater fishing boat with any 2S engine is going to be very difficult to sell. Etecs are no different and you will find a very small pool of interested buyers who will only be willing to pay ALOT less for your boat vs if it had a 4S. This is where you will take your biggest loss, on resale. Ask a good broker which boat will sell for more and sell faster, one with a 2S engine or the same boat with a 4S - you'll hear the one with a 4S everytime.

Four stroke outboards also last alot longer. There are many reports of them going 3000 hours +, you don't see nearly as many 2S's seeing that many hours.

GW isn't dumb and there's a good reason why they only install 4S Yamahas, because they are better engines and people prefer them much more over any other 2S.

If weight is an issue consider Optimaxes, they get much better fuel economy than an etec and have more service centers available as well.

 

[CJBROWN]

SE - as I mentioned above, you don't have to burn XD100 oil. HPi is $23 a gallon, $21 if you buy it in a 16gal keg. At the regular mix setting it will burn at about 50:1. That knocks out your oil cost claims.

I'm not sure where you got your fuel burn figures either, but a link or validation would help - I'm just a little skeptical. They have proven to be quite fuel efficient, even compared to the 4S. I'm just sayin.

I do agee with the resale point though, I think I mentioned that too.

 

[SoutheastFL]

SE - as I mentioned above, you don't have to burn XD100 oil. HPi is $23 a gallon, $21 if you buy it in a 16gal keg. At the regular mix setting it will burn at about 50:1. That knocks out your oil cost claims.

I'm not sure where you got your fuel burn figures either, but a link or validation would help - I'm just a little skeptical. They have proven to be quite fuel efficient, even compared to the 4S. I'm just sayin.

I do agee with the resale point though, I think I mentioned that too.

Evinrude advertises the XD-100 oil as delivering 50 % better economy than XD-50 or your HPi oil. The XD-50 costs $ 25 a gallon ( tax and ship incl ) per the online place I mentioned, so do the math and its the equivalent of XD-100 at nearly $ 40 a gallon.

With XD-50 or HPi oil you only get 50:1, you use more but pay less than XD-100 oil which yields 50 % better economy at 80:1 but costs 50 % more. They've already got it all figured out and its six of one or half a dozen of the other. So nothing has changed nor does it "knock out my oil cost claims" as you put it.

And if having a 16 gal keg of 2S oil in your garage doesn't bother you be my guest, but I sure wouldn't want it sitting around as a potential fire hazard.

As far as fuel economy in the March 2005 issue of Powerboat Reports magazine they tested three identically rigged Wellcraft 232's CC's, one with a Verado 250 hp, a Yamaha F 250, and an e-tec 250.

PBR ranked the Verado first, the F250 second and the etec last because it cost the most and delivered the worst fuel economy. This publication does NOT accept any advertising from ANY engine manufacturer and do NOT have a conflict of interest, their reporting is independent.

You'll either have to trust my figures or buy it yourself.

http://www.powerboat-reports.com/issues ... 529-1.html

Per the NMMA of the four major outboard manufacturers Mercury, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Evinrude in terms of market share they ranked Evinrude last. Obviously the boat buying public isn't sold on 2S's anymore and Evinrude has been relegated to a niche player mainly for repowering older boats.

Even Yamaha ( # 1 Outboard engine manufacturer in US ) recently announced they will discontinue making ALL 2S engines at the end of 2009, obviously they know the true market of what people want in an outboard engine and are abandoning the 2S market. And Suzuki and Honda only make 4S's as well.

 

[CJBROWN]

So...are you for, or against 'em...????

 

[SoutheastFL]

So...are you for, or against 'em...????

I prefer to let people review the facts and make their own decision about what engine is best, but the choice is very obvious if you've got an open mind.

 

[SBLGFD]

I will chime in here. We just got our 96 Grady 272 back with a pair of 2010 225 HP Etec’s and could not be happier. Clean, quiet and more efficient than the old Ocean Pro’s

During the process of the repowering we looked at Mercury Opti-max , Yamaha 4 strokes, Yamaha 2 strokes and the Etecs. Did not consider the Suzuki as there was no dealer in the area.

Etecs came in the least expensive ( notice – I did not say cheaper because no matter what you do it won’t be cheap) .

I spoke with Grady about the options and they said we could hang four strokes on it if we wanted but the weight might be an issue, they felt that the cockpit drains would need to be moved up.

We knew going into it that we will never get our money out of the repower , but after several major issues this summer and 6 weeks + lost we felt it was time to make the move. We kept our last boat 20 + years and are looking for the long term.

We did all new gauges controls and steering systems during the process as well.

 

[Grog]

Older models can't take the weight of 4 strokes (twins). There are plenty of combinations where a DI 2 stroke gets the same or better fuel economy than a 4 stroke. Just not at idle/trolling.

If 4 strokes last 3000 hours then why is a motor with just over 1000 hours treated like it's worthless or iffy at best?

I'm not trying to bash 4 strokes, I'm not really sure what avenue I'd take when/if I repower the Sailfish. 2 strokes do have some advantages but get kicked to the curb.

 

[richie rich]

When you're talking about repowering, its an older boat already and if its not a newer style designed to handle a 4 stroke, you are limited to a 2 stroke weight. There is a big "if" regarding the running cost of a 4s....If you can change the fuel filter and if you can do your own maintenance and repairs. The Grady Dealer in Niantic CT has their own marina full of GW's and guess who does their maintenance?? Since they're not selling many boats these days, and even when they are, they're making a living on the maintenance of those nice Yamy's. If you want to compare apples to apples...use the cost to maintain and repair any motor as if a professional would do it, including winterization. And with an Etec, start from year 4...that should pay for plenty of oil.

And 3000hrs on a motor? Have yet to see one, have yet to hear from anyone who would want to buy a boat with time like that on a motor...is anyone out there? Other than warm climates like the south and west coast, the season is short. The average guy will put 100-150 hrs on a motor...thats 10 hours per weekend for 10-15 weekends, weather permitting. And that's a good season. That means a boat will be 10 years old when people start to think a motor has seen its days....3000 hrs? That boat will be 30 years old and worth 20 bucks and you're worried about trade-in or resale value?? Your $200,000 Sailfish will have 1/10th its value...boats and motors are not investments for any kind of return except fun and peace of mind...its disposable cash, so don't worry whether you'll get $1500 more on a 4 stroke boat vs a 2 stroke when you just lost $180,000 or a small house.

Lb for Lb, a 2 stroke has more giddy up than a 4. An etec V6 150 will eat the Yamy 4 cyl 4 stroke 150....things may even up when you get into the 250 plus range, but not on the smaller engines. If you're repowering a 15 year old boat, forget about resale 10 years later...you get what you get if the boat is even desireable to someone. The resale game is for people who buy new or close to new and trade in or up every 5-10 years...other than that, buy what you like and just use it.

 

[Zrob]

Well I am glad to see at least the 4S have competition now, and maybe this will spark the 4S builders to do a better job. I like fewer moving parts and a lighter package. On some smaller boats 4S just look way too big. Though I know 4S was a big step up from the old 2S. I think now the playing fields are level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYTzNVuEoU&feature=related

 

[CJBROWN]

I like how you think, richie rich.

 

[SoutheastFL]

And 3000hrs on a motor? Have yet to see one.....

1. Posted by katman2860:

"I take care of several 2002-2004 Yamaha F225's with over 8000hrs on them,2 charter boats with same F225's 4500-5000hrs,F115 and F150's 3500hrs plus,most of my hardcore fishing customers have Yamaha F225 and F150 pairs on 4- 5 year old boats with about 1500-2000 hours on there engines.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... ers-2.html


2. Posted by ras315:

"4-strokes getting 3000-4000 hours in commercial use is nothing at all. We see them all the time with over 4000 hours on crab boats. Got a 115 4-stroke suzi with around 6500+ right now. Numerous V-6 models on skiffs with over 5000 hours."

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... a-lol.html


3. And the same dealer about how reliable Suzukis are:

"I have sold over 750 suzukis in the last 5 years. Have had 4 powerhead failures. 2 were customer-at-fault, 1 was defective oil pump from factory, 2 had over 4800 hours on rentals."

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... e-6-a.html


Try getting this many hours and the same degree of reliability out of your etec.

 

[CJBROWN]

Hmmm...so southeastfl, you don't like E-tecs...

I don't really care either way. There are happy owners of each. E-tecs are relatively new in commercial use, with many new contracts with the govt and law agencies installing them on patrol and rescue boats. The coast guard is installing them by the hundreds under a new purchase agreement. I guess we'll find out down the road if they work out good for them or not. I would be curious to know for sure. They are also common on rental fleets, houseboats, etc. So with some digging you'll find similar hour reports for them. They certainly are not known for being unreliable.

I hadn't even considered the weight issue. Certainly for an older hull designed for lighter motors they would be a viable solution. If I had a early 265, or an Islander, with run out motors, they are what I would be looking at.

I take exception to some of your wild claims. Providing anecdotal experience, or stating documented facts is cool. But some of these, for example:

if having a 16 gal keg of 2S oil in your garage doesn't bother you be my guest, but I sure wouldn't want it sitting around as a potential fire hazard.

A fire hazard? Wouldn't the gas can for your lawnmower be more of a fire hazzard? And if you didn't want a 16 gallon keg, how 'bout gallons or cases of quarts. Doesn't really matter there. Once you fill your oil tank for your outboard you're good.

You'll either have to trust my figures or buy it yourself.

Such a friendly comment there. You're a real pal. You reference an article to support your claims, but no one can read it without paying for it? Ummm...okay.

...obviously they know the true market of what people want in an outboard engine and are abandoning the 2S market.

It wasn't customer demand that spurred the use of four-strokes, it was a way to comply with EPA regulations. The motors are heavier and more complicated, and require expensive service to keep them reliably running. That's not what customers asked for.

If you repower a GW with an etec you'll create an orphan of a boat...

There's another one. There are lots of boats out there with E-tecs on them. Just becase you don't like them doesn't mean they are 'orphans'.

I have often wondered why other outboard manufacturers don't use a similar long lasting gear lube in their engines and the only reason I can come up with is because its still not good for an engine.

Your reason to check more often is valid. Your claim that's it's still not good for an engine is not why the service interval is set by the manufacturer. It is what they determined would provide adequate change interval to keep the unit in service. Would I wait 300 hours? No, I would do it each year at the end of the season. It's just the wild claim that raises my eyebrows.

GW isn't dumb and there's a good reason why they only install 4S Yamahas, because they are better engines and people prefer them much more over any other 2S.

Another wild claim. Brunswick and Genmar use Mercs, I imagine half of them are two strokes. Does that mean they are dummer or smarter than GW?

Four stroke outboards also last alot longer. There are many reports of them going 3000 hours +, you don't see nearly as many 2S's seeing that many hours.

Yamaha definitely has some users with lots of hours - you found some good commercial examples. But here it seems like you're comparing them to the old style 2S's. It's like you're saying if you buy an E-tec it won't last as long. I have trouble with that claim.

I would not have taken so much exception if you had just prefaced or annotated your post with "I don't like E-tecs because..." and "These are my opinions." Instead you state everything as fact in a condescending manner. We're all pals here, fellow Grady owners, so you don't have to beat anyone over the head. Nobody is doubting your credibility, but your wild statements undermine the value of your opinion. If you were one of my buds I would just say "chill out dude."