Fischer panda problem

[Beast of Burden]

Hello and thanks in advance to all feedback. - My 2016 Fischer panda 4200 has developed a problem. It starts easily and runs great with or without load but out of the blue after 5-10 minutes it shuts down. No stuttering prior to shutdown - it is identical to pushing the stop button - it just turns off. So I have read a gazillion blog comments. No warning lights are on on prior to turning off . I changed the oil and it is perfect as it was before problem started. The cooling resevior is perfect/unchanged. I have fresh fuel and the shutoff is turned to on. I tried removing the fuel cap - no change. The fuel pump is "clicking " as always so I'm thinking unlikely the problem. Dang I am out of the menu of things I feel qualified to try before calling in the pros. Any help is appreciated.

 

[wspitler]

I assume you checked the generator light panel when it shut down to see if any of the warning lights illuminated. It will shut down for over temp, low oil pressure, overvoltage and under voltage and, I think, under frequency. All of these shut down by closing the fuel valve. If possible, try watching the voltage and the light panel when it shuts down. That may give you a clue as to why it shuts down. Does it happen under load, maybe when the AC compressor activates? If so, that can be caused by a problem in the voltage control box. Make sure you have good water flow out of the exhaust. Is the time it runs consistent? Dependent on load? It is likely that it is self protecting in some way! All it needs to run is fuel and air and it shuts down via turning off fuel. When was the fuel filter last changed? Hours on the engine? Good Luck!

 

[Fishtales]

How old is the fuel? Assume it is diesel? Can you run it down by running the genny for repeated 5-10 min runs or pump it out and then try new fuel.

 

[mhinch]

Sometimes, not always, the fuel shutoff solenoid will cause you a headache. I've had a Grasshopper with a Kubota diesel in it and it's shutoff solenoid had a mind of it's own. It was and older machine and I suspect it was a grounding or wiring issue in the switch. It's gone now and I'm glad.

 

[Beast of Burden]

There are no warning lights active when it shuts down - it starts rightn up and runs strong both without load or under full load and when it quits it is just as if you pushed the stop button. Exhaust water flow is strong. I agree it really seems like a fuel issue. Shut down is consistent between at about 6 minutes give or take 2. Shut down is not correlated to a load kicking in at all and voltage is steady when it is running. I took on about half tank of fuel 6 months ago so not terribly old but I guess I can't rule out bad fuel but I exercise it consistently an hour a month and its been fine since that last fueling until today. The unit only has 50 some hours on it and the only service has been a few oil changes. I'm thinking of changing out the fuel and fuel filter but it runs great for those 5 to 10 minutes and dies so suddenly that the fuel solenoid suggestion seems to fit the symptoms. If the fuel was bad wouldn't it start hard and run poorly from the get go? It starts right back up after shut down but again only runs for the 5 to 10 minutes.

 

[grady33]

I have the same year and last Summer mine was doing the same. Turned out to be clogged diesel fuel line coming from tank. Must be a filter or something down there. Dumped a bottle of fuel stabilizer and cleaned out the filter and ran the pump and was able to get it running good again. I had replaced the old fuel filter with one that has a bowl for draining any water. Worked great!

 

[Angler Management]

Thermostat. I can’t remember how I swapped it out except I had to disclocate my shoulder to get to it.

 

[HMBJack]

Mine did exactly what yours did - quit after 10 minutes or so of run time.

After about 9 months I finally figured out what the problem was.
It was a semi clogged Check Valve. The check valve sits on top of your remote fuel tank and has a barbed fitting on it leading to your bulkhead mounted fuel pump. What happens is corn flake sized gunk in the bottom of your fuel tank get sucked up into the check valve (it has a small ball in it) and prevents full flow of fuel to your generator. The fuel filter could be clean but the check valve is upstream of it and will only allow say 20% of the fuel through it. The fuel pump can't fully deliver the fuel needed to run beyond what is sitting in your fuel filter. Once the fuel in your fuel filter is consumed, you starve the FP and it quits.

So, it is easy to remove and check your check valve (aka anti-siphon valve). In my case, I changed to a newer fuel pump (a Facet #40185 as recommended by FP) and FP said the fuel pump has a built in electronic check valve. So, FP instructed me to remove the check valve on top of the tank and replace it with a regular barbed fitting. My FP runs like a champ now.

All this said - I also suggest you remove your fuel level valve on top of your 12G tank and have a look inside. I bet you'll see black corn flakes! If you do, it is best to remove the tank and clean it very very well.

Hope this helps...

 

[Beast of Burden]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm inclined start this project with initial assumption of a fuel issue, likely a partial blockage somewhere. IHMBJack I have 2 fuel fittings/lines coming out of the top of the tank. Both are square with threads coming out forming the 90s. Are these the check valves you are talking about. One has a shutoff and goes straight to a RACOR filter the other line disappears behind the tank. After going thru the RACOR the line with the shutoff then goes to the fuel pump. I'm not at all familiar with how diesel systems work. Is the other fuel line going to the genny forming a complete fuel loop? (tank vent line is a larger line that comes in along side the fill in the center of the tank and accompanys it back to the fill) So are the 2 fuel lines how the air bleed system works? . the procedure described in the manual seems to be to switch on the ignition and then hold in the black "override" button on the unit for 2 to 3 minutes . Is this running the fuel pump in order to push the air all the way back to the tank? Or where does the air go? My apology if this question is too basic or silly - this is the first diesel anything that I have owned.

 

[Angler Management]

Did you call the MFGR? I’ve spoken twice to a nice tech at FP. Florida I believe. Still sounds like the issue I had with my TStat.

 

[ElyseM]

contact them directly. if it is still under warranty get it on paper now. good luck, ron

 

[HMBJack]

"I have 2 fuel fittings/lines coming out of the top of the tank. Both are square with threads coming out forming the 90s. Are these the check valves you are talking about. One has a shutoff and goes straight to a RACOR filter the other line disappears behind the tank."

The fuel fitting on top of your tank that has the shutoff valve is the check valve.
The other one is the fuel return line. Diesel's move fuel in a circle. One fuel line feeds your Racor via the fuel pump and the other fuel line is simply returning fuel back into your tank from the generator.

You want to remove the hose clamp and fuel line on the check valve fitting (the one with the shutoff).
Then unscrew the fitting from the top of the tank.
Then rinse the fuel off of it and blow air through it. You should be able to easily blow air from the threaded end.
If it doesn't work perfectly, you have crud inside of it restricting the movement of the ball bearing in the check valve.
You can also shake it and hear the ball rattle back and forth. If it doesn't, it's gummed up.

Your FP has been in service for 6 years now. I think it likely you have some crud in the bottom of your tank which at least partially is plugging up your check valve.

 

[Beast of Burden]

Hi and thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry. So I had to take the boat in for service to the yamahas so I explained the genny issue to the service writer. They don't have a genny tech on site so they arranged for a visit while it was in their yard. So it turns out there was a bad electronic module. The good news was FP covered the part under warrantee ( one month shy of the 5 year expiration) but he tech site visit was suprisingly expensive. But it is now working fine. The tech remarked that the impellor housing was leaking and offered to schedule a return visit but I felt OK tackling that. The impellor kit with seals and gasket was about $35 dollars and worked great although the rear seals are different from OEM. If anyone needs help with a FP 4K impellor change just give me a shout!

 

[Doberman]

Hi and thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry. So I had to take the boat in for service to the yamahas so I explained the genny issue to the service writer. They don't have a genny tech on site so they arranged for a visit while it was in their yard. So it turns out there was a bad electronic module. The good news was FP covered the part under warrantee ( one month shy of the 5 year expiration) but he tech site visit was suprisingly expensive. But it is now working fine. The tech remarked that the impellor housing was leaking and offered to schedule a return visit but I felt OK tackling that. The impellor kit with seals and gasket was about $35 dollars and worked great although the rear seals are different from OEM. If anyone needs help with a FP 4K impellor change just give me a shout!

 

[Doberman]

Hello, I have identical issue on GW 305 with FP 4200, runs fine for 7 minutes than stalls out. My quest is did the tech who replaced the control module tell you why it could run for that period of time even though it was faulty? Second do you have a FP part number for that module. I’d like to know how you got to the impeller, I lost a lot of skin on both hands getting to those tiny wing nuts, maybe you have more room on the 330, than the 305 has.

 

[Harrysea]

I think there are a lot of us who have several of those wingnuts residing at the bottom of the generator housing where we have dropped them over time. Having said that, my 2006 Fischer-Panda still runs great.

 

[Doberman]

I think there are a lot of us who have several of those wingnuts residing at the bottom of the generator housing where we have dropped them over time. Having said that, my 2006 Fischer-Panda still runs great.

 

[Doberman]

Just to close the loop, FP 4200 running great again. Found debris from tank blocking flow in separator/filter, all is well!

 

[HMBJack]

Good job Doberman!

That debris is almost unavoidable. It just seems to collect, grow, in the tank. I have a tight and well sealed fuel cap and still see crap in my filter every 80 hours when I change oil.

7 minutes run time is about how long the FP will run from small amount of fuel in the filter and fuel lines until it starves out. Keep this in mind if it happens again. Nothing to do with electronics. Simply fuel starvation...

I can't emphasize enough to periodically change the fuel filter and toss that check valve on top of the tank (see my post above). The little one cylinder FP is very sensitive to any sort of fuel starvation from debris or water.