Fuel line may be bad

[Lt.Mike]

I took the time today to fog the outboard, do a general cleanup and get a better idea of what needs attention.
A couple of days back I popped the deck plate over the tank and saw this. I was surprised to see the fuel line looking swollen like this.

That looked bad didn't it? Wait it gets better :wink:
This is what the fuel line looks like in the bilge. Not too bad. Needs replacing but not terrible.

Then I pulled the deck hatch over the tank to see what the big picture was... and wow!
have you ever seen a fuel line this bad?

I'm at a loss for words.

When this gets replaced i'm going to have to hang this on the wall of my garage. :lol: Wow!

The fuel fill hose doesn't look like it'll be staying either.

 

[DennisG01]

Considering yourself lucky goes almost without saying - that is certainly strange. Is your fuel line all one hose - or is there a barb connector between the bad one and the good one? I'm curious if that bad section is a separate hose and someone, somewhere along the line, installed an inferior quality hose or a non-fuel rated hose.

Be sure to double clamp when installing new hose - and orient each clamp 180* to each other (and re-orient one of the clamps on the fill hose, too).

 

[Pez Vela]

I'm at a loss for words.

I think Dennis is on to something, while I, generally, am just on something. I'm sure other folks will add a few choice words, like: "fuel tank" "pressure test" "replace" and "thousands."

 

[DennisG01]

I think Dennis is on to something, while I, generally, am just on something.

I actually did "LOL" at that one!

And, wow, I completely overlooked the actual tank, Pez... Good call. It looks like some fisherman hauled it up in his net from sitting on the ocean floor for 18 years.

EDIT: Looking at this a bit closer, it appears the the nastiest tank corrosion is centering around the sending unit and the funky hose. Someone obviously changed the SU's wire sometime as you can see the original pink one there (SU wires are pink). I won't say that this is what caused the problem, but it at least begs the question of what type of wire was used.

 

[Lt.Mike]

This is a new purchase for me (about a week now) and I made plans to check and change things like this before I put the boat into service.
The large fill line is one long line from fill to the tank. Its cracked badly in the bilge but in by the tank it looks pretty good. The line from the sender to the fuel filter is one continuous line and is the opposite being bad by the tank and better in the bilge. This when it pays to be a motor head checking stuff like this before taking it out on the water.
I just have never seen a line this bad or could never have imagined one would come apart like this. Figured I'd share.
Incidentally the fuel tank was coated with grease and is good. If it develops a problem a replacement can be had for around $400. I checked into that before buying the boat and factored that into my decision as to what I'd offer.
The lines will be around $100 and labor, well that will be $0. No thousands here, :wink: not when you can do the work yourself.
Once this is done I'll get the boats electrical work squared away redoing some of the prior owners handiwork.

 

[Pez Vela]

I just have never seen a line this bad or could never have imagined one would come apart like this. Figured I'd share.

The pics are interesting, I'll say that. Thank you for sharing.

 

[lime4x4]

i agree a poor quality hose was used or one that wasn't rated for ethanol.. I'm doing the samething over the winter replacing all fuel fill and feed hoses and replacing all the wiring as well on my offshore 24

 

[wrxhoon]

Looks like ethanol at work, nasty stuff, I never use that crap in any boat or car for that matter.

 

[VeroWing]

I'd take a very close look at that tank too. From the pics it looks like some galvanic corrosion or acid type thing is going on there. I've changed old fuel lines before, but I've never seen anything like the ones on your boat.

 

[DennisG01]

If that's grease on the top of the tank, that's the strangest looking grease I've ever seen. Are you saying that the area has a bunch of "crap" caught up in the grease?

But, let's say the owner gooped up that area with grease - that could also explain the goofy looking hose. Grease is not good for rubber lines and if that was just a regular rubber hose, that could definitely cause that problem - although I've never personally seen it quite that bad.

 

[Lt.Mike]

The entire tank had been rubbed down with grease (clean and tan color)and aside from the immeadiate area around the sender it appears free of corrosion for the better most part. The crust around the sender resembled rock salt and was certanly something I would rather have not had. The tank under the corrosion was affected slightly. After cleanup I bathed it with left over fogging oil. I will be popping the deck plates on every outing keeping a close eye on it in the up coming season. I'm also giving serious consideration to vapor sensor for the bilge.
If It does leak, well like I said, I factored the price of a replacement tank into the deal I made on the boat. Its just one of those things that needs replacing sooner or later.
Beside sharing this as a curiosity I had hoped that this was an example of a "out of sight, out of mind" kind of thing and may provoke other owners to get in deep into thier boats to find problems like this before it becomes a much bigger problem.
Obviously the prior owners of my boat never gave the fuel lines any thought. :roll:

 

[Lt.Mike]

Ok I've been giving this alot of thought and I believe I've found what caused the line to fail like it did.
:hmm
Going on these clues, the tank only shows corrosion immediately under the deck plate, and the hose is fine on the other side of the bulkhead separating the tank from the bilge. So it is reasonable to assume it wasn't from the fuel or the whole length of the line would be affected. The hose in the bilge wasn't exposed to something the hose at the tank was. The area affected is directly under the deck plate so I can assume the problem came from something through the plate opening.
I remembered the owner telling me about a product he used to clean the boat saying it worked really well...but don't get any on you because its nasty stuff! That product was On & Off Hull/Bottom Cleaner.
I'm almost certain he used it to clean the deck too. If that leaked through the old deck plate and sat undisturbed it most certainly would have resulted in the damage I have.
This really had me bugged but I think that this explains it.

 

[DennisG01]

I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to post this for the "check out those hidden areas" reason. That was a great, timely reminder.

And, I'm also very curious about the cause of that issue. BUT, I don't believe this was caused by On/Off - for two reasons. One, the owner would of had to of had the deck plate off each time he washed the deck and (this is just my thought process) that doesn't sound like a logical thing to do. Two, let's say he did have the deck plate off... he probably would have stopped using the On/Off after the very first time since Hydrochloric Acid (active ingredient in On/Off) reacts (and can do it violently) with aluminum. If he had been using On/Off on a regular basis, there would not be a gas tank left. HCl won't react with the gelcoat or plastic deck plate - but even if it leaked through just a little at a time, there would be, at a bare minimum, holes in the tank -- which the smell of gasoline would of been easily noticeable and you would of found those holes very easily.

Also, HCl doesn't react with rubber (at least not to any measurable extent from my experience using it), nor does it react with Viton... which is another material that the hose may be made of (are there others? I'm not sure).

The "rock salt" may be exactly that - accumulation of years of salt from salt water drying out (if, of course, this boat was used in/around salt water).

FYI, aluminum will "self protect" if it's clean and left alone. Issues will only happen if it sits in water (with no air gaps) such as the bottom of a tank that sits on a piece of wood that gets/stays wet.

Either way, you still have me curious!

 

[DennisG01]

OK, here's another theory - and bear with me because I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this one! Take a look at the rubber line where it attaches to the pipe-to-barb fitting coming out of the tank. Notice that the hose looks pretty good until the hose is no longer "on" the fitting? And that the hose gets progressively worse as it gets further from the fitting? After the hose gets past the edge of the tank, how long till it starts to look good again? I'm wondering... if maybe it really wasn't the grease that the owner used to coat the tank. The hose would obviously being making the most continuous contact with the tank at the corner of the tank and then progressively less as it gets away from it.

And, like you mentioned above, it's very weird that the fill hose has the opposite effect.

 

[JeffN]

It does look like whatever screwed up the tank came through the deck plate. When I redid my fuel tank deck I replaced the deck plates. When you are repairing things I would at least treat the deck plates to new O rings. I would replace personally. I think the on and off theory has some merit. I replaced my hoses a couple of years ago, pain in the butt job but well worth the effort.

 

[Lt.Mike]

I fully intend to nickle and dime myself on all the little things like hoses, clamps, hinges, yes and deck plates. That was expected from the start. Going after all the little stuff that gets put off but can ruin your day.
Some of the wiring looks like it had the past two owners hands in there too. I can be really anal about these kind of things and will be redoing it all properly. Incidentally there are the start of holes pitted into the tank under the deck plate but I think I caught it in time. I'm thinking that he used the on and off for what it was intended for over the years but when the boat went up for sale he used it for some stubborn stains in the deck.
As for the grease all over the tank I think now it is white silicon moly lube that has just aged to tan. Haven't seen that done before but aside from the spot spoken of, the rest of the tank is clear of any issue so I can't speak against the idea.
Oh and the worst of the hose is under where the o-ring seal would be on the plate. Where it connects to the tank is centered under the plate. Whatever ate the hose would certainly eat the o-ring seal too.
Tomorrow I'm going to drop a piece of fuel line in a jar with the on and off to soak. Got to satisfy my curiosity. :wink:

Going back in the forum I saw an earlier post an owner told of his deck fish box drain lines cracking and taking on water into the bilge in rough seas. Thats another thing for me to check and I'm sure that won't be the easiest thing to service. :roll: His post was one to pay heed to and brought my attention to something I probably wouldn't have thought of until it became a problem. So on that, my thanks goes to him.
At the moment I'm trying to find an affordable solution to replacing the broken plastic vent window pulls. $20 a pair for every other brand boat, $100 for Grady.
I bring myself to waste money like that.

 

[DennisG01]

I hear 'ya on the nickel and dime thing. But, like you, I agree that it's often these little things that can ruin a day. As far as the electrical stuff and previous owners... Oh boy - that can sometimes be a real mess!!! And trying to chase down a little electrical gremlin while out on the water... :-|

The reason I mention I don't think On/Off did this is that I've used straight Muriatic acid (higher concentration of HCl) for few things on, in and around a boat/engine. I've even had rubber immersed in Muriatic acid for about 4 hours at a time with no ill effects. HCl will react with aluminum almost immediately. Obviously anybody that cleans something with On/Off is also going to then rinse it with water right away. I know for a fact that grease can deteriorate rubber, but I'm only guessing that that is a possible cause in this case.

As far as the grease on the tank thing - no, I didn't mean to say that it's a "bad" idea, just that it's not necessary and in the future you can save some time by not keeping up with reapplying it. Without the grease the aluminum will form a natural oxidizing layer that will serve to protect it.

I'm at work right now and looked in one of my supplier catalogs... do either of these look like they'll work? If so, you can probably just google them to find out more info and/or buy them (the prices listed are full retail - you can get them for less).

 

[Lt.Mike]

Thanks Dennis, I've been looking at both or those vent pulls and they have subtle differences from the Grady piece. The sea dog unit is closest and i may be able to make that work with a little effort. I used to work in a factory about 30 years ago that made things like this and know a few tricks when it comes to nylon parts.
Mike.

 

[DennisG01]

If you end up doing some modification, please share. I'm always looking to learn something new!

 

[Lt.Mike]

Will do. I'll add that when I do little mods like this my ultimate goal is to make it look like it came that way from the factory. If someone can't tell its my work thats my biggest compliment.
Mike.