Fuel Removal

[Gianni]

So as some of you may know trying to help me for quite some time. Ive been having a lot of water issues with my boat- is it possible I have a leak or opening somewhere, when the shrink wrap comes off I will be asking your opinions on possible water intrusion points.

So what I thought of and wondered, could I pay a company to suck out my tanks? Well I did find one, may not be a cheap option but at least I know once I eliminate any intrusion points, I will ensure at a minimum the gas I put it in from a street station will be clean as can be.

Just thought id throw this out there if people experienced similar issues.

Its worth a shot- my son is getting older and told me "daddy why does the boat keep going "beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppp "....I think this is the year I finally get to the bottom of this once and for all. Buying a new boat is out of the question for now.

Thanks to everyone who has always been helpful!

 

[Uncle Joe]

Clean out your fuel tanks? You can surely do that yourself with a minimum of equipment, I would think? I used to have a pump that attached to a drill. One hose in and one hose out. The impeller housing was all rubber/plastic and the fuel never passed anywhere near the power source. It worked for me.....unless I am not understanding your issue?

 

[DennisG01]

It's definitely something that can be done at home, with the proper precautions. That's 100% your call on whether you feel comfortable with it. You can transfer the fuel to a clean container, let it settle, then transfer the good fuel to another container and either put it in your cars or back into the boat once the tank is good. But make sure you use a combustible fuel rated pump. Joe, those typical drill/rotary pumps are NOT rated for fuel - check them out - they usually specifically say NOT rated. Of course, this doesn't mean you will have a problem, but you COULD make a boom-boom. Best not to tempt fate - especially with something where you may not get a second chance.

Gianni - have you thought about putting a zipper door in your shrink wrap and working on this over the winter? You could at least pull the hatch and check the tank out. Maybe clean up the area real well so you can take a better look at it. There's only a few ways for water to get in - corrosion on tank, fuel fill fitting, possibly condensation, vent (although unlikely).

 

[hinmo]

Drained somewhere in the vicintiy of 150 gals when I winterized my Marlin (dont ask why....but I did anyway). Had a rig I borrowed from my local boatyard....a automotive type fuel pump hooked to a 10 mic filter. Powered the rig with a jump pack. Filled 5-6 gal portable jugs. Used in our cars. Took several trips/days. Connected at the input to the fuel filter internal to the engine with correct adapters.

 

[Gianni]

To answer some of the questions above:

Reason i want to thoroughly clean it out is that my reserve tank is full and i havent used it in years- thats my fault because of fear of water building up over time.

I have done the removal of fuel before and put it into containers- separate it or what not. Im not too fond of doing it again, Im concerned of a "boom" and also where to dispose of water "legally". Regardless if its water, it does have gas in it and not sure where i would dispose of it. Want to avoid any issues. I also dont want to leave large amounts of fuel around and become responsible for some crazy situation. I just find it to be the safest alternative.

someone commented: There's only a few ways for water to get in - corrosion on tank, fuel fill fitting, possibly condensation, vent (although unlikely). I do want to replace all deck plate o rings.

I dont know if my tanks are corroted. I have a '99 sailfish, if im not mistaken those tanks should not rot out.

I did want to ask guys where i would buy a new fuel fitting assembly, mine looks a little worn and want to replace it anyhow to keep elimintating possible causes.

As for condensation, I have been guilty of not adding additives during the season although the boat was used pretty often. This year ill be sure to add whatever needs be to avoid issues.

 

[DennisG01]

I didn't mean that your tank "is" corroded. But you have an aluminum tank, right? If so, then corrosion is a possibility.

Which "fuel fitting assembly" are you referring to?

 

[seasick]

The comment about how water gets in left out one common source; Water in the gas you put in. Yup, that happens and more so at marinas that don't pump a lot of gas and/or marinas that pump very little during the winter.

That said, condensation in my experiences is not a big contributor to water intrusion. Only in areas where the ambient temps swing from warmish to really hot ( think Florida) can condensation be a measurable contributor.

9 out of 10 times, water in gas problems are related to water intrusion at the fuel filler hardware based on what I have seen historically at my club.

I store my boat with a low amount of gas. I don't buy the fill the tank theory and the reason is that if in the spring there is bad gas in my tank, I have a lot less to get rid of. ( 12 years so far without issues). Getting rid of gas legally is quite expensive. The funny thing is that there are folks that will take your 'old' gas for free since they know that more often than not, it is perfectly usable.

In many cases, some water gets into the tank. Ethanol (10%) will adsorb about 1/2 % by volume so for a 100 gallon tank, you could in theory add 2 quarts of water and not have any on the bottom of the tank.
Depending on the geometry of your tank and the height of the pickup off of the bottom, you can have gallons of water in the bottom of the tank and not know it. Only when the water level gets high enough for the pickup to suck up the water do you get into trouble. The point is that a little water can seep in and over a period of time become 'deep' enough to to be a problem.

The best gas treatment one can do is to add fresh gas regularly based on your trip usage. In that way, gas doesn't sit a long time and more importantly small amounts of water in the tank will be absorbed up by the fresh gas( assuming it's has ethanol).

 

[Gianni]

I didn't mean that your tank "is" corroded. But you have an aluminum tank, right? If so, then corrosion is a possibility.

Which "fuel fitting assembly" are you referring to?

My father just informed me that it’s aluminum tank..
He doesn’t think it can be corroded because we would see a loss of fuel in that area- does that make sense..

What I mean by fuel fill assembly:: where you actual put the fuel nozzle into.

 

[Gianni]

The comment about how water gets in left out one common source; Water in the gas you put in. Yup, that happens and more so at marinas that don't pump a lot of gas and/or marinas that pump very little during the winter.

That said, condensation in my experiences is not a big contributor to water intrusion. Only in areas where the ambient temps swing from warmish to really hot ( think Florida) can condensation be a measurable contributor.

9 out of 10 times, water in gas problems are related to water intrusion at the fuel filler hardware based on what I have seen historically at my club.

I store my boat with a low amount of gas. I don't buy the fill the tank theory and the reason is that if in the spring there is bad gas in my tank, I have a lot less to get rid of. ( 12 years so far without issues). Getting rid of gas legally is quite expensive. The funny thing is that there are folks that will take your 'old' gas for free since they know that more often than not, it is perfectly usable.

In many cases, some water gets into the tank. Ethanol (10%) will adsorb about 1/2 % by volume so for a 100 gallon tank, you could in theory add 2 quarts of water and not have any on the bottom of the tank.
Depending on the geometry of your tank and the height of the pickup off of the bottom, you can have gallons of water in the bottom of the tank and not know it. Only when the water level gets high enough for the pickup to suck up the water do you get into trouble. The point is that a little water can seep in and over a period of time become 'deep' enough to to be a problem.

The best gas treatment one can do is to add fresh gas regularly based on your trip usage. In that way, gas doesn't sit a long time and more importantly small amounts of water in the tank will be absorbed up by the fresh gas( assuming it's has ethanol).

That’s what I meant in my comment- the fuel filler piece- where do I get a new piece and is it identical to the existing?

 

[drbatts]

I had a fuel issue a few years ago. My local marina quoted me $10/gallon to have the fuel pumped out and disposed of. What I ended up doing was buying a small fuel transfer pump off amazon, and pumping out the tank while the boat was out of the water for the winter. I pumped it out into a few portable containers and ended up using it in the the lawn tractors/leaf blower etc. all of which all ran fine on it. Not sure where you live but our town dump also has a hazardous waste day for residents in which they will take old fuel, which would be another way of disposing of it.

 

[Gianni]

I had a fuel issue a few years ago. My local marina quoted me $10/gallon to have the fuel pumped out and disposed of. What I ended up doing was buying a small fuel transfer pump off amazon, and pumping out the tank while the boat was out of the water for the winter. I pumped it out into a few portable containers and ended up using it in the the lawn tractors/leaf blower etc. all of which all ran fine on it. Not sure where you live but our town dump also has a hazardous waste day for residents in which they will take old fuel, which would be another way of disposing of it.

I don’t believe my boro has a place to bring old fuel.

I think I’ll need to fill a lot of containers to empty our boat. This may be my only option

 

[SkunkBoat]

Drained somewhere in the vicintiy of 150 gals when I winterized my Marlin (dont ask why....but I did anyway). Had a rig I borrowed from my local boatyard....a automotive type fuel pump hooked to a 10 mic filter. Powered the rig with a jump pack. Filled 5-6 gal portable jugs. Used in our cars. Took several trips/days. Connected at the input to the fuel filter internal to the engine with correct adapters.

Exactly! Universal electric fuel pump at auto parts store. It can connect to your boat or car battery. Disconnect fuel line from motor & rig it in. If you don't already have one, I would add a 10 micron filter/water separator with clear plastic bowl. Then you can see if you are pumping water. With it rigged this way you don't need to store lots of gas. Just keep going back and pump what you can use in a car or lawn equipment until you empty the tank. ( All the worst stuff in the tank will still be there below the pickup tube)

As for the amount to normally leave in the tank... when I had a 60 gal tank I filled it for the winter. Now that I have 250 gal, I left them near empty.

My guess as to where you got the water is the gasket on your fuel fill or its getting in the vent (when you spray the boat down).

 

[DennisG01]

My father just informed me that it’s aluminum tank..
He doesn’t think it can be corroded because we would see a loss of fuel in that area- does that make sense..

What I mean by fuel fill assembly:: where you actual put the fuel nozzle into.

Fuel would only leak out if the hole was below the level of the fuel. If the hole is on top (not rare, by any means) it's unlikely to leak out very much, if at all.

Post a pic of the fuel fill deck plate. It's unlikely you need a new one - just replace the o-ring. But they are available many places - easiest, of course, is your local Grady dealer. Can you easily get to the underside of the fill to access the nuts?

 

[drbatts]

The best way to pump the tank out is to remove the fuel sender and pump from there. That way you can pump the entire tank out as well as get a good visual as to what the inside of the tank looks like. The transfer pump I used had a weighted hose so I cold easily get it to the lowest part of the tank. Another option/trick would be to attach a pipe to the end of the intake hose for the pump which you could then angle down to the bottom of the tank. If you are going to take the time and effort to pump out the tank, pump it completely empty and start from scratch with new fuel.

Another disposal option would be to place an ad on craiglist for free fuel. I see this done frequently.

 

[Gianni]

I guess im using the wrong term when it comes to fuel fill... What im trying to say is where you exactly put the nozzle (gas cap) into the boat while fueling, that "spout mount" is replaceable? I dont see an o ring that can be replaced when you twist off the gas cap. I believe that may be a point of intrusion. I am not aware of where our vent is to make sure its not getting in that way either...

 

[suzukidave]

i am interested in any links folks have either to inexpensive pumps or inline filters they have used with success. i'd love to get a rig for this.

i have done this with regular fuel line and establishing a siphon flow into a tank at a lower height with the bulb, but it doesn't maintain flow if you introduce a racor water separator and i found a small inline filter kept plugging and does not handle the water, so i ended up with unfiltered gas i had to give to my farmer neighbour (who happily ran it through his old tractor). i'd love to dewater and filter it to the point you could run it in cars instead. the advice i got is as long as the water is gone old gas can be safely disposed of in a car at a 50/50 ratio to premium gas. put 1/4 tank of premium in, then half a tank of old gas, then fill it with premium.

for those suggesting draining into single fuel containers, those are 5 gallons each, so 100 gallons is 20 containers, which is spendy to buy plus it is hard to safely store that much gas or use it quickly, and i would not risk running it in any small motor like a lawnmower. to me that's asking for carb trouble or worse.

 

[wspitler]

In newer boats the vent is incorporated in the fill itself versus a separate line vented on the side of the hull. All fills that I have dealt with have an O-ring. Check closely.

 

[drbatts]

i am interested in any links folks have either to inexpensive pumps or inline filters they have used with success. i'd love to get a rig for this.

i have done this with regular fuel line and establishing a siphon flow into a tank at a lower height with the bulb, but it doesn't maintain flow if you introduce a racor water separator and i found a small inline filter kept plugging and does not handle the water, so i ended up with unfiltered gas i had to give to my farmer neighbour (who happily ran it through his old tractor). i'd love to dewater and filter it to the point you could run it in cars instead. the advice i got is as long as the water is gone old gas can be safely disposed of in a car at a 50/50 ratio to premium gas. put 1/4 tank of premium in, then half a tank of old gas, then fill it with premium.

for those suggesting draining into single fuel containers, those are 5 gallons each, so 100 gallons is 20 containers, which is spendy to buy plus it is hard to safely store that much gas or use it quickly, and i would not risk running it in any small motor like a lawnmower. to me that's asking for carb trouble or worse.

https://www.gastapper.com/store/p1/...Free_Priority_2-3_USPS_shipping_included.html

This is what I have/used.

 

[seasick]

If you don't see a gasket (O-ring) on the filler cap, look for a groove. If you see a one, it probably means that the O-ring is missing.

 

[Halfhitch]

https://www.amazon.com/MegaFlint-Un...&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=inline+fuel+pump&psc=1

This type of pump is all you need. Just remove the fuel line from the "in" side of your fuel/water separator and connect the pump into that line . If the fuel does not flow, you may have to remove the "anti-siphon" valve from the tank elbow. Put a funnel with a water screen in it into your container of choice and pump into that. The gas that comes out of that
screened funnel will burn just fine in most any engine.

Once you have pumped this way till it sucks air you can remove the fuel sender and put an extended hose from the suction side of the inline pump to the very bottom of your tank to get every last bit of fuel.