Fuel tank Question. 1998 GW 272 Sailfish

[Papa J]

I may need to replace my tanks. 150 gal. and a 52 gal.

Been getting a little fuel in the bilge but not sure where it's coming from.

I replaced all the accessible fuel lines and racors and thought I may have spilled a little when doing so.

All of the lines are accessible except the front tank fill which is on the top of the tank.

The front tank is relatively empty. The boat is sitting at bow downward angle in my driveway.

Not sure if that really has anything to do with it.

Both tanks are inline and easy to get to and should be easy to pull.

If I do need new tanks would you recommend 1 big tank or same configuration?

If possible I will probably increase capacity if room.

Setup for twin outboards which I don't think makes a difference.

 

[seasick]

I may need to replace my tanks. 150 gal. and a 52 gal.

Been getting a little fuel in the bilge but not sure where it's coming from.

I replaced all the accessible fuel lines and racors and thought I may have spilled a little when doing so.

All of the lines are accessible except the front tank fill which is on the top of the tank.

The front tank is relatively empty. The boat is sitting at bow downward angle in my driveway.

Not sure if that really has anything to do with it.

Both tanks are inline and easy to get to and should be easy to pull.

If I do need new tanks would you recommend 1 big tank or same configuration?

If possible I will probably increase capacity if room.

Setup for twin outboards which I don't think makes a difference.

Small pinhole leaks are common and often occur on the bottom where the tank site on the mounting stringers. The bad news is that you can't see them unless you pull the tank.
With respect to two wanks, there are many advantages to two tanks. If you fill each at different times and you happen to get a bad load of fuels, only one gets contaminated. If you guess your fuel load incorrectly and run out, you have a backup. The trim of the boat can be played with by using one tank over the other in some cases. In rougher seas, it may help to have more weight forward assuming that is where the aux tank is located. With one big tank, you can't play with the 'ballast'
Down side is that you need to switch tank feeds every now and then and refill with fresh gas.
Regarding twin motors, two vs one tank is not an issue in general but the number of fuel pickups and the valving to switch is. I am not sure how your aux tank is plumbed.

 

[DennisG01]

Ditto to what Seasick said. The many benefits of dual tanks far outweigh any minor disadvantages. Another advantage is that if you have an issue with one tank, you still have another. Kinda like having two batteries - there's one is reserve, if needed.

 

[Harpoon]

I think a pressure test will confirm if you need a new tank. But if you have liquid gasoline in the bilge one of them is probably gone. I did have a boat years ago that was leaking at the sender gasket. Best to rule that out... Sunshine tanks in Venice seams to be the go-to guy for replacement tanks

 

[Sharkbait282]

I'd recommend contacting Grady White, because they should have the design schematic that identifies how much space you're playing with. If you pulled out a 150 gallon and a 50 gallon tank, I can tell you right away that the 1999 or 2000 transom re-worked 272, or maybe first year 282 went to 70 gallons and 150 gallons for the two tanks.

BUT (huge but) that critically depends on the dimensions of the tanks and the placements of the bulkhead layout, and any adjustments Grady made to the placement of the holding tank, water tank, and related bulkheads. If you aren't going to go with stock replacement measurements, I'd recommend getting professional help to get the size of the new tanks right.

 

[Papa J]

Well definitely have a hole. Both tanks pulled and having a fabricator make a template to see how big a single tank we can get in there.

I am not sold on the the whole 2 tank redundancy thing.

Not fishing the bearing sea, its southern cal and northern baja mex.

Have an epirb, boat us and plenty of friends i buddy boat with.

All the smaller boats I have ever owned they have always had a single tank.

Not to mention if I get bad gas then it's going in both tanks because when I fill I fill all tanks. When I burn fuel I would switch back and forth anyway.

Plus I have enough filters and racors that it should catch just about everything anyway.

 

[DennisG01]

Well, every one can certainly do what they feel is best for them, but I think it would be good to rethink this. Sure, one tank will be less expensive, but think about it this way... small boats have one, small tank. That's all they need and all that space will allow. As boats get bigger and have twin engines, at some point manufacturer's start using two tanks. If one tank would be favorable, I'm sure they would do it as it would be less $$. But most people (and honestly, you're probably the first that I, personally, have heard say they prefer one tank over two) would balk at a larger boat having only one tank. Again, do as you wish, but you've gotten some good replies here as to why two are better.

 

[Finest Kind]

As stated above, go with TWO new tanks! Why would you want to make your boat LESS safe?

 

[Peahead]

Papa J,

"If I do need new tanks would you recommend 1 big tank or same configuration?"

Same configuration - 2 tanks. From my experience (even in a much smaller Grady ( 228G)) I am absolutely 100% thankful I got my 228 with the aux tank option - For All the reasons mentioned above. I find it a bit odd though that you ask for advice on this but then when the advice is given ( and very much weighted in favour of 2 tanks) you write a huge list of reasons why you (seem) completely against the idea.......so seems odd you would ask then ?

 

[Papa J]

I asked because with all the "it will be safer" comments no one stated how it's safer except for ballast.

Which you really cant control in a timely fashion. it's not like you can pump from one tank to another.

And as far as bad fuel. hardly happens and filters prevent most problems but also when I fill up I would top off both thanks.

As far as having aux tank for fuel, if you don't know how to manage your fuel whether you have 1, 2 , or 10 tanks you shouldn't be out in the ocean.

I asked to see if there was a physical detriment of anyone that had gone to a single tank.

So if your confused to why I ask this it the reason.

now i understand that when this boat was built it was 1998, so the same thought process may not apply.

I also spoke with Grady and they said they had a lot of 272 owners and other models convert to 1 single tank very successfully.

They actually asked for pictures and contact information of the fabricator so they could recommend to customers that wanted to do the same project.

The tank being built will actually hold about 10 more gallons and is being made of .25 aluminum. Not the 1/8" stuff the OEM put in.

Papa J,

"If I do need new tanks would you recommend 1 big tank or same configuration?"

Same configuration - 2 tanks. From my experience (even in a much smaller Grady ( 228G)) I am absolutely 100% thankful I got my 228 with the aux tank option - For All the reasons mentioned above. I find it a bit odd though that you ask for advice on this but then when the advice is given ( and very much weighted in favour of 2 tanks) you write a huge list of reasons why you (seem) completely against the idea.......so seems odd you would ask then ?

 

[Finest Kind]

On long offshore trips when I WILL be using a hundred plus gallons, I'll run the 75 gal Aux tank down first, (mounted to the rear, the main tank is closer to midships on my Trophy Pro) then start to use the 150 gal main.
This helps by removing excess weight off the stern, and is the the "Ballast" advantage when you have two tanks as mentioned above.

But the most important advantage to using two tanks is the SAFETY ADVANTAGE you get by using good FUEL USAGE MANAGEMENT. Unless you are making fishing trips out to the offshore canyons every week, I cant see how you are going to burn 200 plus gallons from one tank in a timely fashion!

GAS GOES BAD sitting in your tank for any length of time. Especially Ethanol, if that is what you have to use locally.
http://articles.boattrader.com/ethanol- ... t-engines/

I had to replace a couple of injectors a couple of years ago (under warranty) that failed due to bad gas.
To avoid any future problems I now MANAGE my gas usage WITH BOTH TANKS by adding gas as needed to each tank on an ALTERNATE BASIS. In other words, I'll add 50 to the Aux, burn that, then gas up again with another 50 gallons, but this time I'll add it to the Main. Next time gas is needed it goes into the Aux....and on and on.
This way, I'm always burning relatively fresh gas and chances for Phase Separation of what WAS good gas when it was pumped-in are minimal.

 

[Finest Kind]

Just so you all know, this ties in with discussion above....I just helped my buddy pump out 150 gallons of BAD GAS from his main tank last night. (the aux was ok) from his 1987 Grady Trophy Pro. Cost him $450 plus tax to get it pumped out and properly disposed of.
The gas went bad to due PHASE SEPARATION that developed over winter storage...despite his adding gas "stabilizers" to the tanks last fall.

I spoke with the operator of the pump out and disposal truck (Tonks in Toms River NJ), he said he was scheduled to pump out another 1500 gallons of BAD GAS from 10 other boats tomorrow!
So, this is a common problem...modern gas with ethanol SUCKS and does not store well, even with additives. You need to USE IT....and use it FAST!

For storage over any length of time, best practice IMO is to leave the tanks as close to empty as possible. Much better to have only 5 gallons of bad gas to pump out and dispose of instead of 200+!

So PapaJ, (I hope its not too late and you didn't get that one tank fabricated) as you can see it's better to have TWO tanks and use them as described in the posts above...one large tank with 200+ gallons is a problem waiting to happen.

 

[seasick]

Just so you all know, this ties in with discussion above....I just helped my buddy pump out 150 gallons of BAD GAS from his main tank last night. (the aux was ok) from his 1987 Grady Trophy Pro. Cost him $450 plus tax to get it pumped out and properly disposed of.
The gas went bad to due PHASE SEPARATION that developed over winter storage...despite his adding gas "stabilizers" to the tanks last fall.

I spoke with the operator of the pump out and disposal truck (Tonks in Toms River NJ), he said he was scheduled to pump out another 1500 gallons of BAD GAS from 10 other boats tomorrow!
So, this is a common problem...modern gas with ethanol SUCKS and does not store well, even with additives. You need to USE IT....and use it FAST!

For storage over any length of time, best practice IMO is to leave the tanks as close to empty as possible. Much better to have only 5 gallons of bad gas to pump out and dispose of instead of 200+!

So PapaJ, (I hope its not too late and you didn't get that one tank fabricated) as you can see it's better to have TWO tanks and use them as described in the posts above...one large tank with 200+ gallons is a problem waiting to happen.

Gee, I haven't read a rant about ethanol gas in a while Every spring, one or two boats at my club have water issues and it almost always due to water intrusion, not condensation. How do we know?
Simple, the tanks are drained, filled with fresh gas and after the next heavy rain, the owners have the same problem
Although E10 can suffer phase separation, it rarely occurs unless there is a lot of water in the gas. Stabilizer isn't going to do much if there is a lot of water water, neither will water separating filters. As soon as you said the part about the problem occurring after winter storage, I suspected water intrusion. Often it gets in through bad o-rings on the fuel filler caps. I have seem E10 gas left in tanks for 3 years and still be usable. I know several owners of commercial business with older trucks who chuckle when someone asks to get rid of OLD gas.

On another topic, I have posted my thoughts on winter storage and I am not one who recommends filling the tank for the winter. I leave mine relatively empty. That way if water does get in, I have 20 gallons of gas to get rid of instead of a full tank. In the spring, after prep, I start the engine with the almost empty tank. It it runs OK and it has for 11 years, I then add new fuel to freshen it up. One caveat:
I fuel with Valvetek gas which does have additives for the marine environment. I only add Stabil for winter layup, one ounce per gallon.

 

[Finest Kind]

Just so you all know, this ties in with discussion above....I just helped my buddy pump out 150 gallons of BAD GAS from his main tank last night. (the aux was ok) from his 1987 Grady Trophy Pro. Cost him $450 plus tax to get it pumped out and properly disposed of.
The gas went bad to due PHASE SEPARATION that developed over winter storage...despite his adding gas "stabilizers" to the tanks last fall.

I spoke with the operator of the pump out and disposal truck (Tonks in Toms River NJ), he said he was scheduled to pump out another 1500 gallons of BAD GAS from 10 other boats tomorrow!
So, this is a common problem...modern gas with ethanol SUCKS and does not store well, even with additives. You need to USE IT....and use it FAST!

For storage over any length of time, best practice IMO is to leave the tanks as close to empty as possible. Much better to have only 5 gallons of bad gas to pump out and dispose of instead of 200+!

So PapaJ, (I hope its not too late and you didn't get that one tank fabricated) as you can see it's better to have TWO tanks and use them as described in the posts above...one large tank with 200+ gallons is a problem waiting to happen.

Gee, I haven't read a rant about ethanol gas in a while Every spring, one or two boats at my club have water issues and it almost always due to water intrusion, not condensation. How do we know?
Simple, the tanks are drained, filled with fresh gas and after the next heavy rain, the owners have the same problem
Although E10 can suffer phase separation, it rarely occurs unless there is a lot of water in the gas. Stabilizer isn't going to do much if there is a lot of water water, neither will water separating filters. As soon as you said the part about the problem occurring after winter storage, I suspected water intrusion. Often it gets in through bad o-rings on the fuel filler caps. I have seem E10 gas left in tanks for 3 years and still be usable. I know several owners of commercial business with older trucks who chuckle when someone asks to get rid of OLD gas.

On another topic, I have posted my thoughts on winter storage and I am not one who recommends filling the tank for the winter. I leave mine relatively empty. That way if water does get in, I have 20 gallons of gas to get rid of instead of a full tank. In the spring, after prep, I start the engine with the almost empty tank. It it runs OK and it has for 11 years, I then add new fuel to freshen it up. One caveat:
I fuel with Valvetek gas which does have additives for the marine environment. I only add Stabil for winter layup, one ounce per gallon.

Seasick, nothing personal and no offense intended but I have to disagree with your comment that phase separation "rarely occurs".
As I mentioned in my post above, the Fuel Disposal company was scheduled to pump out 10 more boats the very next day...what are the chances that all 10 boats had "bad fuel filler seals" vs the almost 100% certainty that all the boats used Ethanol.... and that it probably phase separated?

And my buddy's boat is an 87 Trophy Pro, the gas fill caps are solid rubber stoppers that torque down into the threaded fill tube opening...no way rain water gets in there.

see this quote:
"Don�t let your fuel sit around for a long time. The shelf life of ethanol might be as short as six weeks. Use a fuel stabilizer if you are not using your boat for more than a few weeks. This inhibits oxidation of the fuel, which leads to the formation of deposits. Once fuel has phase separated, fuel additives will not have the desired affect. The water has to be removed and the depleted fuel safely disposed of. "
from: http://www.iboats.com/basics/ethanol_fuels.html

and this quote:
" Phase separation occurs in E10 gas when it absorbs only 0.5% of water (3.8 teaspoons) per gallon of E10. When 0.5% of water is absorbed into the ethanol-gasoline blend, the bonded water and ethanol will separate and dissipate from the rest of the gasoline. The water and ethanol will drop out of the gas and you will be left with a layer of water on the bottom of the tank, a layer above that of ethanol/water mix, and above that a top layer of gasoline that is now 3 octane lower than it was when it was mixed with the higher octane ethanol."
and:
"Ethanol mixed gasoline should not be stored long term. Ethanol’s storage shelf life is only up to 100 days. In 100 days or less, even under ideal conditions (low humidity, sealed fuel system), the alcohol part of the gasoline mixture will absorb enough water from atmospheric humidity and condensation to cause contamination. Phase separation becomes a concern after 100 days. When E10 becomes cloudy, then you know it is going bad due to water contamination."
both from: http://injectorrepair.com/ethanol-problem/

and this:
"Phase Separation describes what happens to gasoline containing Ethanol when water is present. When gasoline containing even small amounts of Ethanol comes in contact with water, either liquid or in the form of humidity; the Ethanol will pick-up and absorb some or all of that water. When it reaches a saturation point the Ethanol and water will Phase Separate, actually coming out of solution and forming two or three distinct layers in the tank."
from: http://www.lcbamarketing.com/phase_sepa ... l_blen.htm

and many more, if you google search "ethanol storage issues".

Regarding Valvetec gas, I also like it and have been using that exclusively since I moved the boat to FlaDa. I run my tanks down to almost empty, and shock (overdose) whatever gas is still in there with Startron before Summer storage. Last couple of Falls, she started right up with no problems and hopefully will again this Fall. (knocking on wood as I type)