Got my first real issue with my Suzuki DT225
- Thread starter Lt.Mike
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It makes a quarter turn and stops cold against something making a metal to metal sound. Its very difficult to pinpoint where the clunk is coming form.
I did think of pulling the fly wheel as I had a minor issue with my force. It had a bolt back out of the stator and cut a groove in the fly wheel. That one did give a bad noise with a lot of shavings on the power head when it happened. I lock tighted the stator bolts down and replaced the fly wheel and never had another problem.
This one gave no warning, no sound, no nothing.
So I tried to pull it with a two point puller on this engine and it wouldn't budge. I backed off as I didn't want to break anything. I sprayed it with PB blaster and will try again this weekend.
It does stop in the same spot when turned and the pistons raise/lower about 1/2".
I spoke again with the mechanic again today, gotta say he's been pretty good about giving phone advice. My next homework assignment is to again pull the plugs and see if I can rotate the fly wheel however much by hand. He says it should move easily but if there is any drag the cylinder walls are damaged. He also said that crank shafts are no longer available for this engine from Suzuki.
Its eleven years old, What the heck, I have a 1946 Farmall tractor that I use around my property and I can get anything for that. :roll:
Hey Suzuki, I don't call that customer support. Thats called planned obsolescence. Its a Suzuki bottle rocket. Zoom boom.
He said if the crank is damaged a re-power is in order but I found a used crankcase assembly that I may consider.
And yes its been a roller coaster ride for sure.
Mike.
I did think of pulling the fly wheel as I had a minor issue with my force. It had a bolt back out of the stator and cut a groove in the fly wheel. That one did give a bad noise with a lot of shavings on the power head when it happened. I lock tighted the stator bolts down and replaced the fly wheel and never had another problem.
This one gave no warning, no sound, no nothing.
So I tried to pull it with a two point puller on this engine and it wouldn't budge. I backed off as I didn't want to break anything. I sprayed it with PB blaster and will try again this weekend.
It does stop in the same spot when turned and the pistons raise/lower about 1/2".
I spoke again with the mechanic again today, gotta say he's been pretty good about giving phone advice. My next homework assignment is to again pull the plugs and see if I can rotate the fly wheel however much by hand. He says it should move easily but if there is any drag the cylinder walls are damaged. He also said that crank shafts are no longer available for this engine from Suzuki.
Its eleven years old, What the heck, I have a 1946 Farmall tractor that I use around my property and I can get anything for that. :roll:
Hey Suzuki, I don't call that customer support. Thats called planned obsolescence. Its a Suzuki bottle rocket. Zoom boom.
He said if the crank is damaged a re-power is in order but I found a used crankcase assembly that I may consider.
And yes its been a roller coaster ride for sure.
Mike.
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Well I walked away from it for a couple of days, had too. Went back, pulled the fly wheel and removed all doubt that the issue is deep within the power head.
Still not believing this would happen with 420 hours on the clock.
One shop north of me is willing to give it a look and if its not the crankshaft thats broke they can fix it with the probable cost being around the $3,000 range.
If they can't fix it I walk away with a $600 repair (?) bill and a box of parts leaving me with a repower as my only option.
I spoke today with the south Jersey dealer that sold the motor new to the prior owner. He said the last three years of Suzuki two strokes were nothing but problems and he's glad they stopped making them. He added that Suzuki customer support was not there for the owners when the motors failed. He had no interest in rebuilding mine either. Almost in the same breath he suggested repowering to one of the new Suzuki 4 stroke motors. I don't know why but I stayed on the line to speak with the sales person. She echoed that Suzuki customer service was bad and said generally the outboards only last ten years, adding they arn't making them like they used to.
Wow. That had to be the absolute worst sales pitch ever.
Ok, with my present cash in hand needed for a new roof, my home takes priority. I'm just going to clean up the boat fog what I can in a dead motor and cover it for the winter.
Come spring I'll take it to the mechanic who was willing to try for a fix. If he can make it right, great. If not I'll explore my repower options.
In for a penny, in for a pound so I'm leaning toward the purchase of a new motor the next time around as I'd hate to see another used motor fail for me.
The Yamaha inline four cylinder four stroke, F200 weighing in at 489 lb.s may be a good choice if I can get a good deal. Merc Optimax or E-tec are other options.
It's just a bummer I'll be paying my present loan for the boat and motor off or the next couple of years.
I'll be stacking outboard loans like student loans. :roll:
Still not believing this would happen with 420 hours on the clock.
One shop north of me is willing to give it a look and if its not the crankshaft thats broke they can fix it with the probable cost being around the $3,000 range.
If they can't fix it I walk away with a $600 repair (?) bill and a box of parts leaving me with a repower as my only option.
I spoke today with the south Jersey dealer that sold the motor new to the prior owner. He said the last three years of Suzuki two strokes were nothing but problems and he's glad they stopped making them. He added that Suzuki customer support was not there for the owners when the motors failed. He had no interest in rebuilding mine either. Almost in the same breath he suggested repowering to one of the new Suzuki 4 stroke motors. I don't know why but I stayed on the line to speak with the sales person. She echoed that Suzuki customer service was bad and said generally the outboards only last ten years, adding they arn't making them like they used to.
Wow. That had to be the absolute worst sales pitch ever.
Ok, with my present cash in hand needed for a new roof, my home takes priority. I'm just going to clean up the boat fog what I can in a dead motor and cover it for the winter.
Come spring I'll take it to the mechanic who was willing to try for a fix. If he can make it right, great. If not I'll explore my repower options.
In for a penny, in for a pound so I'm leaning toward the purchase of a new motor the next time around as I'd hate to see another used motor fail for me.
The Yamaha inline four cylinder four stroke, F200 weighing in at 489 lb.s may be a good choice if I can get a good deal. Merc Optimax or E-tec are other options.
It's just a bummer I'll be paying my present loan for the boat and motor off or the next couple of years.
I'll be stacking outboard loans like student loans. :roll:
That sucks. I would go ahead and pull the powerhead yourself (if you have the time and tools). Do some initial tear down...keeping track of ever little nut and bolt...and get to the crankshaft. If it is in fact broken, you just saved yourself $600.
With a cracked lower unit, I wouldn't put $3000 into that motor. Part it out and get back what you can.
If it were me, I would look for a deal on a used motor (even if it's 20 years old) just to get back on the water. I picked up a '95 Merc 225 EFI with full rigging for $2000 for my 227. It's been in the garage for nearly 2 years now waiting on the project to get finished...
Heck, I bet you could find 150 to 200 Merc for under $1000 if you look hard enough.
With a cracked lower unit, I wouldn't put $3000 into that motor. Part it out and get back what you can.
If it were me, I would look for a deal on a used motor (even if it's 20 years old) just to get back on the water. I picked up a '95 Merc 225 EFI with full rigging for $2000 for my 227. It's been in the garage for nearly 2 years now waiting on the project to get finished...
Heck, I bet you could find 150 to 200 Merc for under $1000 if you look hard enough.http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/boa/4707865564.html. You could always make him an offer on the counter rotator.
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/4759112397.html. Compression sounds a bit low, but it's even. May have been tested with a bad gauge. I had the same motor on my old 204 and it was VERY fuel efficient for a carbed 2 stroke.
http://baltimore.craigslist.org/boa/4759112397.html. Compression sounds a bit low, but it's even. May have been tested with a bad gauge. I had the same motor on my old 204 and it was VERY fuel efficient for a carbed 2 stroke.
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I spoke with my local Grady dealer (Anchor Marine) about my repowering options. We've known each other for some 25 years so I thought I'd get some honest advise. Roger part owner and probably the best outboard mechanic I know says there is a chance it may be something simple and it'd have to be opened up to know. It was suggested that I pull the oil pump first to see if it had seized.
I did, it wasn't. (just one more dip on the coaster)
I hesitate in cracking the case open myself as once I do I'm pretty much committed to doing the whole job myself. I wouldn't expect a mechanic to be too thrilled about taking up a repair job someone else started half way through.
As much as I want my baby to be fixed, I have a roof to get done right now and that takes priority. In a couple of weeks I'll take it to the mechanic and hope for the best.
With the lower unit out and being able to get a really good look at it I'm not that worried about the crack. It falls short of the the gear portion , only being in the exhaust side and can be welded.
I will be look hard at what 200-225hp outboards are available. I know a lot of guys have 150s and they work fine but I've had a summer with this 225 and I don't think I can be happy with anything smaller than a 200.
I am considering a Yamaha F200 4 stroke so I'm going to post a "how you like yours" on the discussion side of the forum.
Casting my question there may get more bites. :wink:
Anybody have any experience with these guys on a rebuilt motor?
http://www.outboardexchange.com/remanufactured/
Thanks guys, Mike.
I did, it wasn't. (just one more dip on the coaster)
I hesitate in cracking the case open myself as once I do I'm pretty much committed to doing the whole job myself. I wouldn't expect a mechanic to be too thrilled about taking up a repair job someone else started half way through.
As much as I want my baby to be fixed, I have a roof to get done right now and that takes priority. In a couple of weeks I'll take it to the mechanic and hope for the best.
With the lower unit out and being able to get a really good look at it I'm not that worried about the crack. It falls short of the the gear portion , only being in the exhaust side and can be welded.
I will be look hard at what 200-225hp outboards are available. I know a lot of guys have 150s and they work fine but I've had a summer with this 225 and I don't think I can be happy with anything smaller than a 200.
I am considering a Yamaha F200 4 stroke so I'm going to post a "how you like yours" on the discussion side of the forum.
Casting my question there may get more bites. :wink:
Anybody have any experience with these guys on a rebuilt motor?
http://www.outboardexchange.com/remanufactured/
Thanks guys, Mike.
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Wow looking back now its been a year since my last post on this subject. I had to step back from the problem as this was a major headache and I had a big year ahead of me. Dealing with a blown outboard had to wait.
Well I retired this past June, I highly recommend it, :wink: and I have been occupied with all the "to dos" that have backed up over the years getting those things finally off my back.
Though the boat was officially put on the back burner I still did some outboard shopping and compared the cost of a rebuilt outboard with new. I found that either new or rebuilt there is the additional $1,500-2,000 for rigging. Realistically I was looking at $10,000 rigged used and $16,000 new.
Having a bad experience with my 2 stroke Suzuki and finding that they no longer stock the pressed crank shaft/connecting rod assembly effectively making that outboard non-rebuildable, I wasn't a fan of that maker anymore.
Though I really didn't want to go with another Suzuki I found myself weighing my options after finding a used motor which was the same model, same year with less hours (370). The motor had just been serviced, new zinks, pump and sounded really good when I checked it out. The paint for the lower sections was peeling but all else seemed ok. Dickering back and forth on the price we settled on $2,250.00. The other two strong points was that with it being exactly the same motor, all wiring cables etc will hook right up and my original motor would serve as a potential future parts source if needed.
I sought advice from friends and all agreed that this was a worthy gamble, so the deal was done. The dice rolled again.
Last weekend having removed the motor from the Welcraft that it was mounted on (transom was shot) I brought it home.
I have since sanded and repainted everything below the cowl. Looks pretty good now. I figured I'd give the paint a few days to harden up and I plan to mount it on my Grady this weekend.
One thing I'll add is that in the past year, even though I was unhappy with its not running I spent the down time maintaining the boat and keeping it clean. Though it was a pain in the backside I also kept fresh fuel in the tank by draining and refilling with about 10 gallons every three weeks or so. The gas I removed went into my truck, my tractor, etc. I went through a lot of work and expense replacing those lines and tank to let them get ruined. I also hoped to prepare for the day another motor would be mounted.
So, with all that said, wish me luck.
Mike.
Well I retired this past June, I highly recommend it, :wink: and I have been occupied with all the "to dos" that have backed up over the years getting those things finally off my back.
Though the boat was officially put on the back burner I still did some outboard shopping and compared the cost of a rebuilt outboard with new. I found that either new or rebuilt there is the additional $1,500-2,000 for rigging. Realistically I was looking at $10,000 rigged used and $16,000 new.
Having a bad experience with my 2 stroke Suzuki and finding that they no longer stock the pressed crank shaft/connecting rod assembly effectively making that outboard non-rebuildable, I wasn't a fan of that maker anymore.
Though I really didn't want to go with another Suzuki I found myself weighing my options after finding a used motor which was the same model, same year with less hours (370). The motor had just been serviced, new zinks, pump and sounded really good when I checked it out. The paint for the lower sections was peeling but all else seemed ok. Dickering back and forth on the price we settled on $2,250.00. The other two strong points was that with it being exactly the same motor, all wiring cables etc will hook right up and my original motor would serve as a potential future parts source if needed.
I sought advice from friends and all agreed that this was a worthy gamble, so the deal was done. The dice rolled again.
Last weekend having removed the motor from the Welcraft that it was mounted on (transom was shot) I brought it home.
I have since sanded and repainted everything below the cowl. Looks pretty good now. I figured I'd give the paint a few days to harden up and I plan to mount it on my Grady this weekend.
One thing I'll add is that in the past year, even though I was unhappy with its not running I spent the down time maintaining the boat and keeping it clean. Though it was a pain in the backside I also kept fresh fuel in the tank by draining and refilling with about 10 gallons every three weeks or so. The gas I removed went into my truck, my tractor, etc. I went through a lot of work and expense replacing those lines and tank to let them get ruined. I also hoped to prepare for the day another motor would be mounted.
So, with all that said, wish me luck.
Mike.
I've never seen that before. Must have been full of water. Go on THT and do a WTB for the lower unit. There are likely plenty around from old blown zukes.
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The crack in the lower unit was confined to the exhaust area just forward of the prop. The inside of the unit was free of water. In that I guess I was lucky. I am good about performing maintenance on my engines.
Once that outboard is placed on an engine stand I will take the lower unit to some one good at welding aluminum for a repair. I'll also pull apart the powerhead and see about what I can do with or possibly replace the crank shaft assembly. My only option there is a used assembly though I have my doubts of that being reliable.
Anyway what I paid for the replacement motor amounts to about half of what I was quoted from the local shop if upon disassembly they found it could be repaired. If not I would have still been socked with a $500 labor bill and a box of parts.
Right now both motors are hanging in my barn. The replacement motor is painted and ready to go but I'm waiting for the temps to rise a bit so that I can do some minor cosmetic repair to the top of the transom before I mount the new (to me) motor.
I can't do those repairs when the motor is mounted and though it is only a cosmetic issue if I didn't do it, it would bother me.
I feel that anything I do with this boat if at all possible within my means shouldn't be just a fix but be done with a restoration in mind.
I can't always do as nice a job as I'd like but I try to make it as right as I can manage.
Incidentally upon exposing and removing the motor mount bolts the transom is dry as a bone.
Mike.
The Harbor Freight 1 ton lift did a perfect job removing both motors from their boats. HF sells this one for around $170 though I found mine on Craig's List used once and for $50. The lift folds up taking up very little room in my shop.
I'm very satisfied with this lift and have used it for my smaller 25hp Mariner and other things to save my back. :wink:
The gel coat along the top is in need of attention.
Once that outboard is placed on an engine stand I will take the lower unit to some one good at welding aluminum for a repair. I'll also pull apart the powerhead and see about what I can do with or possibly replace the crank shaft assembly. My only option there is a used assembly though I have my doubts of that being reliable.
Anyway what I paid for the replacement motor amounts to about half of what I was quoted from the local shop if upon disassembly they found it could be repaired. If not I would have still been socked with a $500 labor bill and a box of parts.
Right now both motors are hanging in my barn. The replacement motor is painted and ready to go but I'm waiting for the temps to rise a bit so that I can do some minor cosmetic repair to the top of the transom before I mount the new (to me) motor.
I can't do those repairs when the motor is mounted and though it is only a cosmetic issue if I didn't do it, it would bother me.
I feel that anything I do with this boat if at all possible within my means shouldn't be just a fix but be done with a restoration in mind.
I can't always do as nice a job as I'd like but I try to make it as right as I can manage.
Incidentally upon exposing and removing the motor mount bolts the transom is dry as a bone.
Mike.
The Harbor Freight 1 ton lift did a perfect job removing both motors from their boats. HF sells this one for around $170 though I found mine on Craig's List used once and for $50. The lift folds up taking up very little room in my shop.
I'm very satisfied with this lift and have used it for my smaller 25hp Mariner and other things to save my back. :wink:
The gel coat along the top is in need of attention.
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Well, the outboards finally mounted and ready to water test!
But before I just threw the motor on I stripped and repainted what was below the cowl. The cowl itself was badly weathered and faded but with some time with my buffer it came back pretty well.
With that done I put my attention to the transom.
The 225 is heavier than the early 150 the boat came with, probably an extra 80lbs. So with the extra weight the top of the transom flexed and cracked. ( no way a 4 stroke 225 could ever be used)
The prior owner then epoxied the cracks and added a transom plate. No more flexing but the epoxy had yellowed badly over time.
You can see the thin trim piece took its share of the beating too.
(Note that the wood inside of the transom is dry as a bone and there is no movement in the transom if you try and bounce the OB.)
I sanded and cut the old epoxy out. I then filled it in with marine tex. (looks sloppy before sanding)
I used the old trim as a template for a much larger and stouter 2x2 angle aluminum piece. Larger screws, and finish washers were used all around.
The ends were also through bolted which added a bit more beef to the transom. To protect the new epoxy I could have used paint but I'm working in 50 degree weather and I doubt It would have looked right. I've used non-skid tape with good results before and it lasts really well.
So I ended up using 4" wide white tape the width of the well and it came out looking nice and clean. I guarantee that tape will look good and protect the epoxy for longer than I'll be around. A good bit of 3M 5200 is under everything.
Finally I got the replacement OB mounted and running. Feels good. :wink:
(the 2.7L decals were ruined so the G-Loomis fear no fish decals seemed right to dress it up)
I plan to water test in the Delaware river so with it being fresh I won't need rinse and flush it afterward. It'll then go into my buddy's pole barn to ride out the winter.
Mike.
But before I just threw the motor on I stripped and repainted what was below the cowl. The cowl itself was badly weathered and faded but with some time with my buffer it came back pretty well.
With that done I put my attention to the transom.
The 225 is heavier than the early 150 the boat came with, probably an extra 80lbs. So with the extra weight the top of the transom flexed and cracked. ( no way a 4 stroke 225 could ever be used)
The prior owner then epoxied the cracks and added a transom plate. No more flexing but the epoxy had yellowed badly over time.
You can see the thin trim piece took its share of the beating too.
(Note that the wood inside of the transom is dry as a bone and there is no movement in the transom if you try and bounce the OB.)
I sanded and cut the old epoxy out. I then filled it in with marine tex. (looks sloppy before sanding)
I used the old trim as a template for a much larger and stouter 2x2 angle aluminum piece. Larger screws, and finish washers were used all around.
The ends were also through bolted which added a bit more beef to the transom. To protect the new epoxy I could have used paint but I'm working in 50 degree weather and I doubt It would have looked right. I've used non-skid tape with good results before and it lasts really well.
So I ended up using 4" wide white tape the width of the well and it came out looking nice and clean. I guarantee that tape will look good and protect the epoxy for longer than I'll be around. A good bit of 3M 5200 is under everything.
Finally I got the replacement OB mounted and running. Feels good. :wink:
(the 2.7L decals were ruined so the G-Loomis fear no fish decals seemed right to dress it up)
I plan to water test in the Delaware river so with it being fresh I won't need rinse and flush it afterward. It'll then go into my buddy's pole barn to ride out the winter.
Mike.
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Back in business! Had the boat on the Delaware River today and it went well.
Only problem was launching and retrieving which was a royal pain in the back side! The tide was going out and with it being so late in the season all the floating docks on the river were pulled out for the winter. No way was I grinding the hull on the stony beach so we clambered aboard from the trailer to the bow. Not too much fun for two middle aged guys. We left the trailer in the water for our return. Not like there were any other fools out on the river today.
We ran up river a few miles then down river then back to load the boat. Easier said than done as the ramp was sideways to the current which was now ripping. I have never had such a tough time loading any boat ever. Lining up on the trailer was impossible without power loading or getting wet. I hate power loading so lets just say the water was cold. If something was to go bad today I guess I'm ok with with the way it went.
Oh and for the record there was no one at the ramp when we launched but it seemed to be the place to be for lunch hour so there were about a dozen or more to witness my ramp headache when reloading. :roll:
I've considered trailer guide bunks in the past but didn't think them necessary, I may have to pick up a pair.
Mike
Only problem was launching and retrieving which was a royal pain in the back side! The tide was going out and with it being so late in the season all the floating docks on the river were pulled out for the winter. No way was I grinding the hull on the stony beach so we clambered aboard from the trailer to the bow. Not too much fun for two middle aged guys. We left the trailer in the water for our return. Not like there were any other fools out on the river today.
We ran up river a few miles then down river then back to load the boat. Easier said than done as the ramp was sideways to the current which was now ripping. I have never had such a tough time loading any boat ever. Lining up on the trailer was impossible without power loading or getting wet. I hate power loading so lets just say the water was cold. If something was to go bad today I guess I'm ok with with the way it went.
Oh and for the record there was no one at the ramp when we launched but it seemed to be the place to be for lunch hour so there were about a dozen or more to witness my ramp headache when reloading. :roll:
I've considered trailer guide bunks in the past but didn't think them necessary, I may have to pick up a pair.
Mike
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Here's some video from the day,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBgh91xnL9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLQdGloLEA
Nothing spectacular but that's a good thing right?
Just buzzing along a little under 4,000 rpm. Needless to say I'm going to baby this engine.
Mike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBgh91xnL9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VLQdGloLEA
Nothing spectacular but that's a good thing right?
Just buzzing along a little under 4,000 rpm. Needless to say I'm going to baby this engine.
Mike.
Sounds like a successful shakedown run. What ramp did you launch from on the Delaware? We had to take one of our work boats out there the other day and encountered the same issue with no docks at the Duck Island Ramp south of Trenton. Thankfully I had waders and just climbed aboard in the shallows once we were launched and ready to go.
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We launched from the Bordentown ramp. That's the one that's under the overlook on Rt295.
I don't know how close the docks would be to the ramp when the regular boating season is in full swing. You won't want to beach a boat there as its all rocks. I'll say something else too, I'm not going to launch there again without trailer guides to help line up the boat on retrieval.
I have always trailered my boats and I will go as far to say that I'm good at it, but that ripping side currant made me look like an idiot when it came to getting that boat back on the trailer any where near straight. My 15' aluminum boat wouldn't be nearly as hard as the Grady I'm sure. It took me a good 30 minutes to get it back on the trailer. THe Gradys high bow was not easy to climb over either.
I doubt I'd do it again without the docks there.
Bordetown's ramp fees in season as posted were very reasonable. $10 daily for NJ resident, $5 if you lived in town.
:!: One other note that is very important, Your not getting in there trailering with a hardtop or arch.
You have to drive under a bridge with a 10' clearance. :!:
Mine made it as you see here but it wouldn't with a bimini top up.
I don't know how close the docks would be to the ramp when the regular boating season is in full swing. You won't want to beach a boat there as its all rocks. I'll say something else too, I'm not going to launch there again without trailer guides to help line up the boat on retrieval.
I have always trailered my boats and I will go as far to say that I'm good at it, but that ripping side currant made me look like an idiot when it came to getting that boat back on the trailer any where near straight. My 15' aluminum boat wouldn't be nearly as hard as the Grady I'm sure. It took me a good 30 minutes to get it back on the trailer.
THe Gradys high bow was not easy to climb over either. I doubt I'd do it again without the docks there.
Bordetown's ramp fees in season as posted were very reasonable. $10 daily for NJ resident, $5 if you lived in town.
:!: One other note that is very important, Your not getting in there trailering with a hardtop or arch.
You have to drive under a bridge with a 10' clearance. :!:
Mine made it as you see here but it wouldn't with a bimini top up.