Great Lakes Question

[wahoo33417]

Hoping to cruise through three of the Great Lakes this summer, from Buffalo to Chicago. Question for those who know: In what month(s) am I most likely to get predictably calm seas?

And, is it likely that my 258 is enough boat to give a fairly comfortable ride on an 'average' day?

I appreciate any and all guidance from those who frequent these waters.

Thanks.

Rob

 

[family affair]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think you realize what you are in for. Unlike Florida, the great Lakes are unpredictable year round, but maybe less unpredictable in August. I'm 99.9% convinced the wind and waves forecasting is done by a chimp that throws stuff at a wall. Where ever it hits is what they communicate. It is far more wrong than right. The only consolation I can give you is that the lakes usually flatten out at night till 8 or 9 am. After that, it's anyone's guess.
Don't get me wrong, it can be done, but you need to be patient with a lot of time to wait out the unpredictable weather.
As for the size of your boat, it can be done, but expect a lot of chop. Especially on Erie. Trimmed down with a lot if tabs will help. Making it to the "Islands" will be worth the trouble.

 

[magicalbill]

family affair is right..

The Great Lakes lie in kind of a climatological battlefield. During the time you can comfortably cruise, (June-Sept) they are affected by cold fronts that bring warm air up on Southerly winds ahead of them and the winds generally veer NW to NE behind them with a sometimes significant drop in temps. Some fronts are not that strong and bring little change with their passage. When a strong Bermuda HI or a localized hi pressure system parks over the lakes, the winds can be calm for days, although this is rare.

On the whole, the lakes are more cantankerous than their saltwater counterparts. Because of the freshwater, the waves are closer together and somehow, quicker..

Run the Southerly shore of Erie from Buffalo West. Except for the passage of the aforementioned cold fronts, the prevailing winds are S to SW. with onshore breezes some afternoons. This will give you reasonable running conditions along a lee shore past Cleveland to Sandusky and to the Islands. There, you will find the infamous, Erie chop, more often than not. It seems to be a combination of the islands, the ferrys running to-and-from Put-In-Bay and Kellys and the winds + boat traffic. The wave action is kind of like a swimming pool on Memorial Day Weekend filled with kids.

When you get thru the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair, run the East shore of Huron unless you really want to see the North Channel. This route will give you another lee shore for the most part. Underneath the Mac Bridge and into Lake Michigan..Here begins the gamble. Either shore will be unpredictable, depending on the fronts and the weather systems. Stay overnite at Mackinaw City Municipal Marina. Study the weather, maybe ride the ferry out to Mackinaw Island for the day; eat some fudge and make your cruising plans. Again, the Wisconsin side is generally your lee side. Fortunately both shores have ports of entry every 18-20 miles or so with good marinas where you can wait out rough days. The dunes on the Northern lake Michigan shoreline are a sight to behold, by the way.

Your 258 Journey? Up to a 2 ft sea and 10-15K winds you should be fine. Past that, as Family Affair says, drop the tabs & slow down.

Best months? July-Aug. After that, the stronger Westerlies and NW winds pick up as the fronts get stronger.

Remember, the lakes get rough fast, but calm down as quickly. Be prepared.. That water is cold, even in the summer.

Enjoy..Marvelous cruising.

 

[magicalbill]

Crap..I meant run the West shore of Lake Huron..The Michigan side..


Oops...

 

[family affair]

Magicalbill's assessment is very accurate.

I know the Journey's hull is the same as mine plus about 2' or so of running bottom. My complaint about the Voyager is that the only way I can get it to run in chop is to trim and tab down a lot, killing my fuel economy. I can run like this close to 3' waves with a ride tolerable to me, but not most others on board. I have wondered if another 2 feet of running bottom or boat would help.
I only mention this because of my one experience running 30 miles to the Erie islands. With 5 on board and a 2' or less chop, I wouldn't do it again. I can't imagine running 3 lakes that way. Keep in mind the lake usually is rougher than this.
For what it's worth, I'm typically the guy that is all for going out when conditions aren't ideal and I'm forewarning you to give this some thought. If you can do most of your traveling in the early morning, you will have a much better trip.

Please let me know if I can offer any details from Cleveland to the islands. I know the area well.

 

[wahoo33417]

Thanks Family and Magical. Really useful and somewhat surprising information. For us, when the ocean is flat calm, we say its "like a lake". Guess I better stop saying that!

Family: My single-engine Journey is probably a bit bow heavy. On the plus side, I can keep the bow down at a fairly slow speed. Which is good because my hull does not like to catch air under it. Short period waves give it a bumpy ride and I don't do pounding as well as I used to. Its a good riding boat up to about two feet. Beyond that, either the wave period has to get longer or I just slow way down.

As an aside, we're doing the Great Loop, one section at a time. So far we have done Albany, NY to the FL Keys. I'll look to see how we can build more weather days into the Great Lakes section. But it looks like, logistically, once you leave Buffalo and pass Detroit, you kinda have to make it to Chicago to find a not-too-expensive way back to the truck and trailer in Buffalo. Looks like either more thinking or early retirement is needed!

Tx, Rob

 

[magicalbill]

wahoo;

Your welcome, happy to chime in.

Keep in mind we presented generalities instead of specifics. To get technical would have translated into a much longer post. Either family affair or I can give you more precise info on the area of the lakes we are familiar with.

There are ramps in almost all the major ports of entry on Lake Michigan. I'm pretty sure there are similar options on the other lakes.
If you have to retrieve the truck/trailer and pull the boat, there will be plenty of locations to do it.

One more bit; I'm fairly certain there is a Grady dealer in Huron, Ohio. It used to be Beaver Park Marine in Vermillion and re-located. Handy to know if you need anything along the Southern shore of Erie.
There is also one on Northern Lake St. Clair; can't remember exactly where. The other is Twin Cities Marine, Two Rivers WI. right on the lakeshore. great family owned joint. Top notch. I bought my 232 Gulfstream there and they are the best.

Keep us "looped in" (bad pun..)

 

[grunt]

We fish Lake Erie from spring to fall out of Leamington and Wheatley Ontario.
On the average there are only about a dozen real nice fishing days.
The rest of the time its usually too windy.
And you can't outrun the thunderstorms when you see them on the horizon either.
We got caught once about 12 miles out and were in 10 footers before we made it back.
Used to be predominantly sw winds but seems to be a lot of east winds anymore.
Its like the other fellow said...The weatherman here is related to Captain Peachfuzz from the Bullwinkle show.

 

[wahoo33417]

Thanks, Grunt. Gotta rethink this dilemma. Would a 30' Grady make a significant difference in the number of days you can run comfortably? You guys might be building the case for a new boat!

Thanks, Rob

 

[magicalbill]

How much time do you have to devote to the journey? There is no escaping the fact that you will be kept in port some of the time; watch the weather systems. It's worth the effort to do what you want to do..it's a great trip.

A 30-footer will certainly increase your days to run. it will also force you to live in the world of 1-1.5 MPG. Your Journey will yield 2.5 MPG on most days. This will translate into a significant savings over hundreds of cruising miles.

I would plan to set aside all of July & August to your effort. if you have to go back to work or whatever in the middle of it, dry-store the boat and come back when time permits and you can continue the trip. As I mentioned above, there are ports of entry all over the lakes where pro-level marinas exist than can haul it for you, and perform repair & service work while your gone. The possible exception would be the Western shore of Huron, but even there, they aren't too far apart.

I might add that 2016 would be a good year to try it since the lake levels are up significantly from a couple years ago. The extra couple feet will help if you go exploring around the rocky shorelines of the North Channel or the Northern coast of Lake Michigan on the MI side.

You'll probably just do this once, but you'll have great pics & memories.

 

[magicalbill]

I re-read my last post..I don't want to be pushy at all. I believe in your idea and think the rewards will be big. If you try it and it's too uncomfortable and stressful, pull out and say you gave it a shot. Given the right precautions, common sense & time, it's doable.

I'm excited for you..I haven't cruised the Lakes in years.. I'll just live it thru you.

 

[wahoo33417]

Thanks, Magical and no worries. I'm getting the advice I asked for and that's great. Current thinking is that I'll skip ahead of the Great Lakes - for now. Instead, I'll take my 258 from Chicago to Mobile and then home over the next two-three summers. I think the 258 is perfectly sized for that trip, and, as you say, does very well on fuel. After that, I'm retired and a Marlin has always been in those plans. So I'll have the boat, time and patience to enjoy the Great Lakes.

Tx, Rob

 

[magicalbill]

Cool! Never have made that run either. Sounds like you have great plans. Enjoy & keep us posted.

 

[family affair]

Having the time or amazing luck would be key to making the Great Lakes trip work with what you have. A boat that can run in 3-4 footers would definitely be a game changer for the trip... in Erie at least. That way you would be able to run roughly 70% of the time comfortably.

If you are itching for a good shorter trip with your Journey, put in at Sandusky or Port Clinton around August. That way you can spend a week or so exploring the bay attractions, river, US, and Canadian islands.

 

[damboyer]

This might be moot point for you but I would not attempt to navigate this trip without radar. I fish out of Frankfort; a port on Lake Michigan in NW Michigan. We regularly have thick fog that can come up very quickly. This past summer there were many foggy days that developed during daylight hours. This fog combined with many boats that don't have radar + commercial tug and freighter traffic can create a dangerous environment.

 

[wahoo33417]

Thanks. I intend to add AIS for the barge-heavy Illinois/Missippi/Tennessee Rivers. Radar for fog prone lakes is a good idea.

Have covered all of east coast and only one day when fog was a real problem. I was more lucky than prepared that day. Won't push that luck.

Thanks, Rob

 

[grunt]

A few years ago we were out in Lake Erie near the tip of Point Pelee when out of the fog came a Navy frigate warship.
Now that was a real eerie experience that day.

 

[dduflo]

Have you considered starting in Buffalo or Rochester and heading East into the 1000 Islands? Lots to see and bring your Passport so you can visit any of the several Canadian villages and Provincial Parks, most of which on located on islands.

 

[wahoo33417]

Update: Great Lakes Question

Update and a revised question: After all the helpful information gathered in 2015, we decided to skip over the Great Lakes for now and continue the Rivers portion of the Great Loop in our 258 Journey, since it is the perfect boat for that section. We've covered from Chicago to Paducah so far. Illinois River is beautiful when you get away from Chicago, in my opinion.

Plan is to revisit the Great Lakes in a bigger Grady. So we were at the Boat Show with some real consideration of a 30' Marlin when we met a very friendly couple who tell us they live near and very comfortably boat around Macinac Island in a 24' Robalo. "No problem boating the Great Lakes in our 258 Journey" they say. Poof goes the dreams of a Marlin says my wife.

So I'll ask here, is there some big difference in where these folks boat around Macinac and Lake Erie?

Plan now is to perhaps just go from Buffalo to Detroit in August and see how we do in our current 258 Journey.

Thanks in advance to the folks with real world experience.

Rob

 

[magicalbill]

Hey Wahoo;

Glad to hear your still in the game for your trip!

In the Straits there is Mackinaw Island & Bois Blanc on the Huron side.

In Erie there are obviously more: Kellys; North, Middle & South Bass, West Sister & Pelee in Canadian waters.

The area near the Islands have the confused Erie chop that I spoke of in detail in my previous post.

The Straits have the potential to generate higher seas because of the gradual narrowing of the passage. The seas have nowhere to go but up when they funnel into the Straits off of strong W/NW or E/NE winds from the wide-open lake waters.
They also bear somewhat of a resemblance to the Erie Islands in that the narrow fetch, island positions and the ferries criss-crossing each other to and from Mackinaw Island create a "swimming pool" type effect sometimes.

It all comes down to weather & conditions.

As I mentioned in my answer to you months ago, your 258 will be fine in anything under 15kt winds and 2 footers. Anything over that, whether your in Erie or Mackinaw will be uncomfortable. Keep in mind that same 15k wind will be quite comfortable on a lee shore but if it travels up the whole fetch of Lake Huron or Michigan you'll want to end that day early..

Your friends in the Robalo are right. Your Journey will take you around the lakes if you plan for layovers, take your time and choose your days wisely. It's one thing to go for a jaunt around Mackinaw Island in 15k winds and quite another to run 100 miles in the same conditions. Running a following or beam sea is preferable to quartering them over a long days run. I have spent running time aboard a 258 Journey w/twin 150's. Trimmed & tabbed correctly in the hands of an experienced operator, that is a good riding & stable rig. Make smart decisions and you'll have a great memory.

As mentioned before: From Buffalo to Detroit in August you should have prevailing Southerlies to S Westerlies creating a lee shore all the way to the islands. Some days you'll get an afternoon onshore Northerly, but they usually are 10k or under. Again, the exceptions are strong cold fronts that generate tstms and Northerlies behind their passage. Lake Erie in a strong Northerly to Northeasterly blow is scary.. Time your runs so that you are under a Hi Pressure to your East,like a Bermuda Hi, common in summer months, and you should have a relaxed gradient and fairly comfortable running conditions. With the lee shore, even if the Southerlies get to 10-15kts, you'll be fine close in.

One other thing: Once you enter the Detroit River from Erie, pay close attention to the shipping channel markers. Stray very far and you'll be in shoal water, especially on the Canadian side South of Detroit itself.

I got long-winded again..oops.