Holly Yamaha Batman!

[seasick]

Today was the day I make my annual pilgrimage to the marine supply store for most of my season's needs. You know, filters, oils, plugs, and other wear and tear items.
The Yamaha stuff is expensive but I gasped at the price of Ring Free, 42 bucks for 32 ounces. OK, I had a coupon and paid 38+ but yowie. And I though Yamalube was expensive.

 

[tunagrady]

Expensive? Maybe, but compare it to the price of staying home and working on the honeydo list...

 

[Parthery]

Order from Andy at Shipyard Island Marine....good guy and he will save you $$$. His website is http://www.simyamaha.com

 

[seasick]

Order from Andy at Shipyard Island Marine....good guy and he will save you $$$. His website is http://www.simyamaha.com

It runs 40 bucks at Sims and that doesn't include shipping. No great deal.
I know a lot of folks rave about Sims but I have found parts to be less expensive at Boats dot net. I did a comparrison on about a dozen parts for my Yami.

 

[Fishtales]

I question if this is really needed for today's 4-strokes. It was developed for 2-stroke technology. I add it every 3rd tank, but I've yet to see solid evidence or data that shows it is really needed. I'm starting to think this is nothing but a profit center.

Does anyone have such evidence/data? I don't want to hear if/how people use, but is there hard data that supports it's use. Do other manufacturers of 4-strokes require additives?

 

[Doc Stressor]

Ringfree and Mercury Quickleen are highly concentrated solutions of Chevron's Techron, which is polyetheramine (PEA) and related derivatives. Techron is a well tested and highly regarded fuel additive that is a component of Top Tier gasolines. If you doubt the effectiveness of this additive, just do a search on just about any automotive forum. It cleans gum and varnish from the fuel system and prevents/removes carbon deposits on intake valves, upper cylinder areas, and ring lands. It even cleans up fuel level sending units in gas tanks.

From the technical papers that I have read, it reduces deposits by altering the structure of the particles such that the are released from metal surfaces and get blown out through the exhaust.

The need for Ringfree in both 2-stroke and 4-stroke outboards depends on the quality of the fuel you are using. Yamaha states that it is recommended for underaditized fuels. Many gasolines contain only the minimum amount of detergent additives that are necessary to pass industry standard tests. Studies have shown that in the field, the minimum level of additives often isn't good enough even in automobiles. That has lead to specific brands of gasoline being certified as Top Tier fuels. These have much higher levels of additives than brands that just meet the standards.

Outboards operate under conditions that are more prone to deposit formation than car engines. They run cooler when trolling, experience higher sustained loads, and operate at higher average rpm. Combine that with the fact that boat fuel tends to sit around for longer times which promotes oxidation, and you have an argument for using the best fuels possible.

Here is a link that explains the gasoline quality dilemma in a non-technical way: http://www.aa1car.com/library/bad_gas2.htm

If you use only Top Tier gasolines and use your boat often and run it year round, you may not need additional additives. I have a pair of 12 year old Honda engines that have never seen a fuel additive other than StaBil. One has over 4000 hrs on it. Both still have near factory compression. But they were alway run on Chevron or Texaco gas and were used year round.

Since I now keep a boat at a marina where I can't be sure of the fuel source, I always add the maintenance dose of Ringfree. If you price Techron Concentrate in an automotive store and compare how much of this less concentrated product that you need to add per gallon of gas vs Ringfree, the Yamaha product is not that bad a deal.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

So my question is, how frequent should this stuff be added? We use primarily BP (Amaco) fuels here.

 

[Doc Stressor]

BP isn't a Top Tier brand. So I would use it at the maintenance level of 1 oz per 10 gallons all of the time. That's what I do with whatever crap fuel they sell at my marina.

Once deposits form, it take a higher level of Techron to remove them. So it's a matter of pay now or pay later. If you missed a treatment now and then it probably wouldn't make much difference though.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Thanks Doc. Funny, I use to think we took care of our boat pretty good until I joined this forum. :lol: I am glad I found this site and glad folks are willing to pass on their experiences.

I know of 2 Exxons here in the NC Smokies and neither of them are on the way to any of the lakes I go to, well one is but getting my truck and trailer in there to fill up is a pain in the butt, so BP it is.

 

[richie rich]

Doc, Ive used Techron in the car like every 50,000 just for the hell of it as a maintenance to do, not that I was having problems....250K later with no issues......and I've never used ring free whatsoever in my Yammi 2S.....Stabil or Startron every fill up for the fuel stabilization and decarb on the years first fill up and thats it.....valve tec gas, Racor filters and Amsoil 2S oil..thats it.......what is the concentration % of store bought Techron vs Ring Free.....and if you don't notice a difference, why bother using it anyways? I hear some of the newer oils like Evinrude XD100 or even Quicksilver have a ring free type additive already in it?

 

[Doc Stressor]

If you use Valvtec gas, you probably don't need Ringfree. Their additive package is supposed to increase the detergent level as well as stabilize the fuel.

It's really hard to know what's in the various additive packages. A lot has been published on Techron in Chevron's patent applications and technical papers from their labs. You have to pretty much go by people's experiences with the other stuff. Valvtec has a good reputation.

Here is a list of the latest Top Tier gasoline brands:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Road Ranger
CountryMark
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada

Note that Exxon/Mobile and BP/Amoco aren't on the list.

I hear some of the newer oils like Evinrude XD100 or even Quicksilver have a ring free type additive already in it?

I've heard that same rumor. It would make sense for the manufacturers to add extra detergents and stabilizers in their high end 2-stroke oils.

You wouldn't expect to see the benefits of using better fuel or additives like Ringfree until and engine gets older and has a good number of hours. My guess is that Yamaha wants us to use Ringfree since they warranty their engines for up to 6 years. They'll see fewer warranty problems if people use Ringfree.

 

[Strikezone]

I am a big believer in using Ringfree in my Yamaha 2s. 1 ounce per gallon used as a preventative measure doesn't add much to the cost of running the motor. It only adds $35-40 for over 300 gallons of fuel.

For what it's worth the Chevy service manager told me that I should run a fuel system cleaner every 3000-5000 miles in my Tahoe and he recommended Techtron as the best one to use.

 

[GW VOYAGER]

My question is the BP stations where I live have a sign that say "NO ETHANOL" soooooo which is best, run fuel with ethanol that is top tier or run ethanol free fuel which is not top tier?
Also I traveled 80 miles round trip to my job for about 2 years same route 5 days a week and I found I got better mileage with the BP fuel.
I'm not trying to start anything here I'm just asking the question.
Another question is does the top tier fuels need the additives to help with the ethanol in their fuel?

 

[Strikezone]

I would choose ethanol free fuel and adding Ringfree. The ethanol free gas to avoid the moisture problems and ringfree to combat carbon buildup. Keep in mind that these are two different issues.

 

[Doc Stressor]

I would choose ethanol free fuel and adding Ringfree.

That's what I do. Adding Ringfree makes any fuel equivalent to or better than the Top Tier brands. That's the point of Yamaha and Mercury's recommendation.

I attended a Yamaha maintenance seminar last week where they stressed using non-ethanol fuel wherever possible. They said that 75% of their engine repair work last year was related to ethanol fuel.

I also use marine StaBil at the lowest recommended dosage.

1 ounce per gallon used as a preventative measure doesn't add much to the cost of running the motor.

You only need 1 ounce per 10 gallons of fuel. The extra PEA won't hurt a 2-stroke, but if you use that high a dose with 4-stroke engines, you would need to change the oil more often.

 

[CJBROWN]

Ringfree was developed for the HPDI to eliminate fouling of the O2 sensors. It works well, and does everything intended. It made sense to recommend it for the four strokes too, just to keep everything clean in the fuel system and to help eliminate carbon build up on piston, rings, and valves.

Because it's proprietary they've jacked the price to the moon. BTW, most parts sold from the manufacturer are marked up three or four times. So if they're selling it for $40 it's probably costing them $10 to have it made.

I ran Amsoil PI or 'performance improver'. Consider it as a substitute - great stuff at a fraction of the cost. At 300 hours on my motor, the tops of the pistons were clean - you can peer in with a flashlight through the spark plug hole.