How does beam affect ride?

[luckydude]

As you might know, I have a 228. I some rides in a friend's 271 Canyon and that convinced me I wanted a bigger boat, I like the walk around, so Marlin it is.
Or so I thought. Another friend and I were out in our boats yesterday, I in a 228, he in a 300 Marlin. Conditions were supposed to be great, 3'@9s with low winds but it was lumpy. The ride back my boat varied from 17-26mph and it was unpleasant whenever I was on plane. I asked my Marlin buddy how fast he
came home and he said 3700rpm & 23mph. And he said it was a rough ride.

That's giving me enormous pause. My single reason for upgrading is comfort in less than ideal conditions (because my ocean is pretty much always less than ideal, flat days are really rare).

I did a 53 mile ride home in the 271 at 24 knots (28mph) in 7'@11s and it was fine. It was a smoother ocean, yeah, bigger swells but it wasn't as lumpy.

So now I'm wondering and thinking. The 271 has a 9'6" beam, the Marlin 10'7" - does that make a big difference? I ask because if the Marlin isn't a night and day difference in terms of ride in chop and slop, then why upgrade?

The weird thing is that my Marlin buddy got a 208 first and he told me he's been in conditions that would have been tough to keep the 208 on plane and the Marlin is zipping along at 30mph with comfort.

My sole reason for upgrading is comfort. That's it, all the bells and whistles a modern Marlin can have, yeah, those are nice, but they mean nothing to me if I get more or less the same number of days fishing in the 228 as the Marlin.

Anyone have any insight?

 

[glacierbaze]

What he considers a rough ride in a Marlin might not be the same as your impression if you were his passenger. How many hours/days have you spent in a Marlin before ordering one?
To answer your question, beam itself is not as critical to a smooth offshore ride as deadrise is.
Parker makes a couple of models which are basically the same boat, but with different bottoms, mod V and deep V. The deep V always rides better in rough water, although they are tender in a beam sea, and they rock more at anchor.

Another question, have you ever let another experienced boater drive your boat, with you on board?

 

[Fishermanbb]

Numerous factors here including how he was running the boat (Trim, tabs, etc.)…..However…..Without question the Marlin will be night and day difference from your boat. Beam smooths out the ride in a head sea and , depending on the hull design, can also smooth out the ride in a beam sea….BUT, there can be more of a “Snap” with a beam sea……However, the Marlin will make the 228 feel like a washing machine. Two totally different boats.

 

[luckydude]

What he considers a rough ride in a Marlin might not be the same as your impression if you were his passenger. How many hours/days have you spent in a Marlin before ordering one?

Well, it's not as bad as when I bought the 228 without having driven it, but it's pretty bad. Just one nice day ride with my buddy.
I just assumed that if the ride was great in a 271 then it would be that much better in 300. Perhaps I've made an ass out of u and me.

I'm just trying to figure stuff out, I've got some time (I think) where I can back out of the deal if it is not for me. But another
guy on this forum, Shannon C, has a Marlin, is local, he called me and said I'd love it. I'm trying to figure out if I'd love it for the reason I care about, which is 100% how it rides it slop. It blew my mind when Gary said he came in at 23mph.

I think I need to see if I can get on a Marlin in somewhat shitty conditions.

 

[glacierbaze]

Definately. FWIW, I never rode on a 228 before I bought mine, either, but I had the same hull in another boat, it was used, and it cost less than 10% of a new Marlin

 

[luckydude]

What he considers a rough ride in a Marlin might not be the same as your impression if you were his passenger. How many hours/days have you spent in a Marlin before ordering one?
To answer your question, beam itself is not as critical to a smooth offshore ride as deadrise is.
Parker makes a couple of models which are basically the same boat, but with different bottoms, mod V and deep V. The deep V always rides better in rough water, although they are tender in a beam sea, and they rock more at anchor.

Another question, have you ever let another experienced boater drive your boat, with you on board?

Yes, my buddy Barry has 16 years of running a Triumph. But those are very different, very forgiving hulls.
It's hard to convey my level of experience but I've something like 1300 miles on my main engine. When I
started, I couldn't predict which swells will launch me, now I get it right about 50% of the time. Another
data point, when I'm running the boat, I'm watching the ocean, and my hand is on the throttle all the time.
If I take my eyes off the ocean for even a second, the ride instantly gets way, way worse. I have a digital
(aka super responsive, no flat spot) throttle and I'm constantly adjusting for the swells.

I wouldn't say I'm Mr Experienced but the difference between when I started and where I am now is night
and day. I haven't ridden with anyone who can run the boat better than I can but we're in COVID, I haven't
had that many people on the boat.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Ride. That means alot of things.
Beam has to be considered in relation to length and weight and deadrise and speed and layout and design

Given the exact same hull, a center console will "ride" better (only for the two guys at the helm) than any other layout because the helm is positioned for that...unless by "ride" you mean you don't want to get wet.... The Canyon is a center console.

Longer, wider, heavier boats ride better in the sense that they are larger in comparison to the waves than a smaller boat. Waves that make a smaller, narrower boat pitch and roll have to be bigger to have the same effect on a bigger boat.

Don't overthink it.

The difference between a 271 and a Marlin is not just the beam. Do you want a cabin? Dry ride? Room?

Go for a ride on the 271 on a snotty day and don't sit in a helm chair. tell me how the ride is.


OH...You will absolutely have dozens more fishable days in a 30 footer. period.

 

[luckydude]

Ride. That means alot of things.

Go for a ride on the 271 on a snotty day and don't sit in a helm chair. tell me how the ride is.

I fish the Pacific out of Santa Cruz. It's almost always snotty out there. At the end of the day, I'm tired and I want to go home as fast as possible. My biggest complaint with the 228, other than that damn bar right in my line of sight, is that it doesn't stay on plane below about 20mph in sloppy conditions. So I'm faced with go home at 16-18mph getting crap gas mileage or go home at 21-24mph and get the shit pounded out of you as the boat launches over and over. That's what I mean about ride.

When I went home in the 271, it was 53 miles on auto pilot at 24 knots in 7@11 seas. It launched maybe 3 times. If I were in my 228 and did that same ride home, I'd have to pull back on the throttle on *every* single swell to avoid launching. It would have easily doubled the amount of time for the same distance.

What I'm looking for is a fast, comfortable ride home on plane in snotty conditions. I know it is possible, the 271 can do it except it is a center console so we were soaked. Hence me looking at the Marlin.

 

[magicalbill]

Luck:

Beam enhances athwartship (side-to-side) stability while drifting.

It also makes for a rougher ride in the case of my previous Gulfstream, which is a 9' 3" beam. The Gulfstream rode rougher than my friends 258 Journey with an 8' 6" beam.

The Gulfstream rode rougher because of the wider footprint in the water. In the case of my current Marlin, I think it helps with overall stability and ride. It is a 10' 7" beam and a 30 ft boat-therefore it is not so "Bathtubby." as a 232 Gulfstream.

My Marlin is NOT a night and day ride difference from the Gulfstream. It's better, but anything over a 2 ft chop and it pounds. Grady-Whites do that. They are NOT Deep V performance boats. Their hulls are designed for a "compromise" in stability & ride, as others here have mentioned.

It will be better than your Seafarer, but you are still going to pound and roll. You also have to go slow if you don't want to get jounced and soaked-it's just the way it is. I think you are looking for something that is not attainable in a Grady. If you really want to go home fast in the Pacific, I would look at other options.

Before you buy:

1.) Grab a ride in a Regulator, Intrepid, Contender, Yellowfin; something that is a real Deep V. Maybe easier said than done, but you're spending a lot of money and fishing is your thing.

2.) Find a Marlin somewhere on your coast, put 50 gallons of fuel in it for the Captain and go for a ride. Be sure you'll be happy.

Crap...I still need to call you-I've been swamped.

 

[luckydude]

1.) Grab a ride in a Regulator, Intrepid, Contender, Yellowfin; something that is a real Deep V. Maybe easier said than done, but you're spending a lot of money and fishing is your thing.

Aren't those all East Coast boats? I have never heard of any of them out here. And I really would prefer to stay with Grady. I might consider a 271 with canvas wings on it to sort of be like a cabin. I personally don't care about a cabin at all, I do care about that nice warm helm.

 

[magicalbill]

They may be more prevalent on the East Coast, but are World-Wide, I'm pretty sure.

It's sounding to me like a Marlin has a bunch of stuff you won't use. I love every option on mine, but I don't fish, as you know. I have never been on a 271, but my guess is a Marlin would ride a little better, although I doubt the difference would be profound.

Grady has been marvelous to me. I would encourage you to stay with them; but given what you're after, a raucous deep V twin engine rig may suit you better, although it will have a significant athwartship beam roll while your drifting. If you want to cut seas going fast, a 24-degree deep V has no competitor that I have ever heard of.

 

[everwhom]

No expert here, but I read through: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877422893/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and, as I understand it, for running into a headsea, the longer and narrower the boat, the better.

I experienced this first hand when I spent a bunch of time on an Axopar 28 off Croatia. That is a long but very narrow boat and it performed amazingly well slicing through the waves in a head sea. Of course a narrower boat will roll more in beam sea and on the drift, but hull shape and deadrise also plays equally important roles.

 

[glacierbaze]

"If you want to cut seas going fast, a 24-degree deep V has no competitor that I have ever heard of."

Well, there is Freeman...

 

[magicalbill]

I've read that the Freemans are really something; Don't know anyone that owns one though.

 

[hooked on Grady]

bottom line, bigger is better here. Like skunk said dry versus wet and cold. making better time means people are getting wet from spray or worse. your good but no hiding for your guests. Marlin, my $.02.

 

[blindmullet]

I've read that the Freemans are really something; Don't know anyone that owns one though.

The Freeman is in a different class. The speed and fishing platform is on another level. I was on a YF hybrid and the small Freeman walked us.

 

[luckydude]

OK, I am learning. Tell me if this is correct: for a fast ride home in slop, I want the most weight and the most narrow boat I can find.
I also love the helm of the walk arounds, I don't want a center console, it's cold where I fish.

So what about the Freedom 275? It's a little light but it has an 8.5 foot beam on a 27 foot boat. 285 looks like 1500 pounds heavier but a foot wider beam.

In case it isn't clear, I think it is but some times you have to say it a bunch, all I care about is a fast ride home in the slop and a warm helm.
I really would like to stay with Grady, I admire their tag line, something about attention to detail. They make nice boats.

 

[magicalbill]

bottom line, bigger is better here. Like skunk said dry versus wet and cold. making better time means people are getting wet from spray or worse. your good but no hiding for your guests. Marlin, my $.02.

Generally yes, but in Lucky's case bigger may not be good enough to meet his expectations. That's what we're debating here.

 

[family affair]

Looks like what you really need is an F26 Tigercat! Too bad they stopped making them. If you want to go fast in chop, nothing will outperform a cat. However, you need to understand how to run them. Your limited experience might not be a good fit. See if anyone in your area has a 30' Worldcat to experience.
As others mentioned, the operator has a lot to do with performance. I've watched enough Haulover inlet videos to know that even $1m+ of cc doesn't buy skill!
My 270 only has 18⁰ of deadrise, but has a very sharp entry. Trimming the engines in and a little tab down allows the boat to punch through nasty 3' Erie chop at 23-27 mph. A marlin should be even better under most circumstances, but there may be smaller boats that will meet your needs as well or better.

 

[magicalbill]

Family has a good point about the Tigercat, although they are not common and finding a decent one may be difficult.